Keir Starmer

[Bjornebye]

24 minutes ago, Brownie said:

The point still stands, whether you were taking the piss or actually think that. Plenty do and it is a big part of the problem.

I don't think its 100% correct for either side I was taking the piss because of reactions to generalisations this morning. A big enough percentage are though. "Get em out!" I prefer to be in the "woke" remain camp. 

[Brownie]

8 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't think its 100% correct for either side I was taking the piss because of reactions to generalisations this morning. A big enough percentage are though. "Get em out!" I prefer to be in the "woke" remain camp. 

I just think it’s far too simple and doesn’t get to the root of the problem. There will be pricks on either side but the vast majority of people don’t fall into those categories.

 

The fact is, people don’t like their perceived democracy being taken for granted.

 

My theory is that the “Yes” voters in Scotland and the “Leave” voters in the rest of the UK are of the same view. You betrayed us and we’ll never vote for you again.

 

Labour are finished. There is no way back.

[Jairzinho]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

 

 

Methinks

 

[Gnasher]

24 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I don't think its 100% correct for either side I was taking the piss because of reactions to generalisations this morning. A big enough percentage are though. "Get em out!" I prefer to be in the "woke" remain camp. 

All good to be woke and care for your fellow man, nothing wrong in that. The problem for the Labour party is free movement has thrown up issues up and down the country. A lot of working class young businesses and workers are competing with situations like below or like the cheap overseas labour issues. 

 

If this was the 60s 70s 80s the labour party would be piciting to close places like below down. Now it seems the labour party is not on the average man on the streets side. 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cumbria-56988881

 

Edit. If you're working six days a week across the road from that operation in a sandwich shop or something it's likely you are going to ask yourself questions about the tax free money changing hands. Forty years ago the Labour party would be on your side but l not now and it's one reason why Labour are losing working class votes.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

All good to be woke and care for your fellow man, nothing wrong in that. The problem for the Labour party is free movement has thrown up issues up and down the country. A lot of working class young businesses and workers are competing with situations like below or like the cheap overseas labour issues. 

 

If this was the 60s 70s 80s the labour party would be piciting to close places like below down. Now it seems the labour party is not on the average man on the streets side. 

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cumbria-56988881

I hate to be pedantic* but there's no need to picket places that are breaking the law: as that link suggests, you get them closed down by reporting them.

 

(Also, of course, in the Sixties a good many average men in the street - grassroots trade unionists - supported Enoch Powell.  Fortunately, there were others in the Labour movement who were more "woke" than that.)

 

The real problem with immigration (in terms of its impact on low-paid working class people and on electoral results) is the fact that bosses are legally permitted to undercut local workers.  Nobody is voting for the Government because they think the Government is too weak on slavery: nor is anyone looking at those poor fuckers in the car washes and thinking "I wish I had that job". Some people have had their jobs and wages affected by people who are legally exploited and word has gone round that the forrins are coming for everybody's job. This could and should have been stopped when Labour were in power, by giving migrant workers equal rights, but the rich cunts who benefit from exploitation dazzled them with shiny things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*This is a lie. I love being pedantic. 

[Bruce Spanner]

27 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Surprised the outrage hasn’t been more vociferous in truth, s’pose people have other things on their mind.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I hate to be pedantic* but there's no need to picket places that are breaking the law: as that link suggests, you get them closed down by reporting them.

 

(Also, of course, in the Sixties a good many average men in the street - grassroots trade unionists - supported Enoch Powell.  Fortunately, there were others in the Labour movement who were more "woke" than that.)

 

The real problem with immigration (in terms of its impact on low-paid working class people and on electoral results) is the fact that bosses are legally permitted to undercut local workers.  Nobody is voting for the Government because they think the Government is too weak on slavery: nor is anyone looking at those poor fuckers in the car washes and thinking "I wish I had that job". Some people have had their jobs and wages affected by people who are legally exploited and word has gone round that the forrins are coming for everybody's job. This could and should have been stopped when Labour were in power, by giving migrant workers equal rights, but the rich cunts who benefit from exploitation dazzled them with shiny things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*This is a lie. I love being pedantic. 

We know bosses are permitted to cut wages angry, we know, we know, we know. It's not just about that though is it? You know it's not. It's about Labours cowardly ineffective position where they are terrified to call a cunt a cunt. It's not that fucking hard, an obvious example; if you fly a plane full of Romanias in to pick fruit during a pandemic you're a cunt, so why dosnt the Labour party say it? Because they support it.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

We know bosses are permitted to cut wages angry, we know, we know, we know. It's not just about that though is it? You know it's not. It's about Labours cowardly ineffective position where they are terrified to call a cunt a cunt. It's not that fucking hard, an obvious example; if you fly a plane full of Romanias in to pick fruit during a pandemic you're a cunt, so why dosnt the Labour party say it? Because they support it.

We're almost in agreement here. 

 

Yes, they absolutely should call a cunt a cunt. The important thing is to stop people pointing fingers at the exploited migrant workers and get them pointing fingers at the exploitative bosses. Instead of using the Tory/UKIP language of controlling and limiting immigration  (the kind of language which incites racism and xenophobia) they need to have proposals to manage immigration in a way that works best for everyone  (except the exploitative cunts).

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

A very spiky and flustered interview from Starmer on the BBC just then. Didn't really say much, dodged a few questions and looked a bit red in the face. 

 

Any leader of any party deserves more than 12 months to set the party in the direction they want it to go. But, Starmer needs to show drastic improvement and fast. And give the electorate just a hint of a clue about what direction the party will go under his tenure. 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

We're almost in agreement here. 

 

Yes, they absolutely should call a cunt a cunt. The important thing is to stop people pointing fingers at the exploited migrant workers and get them pointing fingers at the exploitative bosses. Instead of using the Tory/UKIP language of controlling and limiting immigration  (the kind of language which incites racism and xenophobia) they need to have proposals to manage immigration in a way that works best for everyone  (except the exploitative cunts).

Sorry angry it's about time the Labour party do start pointing fingers. Fingers at fucking everyone who fuck up our communities, if that be class A drug dealers, gangmasters, traffickers, war lords, people traffickers, all of em, time for Labour to get off the fucking fence and stick up for the poor and working class in this country, if that means upsetting a few groups good, fuck em. I'm talking about cunts who make massive money putting terrified people on boats and in backs of vans, I'm talking about people traffickers bringing smack from Turkey, prostitution form Easten Europe, farm workers from Romania

 

Labour needs to connect with its core base and start pointing a few fingers, raising a few home truths and calling a cunt a cunt.

 

Who the fuck deals with these poor people when they need medical assistance? Or need to go to hospital? Or need housing? Or need the police? Or need interpretation? Or need a lawyer?  I'll tell you, EX Labour voters.

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Sorry angry it's about time the Labour party do start pointing fingers. Fingers at fucking everyone who fuck up our communities, if that be class A drug dealers, gangmasters, traffickers, war lords, people traffickers, all of em, time for Labour to get off the fucking fence and stick up for the poor and working class in this country, if that means upsetting a few groups good, fuck em. I'm talking about cunts who make massive money putting terrified people on boats and in backs of vans, I'm talking about people traffickers bringing smack from Turkey, prostitution form Easten Europe, farm workers from Romania

 

Labour needs to connect with its core base and start pointing a few fingers, raising a few home truths and calling a cunt a cunt.

 

Who the fuck deals with these poor people when they need medical assistance? Or need to go to hospital? Or need housing? Or need the police? Or need interpretation? Or need a lawyer?  I'll tell you, EX Labour voters.

Ex labour voters like these?

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Focus group Labour is worse than corbyns meek and mild shite. Forget power just be an opposition for now, be a voice for millions who are just sat there actually thinking how the fuck are the tories just getting away with this shit. Every single PMQs bring up cronyism corruption, give him shit! shout at the speaker "any fucking chance of getting the questions I asked answered or is this entire establishment a charade" stop playing this tradition politics shite against a party that doesn't care about truth or rules. Be angry and demand better for the people of the country who gives a fuck how the mail reports it, double down use social media. Labour MPs actually tweet facts about the corruption rather than us having to read some independent journalists thread highlighting shit an opposition should be screaming from the roof. The privileged and pampered Tories have no fucking clue what life is like for most people, take the piss out of them. Focus on Boris, his every cheat his every provable lie and pick at it like an old scab, just keep on and on never let his lies be lost in the next day's news. Just go for these pricks.

 

Aspirations can come in the future, give youth skills, the vulnerable a safety net say you'll change education  to actually reflect the modern world. How the fuck is finance not part of the school curriculum. Money dominates everything yet were not educated on personal finances, investments how currency works, what's the best thing to do when you begin to earn. 

 

I look at Labour and think what's the point, it's not even an anyone but the tories vote anymore because they can't beat them.

[Strontium]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Ex labour voters like these?

 

 

 

I've been wondering for a while now how often Labour could keep warning about the NHS being doomed under the Tories before it started to lose its impact. Looks like I have my answer.

 

This is deeply worrying for the party. If Labour doesn't have the NHS, what does it have?

[Gnasher]

46 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

A very spiky and flustered interview from Starmer on the BBC just then. Didn't really say much, dodged a few questions and looked a bit red in the face. 

 

Any leader of any party deserves more than 12 months to set the party in the direction they want it to go. But, Starmer needs to show drastic improvement and fast. And give the electorate just a hint of a clue about what direction the party will go under his tenure. 

I'm guessing his bright new vision will involve Ruth Smeeth or some such person; Starmer wheeled out Smeeth before for some strange reason and then they're  probably going to make a firm declaration on the issue that's bothering approx no one in Britain, and once they've got rid of the problem that no one sees or gives a fuck about in Britain then they gonna check under the bed of every man woman and child in this country to protect them against these anti semitic fuckers who only bar a few people on twitter are remotely concerned about. Vote winner.

[Jairzinho]

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I've been wondering for a while now how often Labour could keep warning about the NHS being doomed under the Tories before it started to lose its impact. Looks like I have my answer.

 

This is deeply worrying for the party. If Labour doesn't have the NHS, what does it have?

Bad aids?

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I've been wondering for a while now how often Labour could keep warning about the NHS being doomed under the Tories before it started to lose its impact. Looks like I have my answer.

 

This is deeply worrying for the party. If Labour doesn't have the NHS, what does it have?

Very true Stronts.  It seems to have also lost the youth vote, the Asian vote, the working class vote and obviously the Scottish vote.

 

All the above appear to be true.

 

Labour are now praying on regaining the thespian vote of people like Eddie Marsan and the freedom for gay dolphin lovers vote to have something to cling onto.

[A Red]

31 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I've been wondering for a while now how often Labour could keep warning about the NHS being doomed under the Tories before it started to lose its impact. Looks like I have my answer.

 

This is deeply worrying for the party. If Labour doesn't have the NHS, what does it have?

This what I was alluding to in the election thread. People need the NHS and know that no government is going to get rid of it. Theres no point banging on about its safer under one party or the other, its boring and not a vote winner. Like I said it needs sales people to head up the policy and strategy units, not someone with a degree in politics that lives in Islington.

 

 

[A Red]

3 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Well I was being sarcastic. I did think that the Royal Family part would set your senses off though. You didn't disappoint. 

Another witticism, its my lucky day

[Strontium]

7 minutes ago, A Red said:

This what I was alluding to in the election thread. People need the NHS and know that no government is going to get rid of it. Theres no point banging on about its safer under one party or the other, its boring and not a vote winner. Like I said it needs sales people to head up the policy and strategy units, not someone with a degree in politics that lives in Islington.

 

It won votes for a while. But eventually it loses its impact. 

 

[Gnasher]

Looks like Len Mclusky is the next one in the sights of the burn the socialist brigade,

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Sorry angry it's about time the Labour party do start pointing fingers. Fingers at fucking everyone who fuck up our communities, if that be class A drug dealers, gangmasters, traffickers, war lords, people traffickers, all of em, time for Labour to get off the fucking fence and stick up for the poor and working class in this country, if that means upsetting a few groups good, fuck em. I'm talking about cunts who make massive money putting terrified people on boats and in backs of vans, I'm talking about people traffickers bringing smack from Turkey, prostitution form Easten Europe, farm workers from Romania

 

Labour needs to connect with its core base and start pointing a few fingers, raising a few home truths and calling a cunt a cunt.

 

Who the fuck deals with these poor people when they need medical assistance? Or need to go to hospital? Or need housing? Or need the police? Or need interpretation? Or need a lawyer?  I'll tell you, EX Labour voters.

Mate, you're trying to pick an argument where there isn't one. I agree they need to point fingers at cunts; but too often they point fingers at the victims of cunts.  When they try to play that game, it reinforces the (completely false) idea that migrant workers are a burden and that's just doing the Tories' work for them.

 

Blame the Etonians, not the Romanians!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I've been wondering for a while now how often Labour could keep warning about the NHS being doomed under the Tories before it started to lose its impact. Looks like I have my answer.

 

This is deeply worrying for the party. If Labour doesn't have the NHS, what does it have?

The worrying thing is that privatisation really is continuing apace. It's all tied up in restructuring and reform, though, so it's hard to see it for what it is.

[Scooby Dudek]

We know they have a history of being honest and upfront in everything they do. Next you'll be telling us there is no border down the Irish sea. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-trade-deal-protections-sell-off-b1789867.html

 

Indeed... 

 

 

Conservative MPs have ripped out an amendment to the government's trade bill to prevent the NHS being sold off or undermined by the government's trade deals with other countries.

The House of Lords had last month inserted a clause banning any agreement that “undermines or restricts” the UK's ability to provide “a comprehensive publicly funded health service free at the point of delivery”.

 

The amendment also restricted “the sale of patient data” and the government's ability to control drug prices.

 

But in a vote on Tuesday night MPs rejected the amendment by 357 votes to 266, with no Tory MPs backing the motion. The governing party's MPs were the only ones to vote against the protections.

Trade Minister Greg Hands said there was no need to protect the health service with legislation because “the NHS is not and never will be for sale". He characterised such claims as "offensive and absurd".

 

But government ministers made similar promises not to undermine workers' rights before Brexit, only to move to water down EU rules on rest breaks, holiday pay, and overtime.

 

US officials and businesses have repeatedly said that the NHS must be "on the table" in trade talks, with US pharmaceutical companies and healthcare businesses eyeing the UK health market as a source of profit.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

19 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Mate, you're trying to pick an argument where there isn't one. I agree they need to point fingers at cunts; but too often they point fingers at the victims of cunts.  When they try to play that game, it reinforces the (completely false) idea that migrant workers are a burden and that's just doing the Tories' work for them.

 

Blame the Etonians, not the Romanians!

I'm not blaming the Romanians, I'm blaming the people in the Labour party, where was the outrage by Labour when rich landowners flew in poor people from Romania to do menial work? Did you protest? Or did you think its all well and good eu free movement blah blah blah?

 

Edit, I know it sounds hard hearted angry but most of them poor Romanians can't even vote and if they could vote I'd guess the tory mantra of free enterprise might be right up their street.

[Gnasher]

Masons right, throwing the left under the bus has proved a disastrous policy. 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/keir-starmer-must-face-truth-he-needs-left-win