Keir Starmer

[skend04]

He needs to set out his policies and then lead on those. It's all just very reactionary at the minute, it's like he's there just to provide passing comments on the Tories and not rock the boat, and he's forgotten he's the leader of the opposition. 

 

Plus, I'm sure there's a BMG poll out yesterday or today showing that it's back to a couple of points difference, which is weird. Might have been reading something else or something old there and I'm sure I'll be corrected in due course.

[skend04]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-covid-vaccine-bmg-poll-b1821212.html

 

I had read right but will add I'm not sure if it's an official poll or just a newspaper one.

[sir roger]

Thought that Thomas-Symonds did ok on immigration on Sky by not telling Boulton to fuck off.

 

Intelligent responses not listened to by the human slug. I do think it's a shame we don't have appear to have anybody sharp with a bit of wit , as making them look stupid is the only thing that upsets these Tory arselickers.

[Scooby Dudek]

2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Thought that Thomas-Symonds did ok on immigration on Sky by not telling Boulton to fuck off.

 

Intelligent responses not listened to by the human slug. I do think it's a shame we don't have appear to have anybody sharp with a bit of wit , as making them look stupid is the only thing that upsets these Tory arselickers.

Didn't see the interview but agree with the last paragraph. No nuance allowed, so show them up for the idiots that they are.

[sir roger]

He tried to make everything about small boats coming in from France and came across like a Daily Mail front page whileThomas-Symonds had to say three times that the validity of a claim has absolutely nothing to do with how you get here , but was ignored by Boulton who  had the demeanour of a manatee that wanted to curl up and go asleep after a morning feed 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Are these claims that Starmer has backed the government's decision to appoint commissioners to run Liverpool CC true? 

 

If so, he might just achieve the impossible of losing the "red rosette on a monkey" backing that exists in the city. 

He's fucking awful. 

[Bruce Spanner]

3 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Are these claims that Starmer has backed the government's decision to appoint commissioners to run Liverpool CC true? 

 

If so, he might just achieve the impossible of losing the "red rosette on a monkey" backing that exists in the city. 

He's fucking awful. 

 

The Times ran with it this morning, nothing else released, so we'll have to wait and see.

 

If it is though it's dereliction of duty and unforgivable, if what is suggested is being planned is enacted.

[RedKnight]

I have no idea what Starmer's plan is but it looks fucking shit from here. A bit like altering casting/plots to appeal to people who will never see your movie anyway, he appears to be pandering to people who will never vote for him.

[Vincent Vega]

 

[Scooby Dudek]

6 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

 

If the shit hits the fan it will be interesting to hear the opinions of the local M.P.s in relation to the official Labour line.

[Vincent Vega]

1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

If the shit hits the fan it will be interesting to hear the opinions of the local M.P.s in relation to the official Labour line.

I suspect Dan Carden and Ian Byrne won’t be afraid to tell us what they’re thinking.

[Scooby Dudek]

2 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

I suspect Dan Carden and Ian Byrne won’t be afraid to tell us what they’re thinking.

That's my thinking as well.

[Anubis]

16 hours ago, sir roger said:

If the long knives come for Starmer they will be held by centrist and rght wing hands , not the media bogey men like McCluskey.

[The Guest]

2 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

(1) The Elites', who are these, Ashworth, Reynolds, Nandy, or is there a shadowy organistation pulling these 'neo-liberal' strings? I've had a drink with two of the above and if they're part of some NWO/Illuminate then they need better recruitment. Or, are these 'elites' a shadowy cabal of people who are looking to control a party that doesn't fucking win elections, and if so why?

 

If so I ask you to what end?

 

Is it to consolidate power and remove rights and regulations, if so why bother with carving up Labour intrinsically linked to the unions and reliant on their money, just join the Tories, their grassroots has less of a problem with this stuff, and cut out all the hard work. I mean if they were smart enough to usurp a political organisation, disrupt the discourse and take and consolidate power you're smart enough to fill out a tory MP election application, right?

 

This is all very Trump sounding, it's Ok to admit you've been suckered in by populist rhetoric. There are factions, yes, we agree, these factions vie for power, we agree, one of these factions, despite evidence showing that there are far more factions/groups/concerns than just a simple binary, that I see and you don't, is a malicious, mendacious cause for the destruction of the UK, that's where we disagree. You've opted for binary, us Vs them rhetoric which under inspection doesn't stand up and is a key indicator of confirmation bias/echo chamber 'logic', everything is distilled in to an us Vs them as it's them simpler to produce consistency in the mind. Are you right about policy, yes and no, as you'll cherry pick that which supports and ignore that which challenges. You are looking for victory in the mind where the isn't one, only agreements' and disagreements'. It makes you come across as a demented cunt who has no reason for alternative ideas as you've found yours and you're sticking with them. Are ‘they’ adopting more conservative fiscal policy, yes, do I agree not particularly, is it possible there is a middle ground, yes. My economics isn’t great, only a few courses at university, but even I know this country is in a fucking state and the idea of lending our way out of things isn't sound fiscal policy, but ‘socialism’ they’ll cry... 

 

This dialogue/rhetoric about shady elites is as old as time and there's never not a line of people queuing up to swallow it. There are people running the world, yes, there are people leaning on these people, there are people leaning on those people. That's the game, you can't change shit without understanding and acting on that and no amount of screaming in to the void will change that. The world exists as it is at this moment, it is the result trial and error, misjudgment and calamity, truth, reason and lies.

 

(2)  The appeal to moral authority/superiority. 'Only I know the real truth' and everybody else is wrong? No. You have your version of truth which has been through so many bias confirming filters that you can no longer accept that anything other than what you think is true is true, it's not. It has seeds of truth which bloom in to diseased flowers as you're giving them the wrong nutrients. Looking for evidence to prove yourself right and making sure others are wrong and you 'win'.  

 

And, please before you start, you know fuck all about me, what I do, what I support, what I campaign for or what I want to see, so kindly go fuck yourself, you haughty prick. I'm sure others will follow me in saying this. Another example of echo chamber bias group think, almost messianistic, wouldn't you agree, Oh Saviour?  

 

(3)  Disaster projecting, sow fear in the mind and the mind seeks salvation. You are just wrong here. What you're effectively saying is that whatever happens disaster follows and you'll produce evidence which confirms this, but obscure/ignore evidence which does not. So the argument runs that whatever the Tories do, this current iteration, the worst group of spivs ever, Labour would do worse and be worse? So they have hijacked the party to create a neoliberal system to do what exactly, be more like the party that is currently in power and is very good at keeping power and making sure their friends get paid? Again, why if they are so smart do they lose elections, elect unelectable leaders, balls everything up when they could just as easily join the Tories and be done with the pretense? It's most likely we're a bit shit at this, that people don't follow our message and the Tories are better equipped and supported to win elections/power.  

 

You're saying everyone, through NEC, MP's, to councilors etc are in on this? Despite Momentum stuffing councils and putting forward candidates for election, some of whom were successful despite the huge losses, you're saying that the neoliberal agenda is being pushed through by these incompetents cunts, or are people pulling the strings from afar, again delving in to conspiracy territory. I'd rather risk crony capitalism as at least the Tories can fulfil their end of the bargain and see through an idea. 

 

(4) Saviour, Oh Saviour! He wasn't. All depends how you define left wing I assume as it's a board fucking church, but to say 'never have a left wing leader again' shows the arrogance and the claim of ownership by the zealots. The reason we won't have another 'left wing' government is because it's rejected at election times, you can argue the reasons for this until the sun sets on humanity, but it won't and doesn't change a thing. The nation is introverted, right leaning and doesn't in the main, give a fuck about their fellow man. And 'us' as the left do not have a divine right to save these people. If you believe they need saving it just shows the arrogance of 'the left' trying to protect and save these exploited, put upon souls.

 

Maybe, just maybe they are selfish cunts who can't see the wood for the trees, but it's not our right to save them, we can only show them and try to convince them of our vision. To say that it was a last chance limits the argument. you are saying that all hope is gone and that this was 'the time' and only now, again falling back on to disaster tropes favoured by the extreme end of support to justify their, perceived, suffering.  

 

(5) 'I'm being persecuted'? That's assuming you are 'the left' and not one of many, with at times, contradictory beliefs. Oh, woe is fucking me, I'm being eradicated, pushed aside, shunned. Nothing but more rhetorical annihilation nonsense. You are being pushed as there's a new leader, democratically elected, like the last one, who's views, admittedly he's not doing well at setting out, you don't agree with. Now if this is because you disagree with them fine, I do as well, but you can't say that this has been thrust upon you and then refuse others the right to say Corbyn was thrust on them as both were democratically elected and Corbyn preferred heir was brushed aside as members, it would seem, needed a break form what had gone before, two seismic election defeats. You say people were suckered in, but exactly the same can be said of the previous leader, he wasn't what people thought he was, he was just a projection of their hopes and was sadly disappointing as leader.  

 

(6) You are creating a conspiracy to justify your anger at the current situation and you have found like minded people who will substantiate/further your thinking. That is literally the definition of a conspiracy cycle.  

 

By pulling at threads to find hidden meaning and motives you are proving to yourself that it's worth pulling at another thread.  

 

The truth is we're just shit at this, the Tories are better. Starmer isn't looking good, but he's the democratically elected leader and he will get my support until I can no longer justify it, like Corbyn, like Milliband, Brown and Blair before him. 

 

My patience isn't finite though. and it's being sorely tested. 

 

Now, you’ll come back with some ‘you’ll see’ or ‘well, if the playing field was level’ type arguments and you’ll produce articles to supports this, I in turn will give evidence to show that one is as guilty as the other, it gets nowhere as the dye is cast. 

I got a couple of paragraphs in but I can’t be arsed reading all that.  You’ve shown what a completely blind thick cunt you are in previous posts so it’s pretty pointless on the whole.  I said before there’s clearly intelligent people on here who got taken in by Starmer and the rights lies to gain permanent control back but you aren’t one of them.

 

The fact you can’t even see the benefit to rich economically right wing people taking control of the of the only opposition to the right wing party in this country is honestly dumbfounding.  It’s there in black and white that Thatchers greatest legacy was Tony Blair.  Keep wanking yourself off thinking anyone pointing this out to you is some tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.  This country is economically left wing and it should be a credible option at the ballot box every time but it isn’t.  Thick cunts like yourself with Stockholm syndrome do nothing to help the situation.

 

Look at how fucking laughable Starmer has been on policy and actually questioning the tories on nearly anything.  It’s because he and his puppet master think tanks are quite happy for the status quo to remain as it is.

[Bruce Spanner]

12 minutes ago, The Guest said:

I got a couple of paragraphs in but I can’t be arsed reading all that.  You’ve shown what a completely blind thick cunt you are in previous posts so it’s pretty pointless on the whole.  I said before there’s clearly intelligent people on here who got taken in by Starmer and the rights lies to gain permanent control back but you aren’t one of them.

 

The fact you can’t even see the benefit to rich economically right wing people taking control of the of the only opposition to the right wing party in this country is honestly dumbfounding.  It’s there in black and white that Thatchers greatest legacy was Tony Blair.  Keep wanking yourself off thinking anyone pointing this out to you is some tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist.  This country is economically left wing and it should be a credible option at the ballot box every time but it isn’t.  Thick cunts like yourself with Stockholm syndrome do nothing to help the situation.

 

Look at how fucking laughable Starmer has been on policy and actually questioning the tories on nearly anything.  It’s because he and his puppet master think tanks are quite happy for the status quo to remain as it is.

 

You say the nicest things!

 

I'm blushing over here.

[Neil G]

20 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

His tactic appears to be hoping Brexit and the economic fallout of Coronavirus are sufficiently atrocious. 

 

He doesn't seem to say anything...about anything. 

Roy Hodgson politics. Sit tight, take zero risks and pin everything on the other side fucking up. Just as painful to watch.

[Mudface]

1 hour ago, Neil G said:

Roy Hodgson politics. Sit tight, take zero risks and pin everything on the other side fucking up. Just as painful to watch.

Like a more tentative Milliband, and it worked so well for him...

[Jairzinho]

23 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Like a more tentative Milliband, and it worked so well for him...

A less likeable Miliband.

 

Ed was no leader, but he seems really sound.

 

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

A less likeable Miliband.

 

Ed was no leader, but he seems really sound.

 

Yeah, more than decent bloke, but he lost Scotland...

[Jairzinho]

7 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Yeah, more than decent bloke, but he lost Scotland...

It had been coming.

[Mudface]

3 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

It had been coming.

Aye, joining the Tories on the 'No' platform and somehow managing to appear more right wing than the friggin' SNP was a complete clusterfuck.

[Bruce Spanner]

11 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

A less likeable Miliband.

 

Ed was no leader, but he seems really sound.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Yeah, more than decent bloke, but he lost Scotland...

 

My wife worked for him very briefly, catering events, and she's convinced that anybody who would have met him would have voted for him.

 

Shame it's trial by headline in the UK.

[Jairzinho]

Just now, Mudface said:

Aye, joining the Tories on the 'No' platform and somehow managing to appear more right wing than the friggin' SNP was a complete clusterfuck.

And one I can't see ever being reversed.

 

 

[Jairzinho]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

 

My wife worked for him very briefly, catering events, and she's convinced that anybody who would have met him would have voted for him.

 

Shame it's trial by headline in millions of people in the UK are staggeringly thick cunts.

Yes, agreed.

[Mudface]

30 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

 

My wife worked for him very briefly, catering events, and she's convinced that anybody who would have met him would have voted for him.

 

Shame it's trial by headline in the UK.

 

Same with our local Labour branch, a few people had met him and seen him talk in person and were absolutely convinced he was the new Messiah, he was that good. I got daggers for voting for Burnham, and in retrospect he would probably have been a better choice, with Milliband looking to be leader about now.

 

28 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

And one I can't see ever being reversed.

No, it's gone for good. My local constituency used to be solid Labour, it's now a three way marginal with Labour usually in third. Scottish Labour is a complete mess, even worse than the wider party.