Keir Starmer

[Bruce Spanner 2,875]

1 minute ago, The Guest said:

That’s still wrong you complete muppet.  The CLP stands for a constituency Labour Party not the members of the whole party.  Honestly just stop digging, hold your hands up and admit you’re fucking thick and shouldn’t be involved in this conversation.

 

And now I’m a conspiracy theorist.  Brilliant.

Yeah, I fucked up, I’m doing too many things at the same time and arguing on the internet should be lowest on my to do list.

 

Thick though, nah.

 

Now keep peddling this blinked conspiracy about right wing infiltration, it’s really interestingly and doesn’t at all sound mad.

[The Guest 1,837]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Yeah, I fucked up, I’m doing too many things at the same time and arguing on the internet should be lowest on my to do list.

 

Thick though, nah.

 

Now keep peddling this blinked conspiracy about right wing infiltration, it’s really interestingly and doesn’t at all sound mad.

Yeah private finance in the NHS and schooling, introducing tuition and top up fees, deregulating banks, keeping largely the same income tax rates as Thatcher (removing the lower rate making it even less progressive), reducing corporation tax to the lowest in Europe giving the tories the opportunity to lower it to the one of the lowest in the world.  None of that right wing stuff happened under labour.  It’s a complete blinkered conspiracy theory.  You fucking muppet.

[Bruce Spanner 2,875]

29 minutes ago, The Guest said:

Yeah private finance in the NHS and schooling, introducing tuition and top up fees, deregulating banks, keeping largely the same income tax rates as Thatcher (removing the lower rate making it even less progressive), reducing corporation tax to the lowest in Europe giving the tories the opportunity to lower it to the one of the lowest in the world.  None of that right wing stuff happened under labour.  It’s a complete blinkered conspiracy theory.  You fucking muppet.

 

These are the right wing policies you selected to not identify.

 

National Minimum Wage

Welfare-to- Work programmes (New Deals)

Tax Credits (linked to earnings, loaded towards families)

Increases in Child Benefit

Investments in childcare

Increase in Income Support for pensioners and extra benefits e.g. winter fuel payments,

More generous second state pension for low earners.

Abolition of mortgage tax relief and Married Couples Tax Allowance.

Reduction in basic income tax rate, and increase in top tax rate (latter only from 2010/11) 

Child Benefit, Tax Credits (as above)

Extension of free part-time nursery education to all three and four year olds

National childcare strategy

Sure Start – integrated health, early education, play and parental support

Extension of parental leave and pay

Introduction of an Early Years Curriculum 

More capacity - (extra beds, staff, buildings, activities).

New NHS buildings programme.

National frameworks for quality standards.

Structural reorganisation: establishment of Primary Care Trusts/Foundation Trusts/Strategic Health Authorities. Payment by results. Patient Choice.

More emphasis on public health: e.g smoking ban, more screening 

Increase in school workforce: extra teachers and support staff

New school buildings programme

National strategies to improve quality and consistency of teaching

Performance management: targets and school closures

Curriculum change: introduction of more vocational options at GCSE

Every Child Matters

Guaranteed post-16 learning place and Educational Maintenance Allowance

Reform of higher education funding – variable fees, financed by income-contingent loans Deprived Neighbourhoods and Spatial Inequalities (You can claim back a large percentage of the fees paid in the form of a grant)

National Strategy for Neighbourhood Renewal

Housing Market Renewal and Decent Homes programme

New Deal for Communities

Targeted programmes across other spending areas eg Spearhead areas in health, Excellence in Cities in education, Sure Start 21

In-Work Credit provided a £40 a week bonus to lone parents.

 

Now, there we're some mistakes, some heinous and unforgivable ones, but to say this is a right wing agenda is absolutely baffling as this had us as the highest individual spend per capita on welfare in Europe.

[Gnasher 1,781]

 

 

 

 

[mattyq 2,012]

35 minutes ago, The Guest said:

I’m not saying they should lose every election.  I’m saying they shouldn’t be scared to lose an election standing on a left leaning platform.  Eventually the right wing party will have to take accountability for right wing ideas and policies because there’s an actual clear alternative in the opposition not just “more of the same” and “nothing fundamentally will change”.  4 years of opposition with a left wing leader being polluted by near enough the whole PLP is not long enough to turn the tide.  Johnson’s Tory party is not the fault of Corbyn.  It’s decades of having a right leaning opposition that’s enabled them to become what they are.

I'm sorry, mate, but this is nonsense

Maybe the Lab Party should get a little plaque made up for losing leaders that goes something like.. You don't need Government to be a Winner but he is a Winner.

Lab should be petrified of losing every election because it means the Tories will get back in... unless you're ok with a Tory Government... are you? 

If Lab stand on a manifesto that the Public hate and they get battered in the election that's not a good thing. In any way. It means there is a Tory Government and the Public think the Labour Party are bad dickheads

 

I agree that Johnson's Tory party is not the fault of Corbyn. 100% It's on the Tories

But the Tories getting elected is on Corbyn, absolutely. He was the Leader then he takes responsibility

[Jairzinho 23,085]

"Taking responsibility" Is a really stupid way of analysing the reasons for election results though. 

 

 

[AngryofTuebrook 18,302]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Comparisons between New Labour and Tory Lite are lazy too. I lived under the Tories, then under New Labour, then under the Tories again. Living under New Labour was quite considerably better. 

This is true.

Anyone who says "I can't vote Labour because they're just the same as the Tories" needs to be stripped to their undies and chucked in a nettle patch.

[Strontium Dog™ 8,561]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

The S*n stuff is shit but the constant fixation with Blair genuinely baffles me, it seems to have totally exploded under Corbyn. I don't remember Ed Miliband or Brown (!) being arsed about him, he also won an election after the Iraq War, so seemingly  the British public weren't that arsed either. 

 

I bet if you got a machine learning algorithm and went through a lot of Labour social media/blogs etc that support Corbyn, Blair would be the biggest name in that word cloud, far bigger than May, Cameron, Osborne, Clegg, Johnson and all the rest of it. A lot of the same people seem strangely fixated with Biden too. 

 

It's become trendy to bash him, but the fact remains he's the only Labour leader to win an election in my lifetime - and I'm now legally too old to join the Airforce. 

 

Comparisons between New Labour and Tory Lite are lazy too. I lived under the Tories, then under New Labour, then under the Tories again. Living under New Labour was quite considerably better. 

 

By the time of the next general election, Blair will have been the only Labour leader to have won a general election in half a century. It's a mind-blowing statistic.

 

But if you think about it, that's his crime. Being popular, having policies people wanted to vote for, making the compromises required from anyone who seeks power, and generally making a difference to people's lives - and doing all of this from the political centre-left.

 

Blair's biggest enemies within the Labour movement have kidded themselves that what people really want aren't the policies that delivered landslide victories in 1997 and 2001, but a raft of comedy left-wing policies the likes of which were already stale when they resulted in humiliating election defeat in 1983.

 

Starmer is never going to support the idea of the Queen being burnt at the stake or demand that Union Jacks be lowered on all public buildings and replaced with the flag of the PLO or whatever other student union debating society bullshit is being churned out by the usual suspects this week. But none of this makes him "Tory Lite".

[Jairzinho 23,085]

Would take the policies of 1997.

[AngryofTuebrook 18,302]

1 minute ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

By the time of the next general election, Blair will have been the only Labour leader to have won a general election in half a century. It's a mind-blowing statistic.

 

But if you think about it, that's his crime. Being popular, having policies people wanted to vote for, making the compromises required from anyone who seeks power, and generally making a difference to people's lives - and doing all of this from the political centre-left.

 

Blair's biggest enemies within the Labour movement have kidded themselves that what people really want aren't the policies that delivered landslide victories in 1997 and 2001, but a raft of comedy left-wing policies the likes of which were already stale when they resulted in humiliating election defeat in 1983.

 

Starmer is never going to support the idea of the Queen being burnt at the stake or demand that Union Jacks be lowered on all public buildings and replaced with the flag of the PLO or whatever other student union debating society bullshit is being churned out by the usual suspects this week. But none of this makes him "Tory Lite".

Bom bom bom bom

Mr Strawman

Shit me some shit....

 

 

 

[sir roger 6,037]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Starmer is never going to support the idea of the Queen being burnt at the stake or demand that Union Jacks be lowered on all public buildings and replaced with the flag of the PLO or whatever other student union debating society bullshit is being churned out by the usual suspects this week. But none of this makes him "Tory Lite".

Yes, that is exactly what we want , helpful.

[Jairzinho 23,085]

It's a real wonder the Lib Dems are polling worse than The Green Party.

[Gnasher 1,781]

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

By the time of the next general election, Blair will have been the only Labour leader to have won a general election in half a century. It's a mind-blowing statistic.

 

But if you think about it, that's his crime. Being popular,

Being popular, that's it!! Being popular is key and you've unlocked that key... now who else can we use as an example of "being popular" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

having policies people wanted to vote for, making the compromises required from anyone who seeks power, and generally making a difference to people's lives - and doing all of this from the political centre-left.

 

Blair's biggest enemies within the Labour movement have kidded themselves that what people really want aren't the policies that delivered landslide victories in 1997 and 2001, but a raft of comedy left-wing policies the likes of which were already stale when they resulted in humiliating election defeat in 1983.

 

Like free tuition fees? You're on a roll

 

8 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Starmer is never going to support the idea of the Queen being burnt at the stake or demand that Union Jacks be lowered on all public buildings and replaced with the flag of the PLO or whatever other student union debating society bullshit is being churned out by the usual suspects this week. But none of this makes him "Tory Lite".

 

Thinly veiled post that means to say...

 

'can you be the next leader we jump into bed with please Mr Starmer, we'll be good honest, the tories have bombed us out and the rest of the country fucking hate us'

[Bruce Spanner 2,875]

18 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Would take the policies of 1997.

 

We might be doing soon if Big Tone gets his wish of re-engaging, as The Sunday Times hinted at yesterday.

 

a Lazarus like return for the disgraced former PM.

[Gnasher 1,781]

14 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

It's a real wonder the Lib Dems are polling worse than The Green Party.

I know a man in a pink shirt who's going to change all that...

 

 

 

[cloggypop 11,087]

25 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

By the time of the next general election, Lloyd George will have been the only Liberal leader to have won a general election in over a century. It's a mind-blowing statistic.

 

 

 

[Mudface 3,516]

4 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

 

It's worse than that, Lloyd George never won an election, he was PM of a coalition with the Tories (plus ca change). This is the last one to produce an outright Liberal majority, under Campbell-Bannerman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1906_United_Kingdom_general_election

[mattyq 2,012]

56 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

"Taking responsibility" Is a really stupid way of analysing the reasons for election results though. 

 

 

Agreed

That's why I didn't say it.

I said he should take responsibility for the result... don't think this is a particularly radical suggestion.

Once that's done the analysis can begin. 

[Gnasher 1,781]

8 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

 

I know a man in a pink shirt who's going to change all that...

 

 

 

[Numero 6,959]

Back in the real world 

 

 

 

[Brownie 3,479]

7 minutes ago, Numero said:

Back in the real world 

 

 

 

Depressing that the government are so popular considering their absolutely disgraceful response to COVID.

 

Imagine how a government under any other party would be polling.

[Numero 6,959]

Just now, Brownie said:

Depressing that the government are so popular considering the absolute disgraceful response to COVID.

 

Imagine how a government under any other party would be polling.

The Tories have just won a landslide election, it’s going to take a while for those people to admit they were wrong voting for them. Then there’s the massive chunk of English people who will just vote for them not matter what. 

[Bruce Spanner 2,875]

6 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Depressing that the government are so popular considering their absolutely disgraceful response to COVID.

 

Imagine how a government under any other party would be polling.

87% of Tory voters still back Alex as leader.

 

We’re living in different realities. 

[skend04 2,199]

Just now, Bruce Spanner said:

87% of Tory voters still back Alex.

 

We’re living in different realities. 

They're suffering from cognitive dissonance but he's their guy. I think the Tory vote would collapse if he wasn't leader. It'll take a little while longer whilst he is, but it's inevitable as the furlough money is eventually going to stop and we're about to see supermarket shelves with very little fresh food just as soon as the stockpiled supplies run out.

[sir roger 6,037]

I am surprised that Labour are not in a healthy lead with a new leader bounce and a complicit government involved in @ 80k deaths.