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Keir Starmer


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9 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Sigh. Don't China have a power of veto in the UN? Any resolution would be vetoed by them. But, there's been plenty of condemnation by the UN nations re: the Uighur issue. These nations aren't interested in pointless whataboutery though and wouldn't be so stupid to bring resolutions that would just be a pointless waste of everyone's time. 

Which grinds your gears more and sparks more of a reaction, Palestine or the Uigher people?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, A Red said:

Maybe white middle class western educated lefties, who will tell you at every opportunity they are not sexist, hate fascists, are pro feminism and pro palestine, feel more comfortable protesting at western style Israel and white apartheid south africa more than they are of different colour or far/middle east regimes.

 

 

Corbyn has been vocal about Chinas human rights record. Pretty sure all on here condemn what they are doing. If someone defends them then you'll see debate on it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Corbyn has been vocal about Chinas human rights record. Pretty sure all on here condemn what they are doing. If someone defends them then you'll see debate on it.

 

As soon as you see a piece on Israels treatment of Palestinians you post it, in fact you go looking for it, I might be wrong but I dont believe you have ever done it with China and the Uigher people. Certainly a comparative miniscule amount of times in comparison, same with other regimes.

 

Dont get me wrong, i'm not defending Israel, you wont find a single post of me doing that, I just dont get why you or many other lefties are the same on this when there are so many other regimes deserving of the same level of criticism.

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6 minutes ago, A Red said:

As soon as you see a piece on Israels treatment of Palestinians you post it, in fact you go looking for it, I might be wrong but I dont believe you have ever done it with China and the Uigher people. Certainly a comparative miniscule amount of times in comparison, same with other regimes.

 

Dont get me wrong, i'm not defending Israel, you wont find a single post of me doing that, I just dont get why you or many other lefties are the same on this when there are so many other regimes deserving of the same level of criticism.

I called the Chinese 'utter cunts' on the Uligher thread. Your condemnation was deafening.... 

 

And no I don't "go looking" for anything. I follow certain accounts on twitter that happen to post updates about whats happening between Israel and Palestine. Not enough news is out to see regular stories from these camps in China or I'm sure more would be posted/said about it. Unfortunately for Israel, some Palestinians have internet access. 

 

Do you know why the British government and media don't condemn Israel? I suspect you do, you're a smart enough bloke but I doubt you'll say. 

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20 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

I called the Chinese 'utter cunts' on the Uligher thread. Your condemnation was deafening.... 

 

And no I don't "go looking" for anything. I follow certain accounts on twitter that happen to post updates about whats happening between Israel and Palestine. Not enough news is out to see regular stories from these camps in China or I'm sure more would be posted/said about it. Unfortunately for Israel, some Palestinians have internet access. 

 

Do you know why the British government and media don't condemn Israel? I suspect you do, you're a smart enough bloke but I doubt you'll say. 

I dont feel the need to post my feelings on every subject, theres loads I am against or would condemn but havent done so. I would usually be just another name in a long list of people, most who can be more original than me in their condemnation

 

I wont defend Israel over its treatment of Palestinians, I think they are cunts. Believe it or not I have given both time and money towards helping Palestinians. (I dont like to talk about Charidee)

 

It doesnt change my lack of understanding over the lefts time on one horrible regime and comparative ignoring of others

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2 minutes ago, A Red said:

I dont feel the need to post my feelings on every subject, theres loads I am against or would condemn but havent done so. I would usually be just another name in a long list of people, most who can be more original than me in their condemnation

 

I wont defend Israel over its treatment of Palestinians, I think they are cunts. Believe it or not I have given both time and money towards helping Palestinians. (I dont like to talk about Charidee)

 

It doesnt change my lack of understanding over the lefts time on one horrible regime and comparative ignoring of others

Good on you. 

 

As for the last sentence... I'm sure the left condemn all forms of mis-treatment of human beings. Like I pointed out previously, Corbyn has brought up Chinese human right issues. I don't see much from the right (particularly around Israel) you seem to be a rare exception. 

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On 28/11/2020 at 09:23, Section_31 said:

For all the demonising of Starmer, it's important to remember that Corbyn kicked this whole thing off with his statement, which he released despite having had a conversation with his duly elected party leader the night before.

 

Much in the same style of "I'm not deleting my tweet" RLB, it's been nothing but a series of "fuck yous",  as one would expect from someone who's broken the whip more than a poundshop Indiana Jones, and his chosen successor. But when their bluff has been called the indignation and outrage has flown thick and fast. 

 

It's just protest politics and he doesn't care who he's protesting against. He probably views the Labour party, save for a handful of close friends, as being no different from the rest of the people and organisations he's railed against in his career.

 

But if you showed Corbyn a crystal ball and he could see he'd never have been in number 10 for the next 20 years, but he could have had plenty of chances to profess his outrage at various establishment injustices, he'd have taken that IMO, and that makes him a bad party leader and someone who clearly doesn't care as much as he says he does.

 

It's no good for the many millions doomed to perpetual Tory rule though, and that's why I don't swallow the bollocks about what a lovely man he is. Personally I don't want hugs or solidarity, I want a functioning government that doesn't take back handers and is content to see my kids starve. 

Goody fucking gawd. What is this fucking shit?

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1 hour ago, A Red said:

I dont feel the need to post my feelings on every subject, theres loads I am against or would condemn but havent done so. I would usually be just another name in a long list of people, most who can be more original than me in their condemnation

 

I wont defend Israel over its treatment of Palestinians, I think they are cunts. Believe it or not I have given both time and money towards helping Palestinians. (I dont like to talk about Charidee)

 

It doesnt change my lack of understanding over the lefts time on one horrible regime and comparative ignoring of others

Whilst you don't spend your time calling out everything you don't agree with, you can't understand why others don't spend their time calling out everything they don't agree with ?

 

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1 minute ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Whilst you don't spend your time calling out everything you don't agree with, you can't understand why the left don't spend their time calling out everything they don't agree with ?

 

Errr ...... I'm talking about one obsession over other issues. I'm not just talking about here but in general.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Keir is abstaining again. 

Not sure of the tactics here, it says in the Guardian that he is abstaining rather than voting for the bill to show his displeasure at the lack of help for the hospitality industry, but would it not have been better to use the clout to get some positive help for pubs and restaurants as I can't imagine Johnson will be bothered too much whether they abstain or vote for. Maybe looking to give deniability in future but not sure it will work when numbers of Tory mps are voting against.

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7 hours ago, sir roger said:

Not sure of the tactics here, it says in the Guardian that he is abstaining rather than voting for the bill to show his displeasure at the lack of help for the hospitality industry, but would it not have been better to use the clout to get some positive help for pubs and restaurants as I can't imagine Johnson will be bothered too much whether they abstain or vote for. Maybe looking to give deniability in future but not sure it will work when numbers of Tory mps are voting against.


‘WHY IS LABOUR ABSTAINING? Those on Team Starmer say it’s because they wanted the government to go further on financial support for the hospitality industry, though it also slightly gets them out of a full-on showdown with a 20-strong contingent of northern Labour MPs who want to vote against the tiers, as HuffPo’s Rachel Wearmouth reports. Ultimately, Labour abstaining means the Tory split is there for all to see and, as the Guardian’s Jess Elgot puts it, is a “shot across the bow” of the government ahead of the next vote.


SQUABBLING VIA SOURCE QUOTE: Abstaining does somewhat open Starmer up to the allegation he is ducking a huge vote affecting some 56 million people, and sure enough a No. 10 spokesperson said last night: “While Keir Starmer claims he offers new leadership, it’s clear to all that he actually offers no leadership at all. Starmer is playing politics in the middle of a global pandemic instead of working with the government to find a way through this difficult time for the British people.” A Labour official hit back to Playbook: “If I was No. 10, I’d be more worried about the Tory whip than our whip tomorrow.”’

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Votes with the government, gets smacked for propping up the Tories, doesn’t vote with the government, gets smacked for putting politics ahead of the country. Nice try, Tories and Tory enablers, there’s no deflecting this one, the Tories are split over this, part of the country is going mad, and the news will be that your party aren’t supporting the government. 

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1 hour ago, Numero said:

Votes with the government, gets smacked for propping up the Tories, doesn’t vote with the government, gets smacked for putting politics ahead of the country. Nice try, Tories and Tory enablers, there’s no deflecting this one, the Tories are split over this, part of the country is going mad, and the news will be that your party aren’t supporting the government. 

I agree this is a difficult one. Votes with them and then slags them off, will definitely get the Captain Hindsight bollocks. I am not so sure how the news will report it, that is more down to the news rather than Starmer.

Votes against, the deal will still go through, I imagine, he will get more shit than the Tories who vote against, but will be able to call them out when they fail.

Surely if he thinks it is wrong for the country, as he says, he should vote against ? 

 

I think the logic for abstaining is he says something needs to be done, so can't oppose doing something. However, what they are doing is wrong, so can't support what they are doing. It is a tough sell, for me, but I do kind of understand the logic. It just depends on if he can set the narrative.

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16 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I agree this is a difficult one. Votes with them and then slags them off, will definitely get the Captain Hindsight bollocks. I am not so sure how the news will report it, that is more down to the news rather than Starmer.

Votes against, the deal will still go through, I imagine, he will get more shit than the Tories who vote against, but will be able to call them out when they fail.

Surely if he thinks it is wrong for the country, as he says, he should vote against ? 

 

I think the logic for abstaining is he says something needs to be done, so can't oppose doing something. However, what they are doing is wrong, so can't support what they are doing. It is a tough sell, for me, but I do kind of understand the logic. It just depends on if he can set the narrative.

Yeah, I have no idea what’s right. I’ve been quite comfortable with him voting with the government over the measures. You can’t deny life saving measures for political cuntery, no matter what some of the twats say about him ‘supporting the Tories’, which the response of ‘do you support Labour voting against paying workers during a pandemic and essentially condemning the labour force to destitution’ never gets answered. This is a bit different to that, and I think he is playing politics now that there’s a gap to do so. Is it right... I honestly don’t know. I don’t really even know what I think about the tiers. As much as I think Tories are incompetent, I don’t envy them having to deal with this pandemic. It seems like it’s just a bullshit balancing act until the vaccines start taking hold. 

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Not sure who the dickhead is or what he posted, but the headline not matching the complaint is irksome. I was ready to fly off the handle in defence is my dearest Keirest, only to find out she didn’t call for Starmer to return it, but Labour. I wonder if the Guardian realise subs don’t go straight into the leader’s bank account. 

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