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Keir Starmer


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18 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

The way we're all raging at each other on this thread, despite all fundamentally being of similar political outlook, is probably the culmination of some heinous plan that was hatched in a digital think-tank seven years ago.


If Gnasher isn’t the culmination of decades worth of PsyOp development I’d be fucking amazed. 

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1 hour ago, Numero said:

It’s almost certainly true, and it would have happened under ever leader of every party ever. It’s how they work, it’s actually a big part of their job. I’m not sayings it’s right but they all do it. TV shows have been written about it. 

 

Hopefully if they speak out more it'll happen less.

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1 hour ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

If you start calling the MSM out as 'propaganda' then what do you think will happen?  Same old shit, dismissing it as crank theory, etc.

 

It's hard but more people can start realising it if the calling out is sustained enough. The alternative is to lose consistently to whatever crap they decide to invent.

 

Today's drama is the NEC too, left members staged a digital walk out and new chair is Margaret Beckett.

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15 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Hopefully if they speak out more it'll happen less.

I’m not seeing the correlation between the two things. It is done to keep the dirty laundry in house. Anybody dragging down leadership in public is generally a bad thing, though there must be a way to do it internally. Still, she is young and naive. She’ll learn or suffer defenestration. Just how it is. The idea that being more insubordinate and more undermining is going to make things better for them is, I suspect, a touch hopeful. 

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16 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

It's hard but more people can start realising it if the calling out is sustained enough. The alternative is to lose consistently to whatever crap they decide to invent.

 

Today's drama is the NEC too, left members staged a digital walk out and new chair is Margaret Beckett.

Did they all turn over to Neighbours? 

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11 hours ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Corbyn needs to fuck off now. 

He missed his chance, and now history has been written by the victors and he's an antisemite. He keeps drawing Starmer within orbit of his muck.  I can't think of an example of a tainted politician getting an electorate back onside.  

The sad thing regarding this post is I'd guess their might be a few on here who agree it.

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8 minutes ago, Numero said:

I’m not seeing the correlation between the two things. It is done to keep the dirty laundry in house. Anybody dragging down leadership in public is generally a bad thing, though there must be a way to do it internally. Still, she is young and naive. She’ll learn or suffer defenestration. Just how it is. The idea that being more insubordinate and more undermining is going to make things better for them is, I suspect, a touch hopeful. 

 

I can understand the in house thing but it's not as if those that hated Corbyn stayed that quiet when he was leader, so it probably just seems normal to me that people speak out so often now.

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5 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I can understand the in house thing but it's not as if those that hated Corbyn stayed that quiet when he was leader, so it probably just seems normal to me that people speak out so often now.

I thought that would be the response. It so often is. ‘Yeah, it’s wrong, but payback is a bitch’. Enjoy the Tory cuts, bitches. I called for those undermining Corbyn - anybody working against a Labour Party victory - to be thrown from the party. My opinion hasn’t changed, though it seems like Corbyn fans who complained about it before are fucking relishing it now. It’s all so self-defeating. 
 

As for the NEC walk out, you’ve got to love it. 
 

‘The Corbyn-supporting bloc on the NEC – which now has a majority supportive of Starmer’s leadership – has been further angered by a decision to allow members to elect a new chair, rather than having a rotating chairmanship’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/24/corbyn-supporting-labour-faction-stage-nec-mass-walkout

 

The fact that there’s still a ‘Corbyn-supporting bloc’ is insanity. He is, as for almost all of his career, a backbencher. 

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1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

The way we're all raging at each other on this thread, despite all fundamentally being of similar political outlook, is probably the culmination of some heinous plan that was hatched in a digital think-tank seven years ago.

Yawn. Do you not work for the labour party? Its obvious if that if you try to  expel a former leader who was popular with the grass roots members it's going to cause divisions but you probably knew that anyway. 

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6 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Oh no what are we going to do?

 

They've ensured we've been in government for the last 4 years and now they're deserting us the Tories will get back in.......

Who are "they" ? The 10 million who or so who voted Labour? The half million members?  

 

Does Labour now have to do as its told by a certain faction tknthe right of the party? as you Section and Skippy seen to advocate.  A faction of trouble makers whom some even admitted to voting Tory. at the last election? 

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18 minutes ago, Numero said:

I thought that would be the response. It so often is. ‘Yeah, it’s wrong, but payback is a bitch’. Enjoy the Tory cuts, bitches. I called for those undermining Corbyn - anybody working against a Labour Party victory - to be thrown from the party. My opinion hasn’t changed, though it seems like Corbyn fans who complained about it before are fucking relishing it now. It’s all so self-defeating. 
 

As for the NEC walk out, you’ve got to love it. 
 

‘The Corbyn-supporting bloc on the NEC – which now has a majority supportive of Starmer’s leadership – has been further angered by a decision to allow members to elect a new chair, rather than having a rotating chairmanship’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/24/corbyn-supporting-labour-faction-stage-nec-mass-walkout

 

The fact that there’s still a ‘Corbyn-supporting bloc’ is insanity. He is, as for almost all of his career, a backbencher. 

The fact that something is called a "Corbyn supporting block" by the Guardian doesn't make it so. 

It seems, from reading that article, that the protest was against the rule change on electing the chair as opposed to rotating the chair as was previously the case. The irony being if Corbyn or "his block" had changed the rules as soon as he had become leader and taken numbers on the NEC it would have been called out as outrageous and a sign the Left are trying to take control of the party structure by the very same Guardian.

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4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Yawn. Do you not work for the labour party? Its obvious if that if you try to  expel a former leader who was popular with the grass roots members it's going to cause divisions but you probably knew that anyway. 

The divisions are already there. If they’re there for one man, then they’re not there for the Labour movement. Maybe the rift between social democrats and Corbynites has become too wide. Maybe the SWP is a genuinely better fit? 

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28 minutes ago, Numero said:

I thought that would be the response. It so often is. ‘Yeah, it’s wrong, but payback is a bitch’. Enjoy the Tory cuts, bitches. I called for those undermining Corbyn - anybody working against a Labour Party victory - to be thrown from the party. My opinion hasn’t changed, though it seems like Corbyn fans who complained about it before are fucking relishing it now. It’s all so self-defeating.

 

I think the party is too divided anyway. I don't think this would ever happen but maybe the best option if there's a party split would be for every single other party to just accept they're part of a spectrum of different views, but that the Tory cunts have to go.

 

Then work out who's standing in seats around the country between each other and try and form an alliance of everyone but those bastards. They'd have years to plan this if they did it soon. Then if they win get PR in instantly and our problems for a big part are solved. It couldn't be anything like the chaos we saw at the last election though. Every party would have to know exactly what seats they're standing in and what seats they're standing down in with no room at all for error or arguing once the next election starts.

 

If they'd just fucking do it we'd probably be able to sort the country out. Then if PR is added go back to fucking arguing with each other and see who comes out on top. This though isn't working, and even if we go to another leadership contest and Starmer loses we'd still be fucked, right back where it was with Corbyn if a more left wing MP won. It could be that Labour is broken and there's no going back now.

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2 minutes ago, Numero said:

The divisions are already there. If they’re there for one man, then they’re not there for the Labour movement. Maybe the rift between social democrats and Corbynites has become too wide. Maybe the SWP is a genuinely better fit? 

Starmers Whores Party ? 

Not a great title but as long as us Corbynites can keep Labour I am happy enough.

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1 minute ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

I think the party is too divided anyway. I don't think this would ever happen but maybe the best option if there's a party split would be for every single other party to just accept they're part of a spectrum of different views, but that the Tory cunts have to go.

 

Then work out who's standing in seats around the country between each other and try and form an alliance of everyone but those bastards. They'd have years to plan this if they did it soon. Then if they win get PR in instantly and our problems for a big part are solved. It couldn't be anything like the chaos we saw at the last election though. Every party would have to know exactly what seats they're standing in and what seats they're standing down in with no room at all for error or arguing once the next election starts.

 

If they'd just fucking do it we'd probably be able to sort the country out. Then if PR is added go back to fucking arguing with each other and see who comes out on top. This though isn't working, and even if we go to another leadership contest and Starmer loses we'd still be fucked, right back where it was with Corbyn. It could be that Labour is broken and there's no going back now.

That could very well be true. When you’ve got people calling Starmer out for attacking the unions and of being a control freak because there was an election on the chair, you know that things are very deep and I’m not sure that if people are so entrenched that there’s any way out. I think  the split was deep under Corbyn and all that has happened is there’s a flip and there’s still a chasm. Obviously withholding the whip makes things much harder in the short term. Doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing, though I’m still undecided. 
 

Maybe it’s heading for a split, though I doubt it, but the problem is that the more pragmatic centre-left have just been voted in and the inflexible old-Labour left have just lost two elections, are massively unpopular with the electorate, and have brought significant disrepute to the party, so it would be a difficult argument to make that it’s not the Social Democrats that should continue with Labour but those on the left instead.
 

The main reason Labour won’t split is because whoever leaves to start a new party will likely get smacked at the election. It would be interesting if Corbyn started a party and all the unions left. Either way, it would split the Labour vote and the Tories win. But as long as Corbyn and his utterly clueless, sycophantic supporters get ‘justice’ for the completely innocent working class hero, who never really worked, then I’m more than happy to see the Tories rip the country apart, because he is what really matters. Maybe they get back control of the party then the centre-left are called the right-wing again and those right wingers can say ‘yeah, but you did it to Starmer’ and it can go round and around and around whilst Boris’ demon child can take over, sell the NHS to the Americans, erode the welfare state, and sell your nan to an oil company. Then, and only then, will I be truly happy. At least the ‘right’ didn’t win. 

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1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

The sad thing regarding this post is I'd guess their might be a few on here who agree it.

I love Corbyn, but he's toast. 

You can have the best ideas in the world but then Fiona Bruce says "what about the anti semitism in your party" and you can't have an argument about semantics, the general public don't get it and aren't interested.  They want to hear easy stuff. They will snaffle up the excuse of anti-Semitism to vote Tory if it keeps being presented to them.  You only stop that by putting Corbyn in the rear view mirror. 

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7 minutes ago, Numero said:

That could very well be true. When you’ve got people calling Starmer out for attacking the unions and of being a control freak because there was an election on the chair, you know that things are very deep and I’m not sure that if people are so entrenched that there’s any way out. I think  the split was deep under Corbyn and all that has happened is there’s a flip and there’s still a chasm. Obviously withholding the whip makes things much harder in the short term. Doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing, though I’m still undecided. 
 

Maybe it’s heading for a split, though I doubt it, but the problem is that the more pragmatic centre-left have just been voted in and the inflexible old-Labour left have just lost two elections, are massively unpopular with the electorate, and have brought significant disrepute to the party, so it would be a difficult argument to make that it’s not the Social Democrats that should continue with Labour but those on the left instead.
 

The main reason Labour won’t split is because whoever leaves to start a new party will likely get smacked at the election. It would be interesting if Corbyn started a party and all the unions left. Either way, it would split the Labour vote and the Tories win. But as long as Corbyn and his utterly clueless, sycophantic supporters get ‘justice’ for the completely innocent working class hero, who never really worked, then I’m more than happy to see the Tories rip the country apart, because he is what really matters. Maybe they get back control of the party then the centre-left are called the right-wing again and those right wingers can say ‘yeah, but you did it to Starmer’ and it can go round and around and around whilst Boris’ demon child can take over, sell the NHS to the Americans, erode the welfare state, and sell your nan to an oil company. Then, and only then, will I be truly happy. At least the ‘right’ didn’t win. 

 

I can see what you mean mostly and then debate, or eventually argue part of what you say too (seeing as we're both supporting different sides of this) but to be honest after this drama and the US election I'm worn out with it all. I'll probably vote Green next anyway so I feel like I'm arguing about a party that I shouldn't even be spending so much energy on. Hopefully we'll get the Tories out eventually anyway whether that's via Starmer or someone else's Labour, or some type of coalition, and even if it takes a fucking decade to do.

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14 minutes ago, Numero said:

That could very well be true. When you’ve got people calling Starmer out for attacking the unions and of being a control freak because there was an election on the chair, you know that things are very deep and I’m not sure that if people are so entrenched that there’s any way out. I think  the split was deep under Corbyn and all that has happened is there’s a flip and there’s still a chasm. Obviously withholding the whip makes things much harder in the short term. Doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing, though I’m still undecided. 
 

Maybe it’s heading for a split, though I doubt it, but the problem is that the more pragmatic centre-left have just been voted in and the inflexible old-Labour left have just lost two elections, are massively unpopular with the electorate, and have brought significant disrepute to the party, so it would be a difficult argument to make that it’s not the Social Democrats that should continue with Labour but those on the left instead.
 

The main reason Labour won’t split is because whoever leaves to start a new party will likely get smacked at the election. It would be interesting if Corbyn started a party and all the unions left. Either way, it would split the Labour vote and the Tories win. But as long as Corbyn and his utterly clueless, sycophantic supporters get ‘justice’ for the completely innocent working class hero, who never really worked, then I’m more than happy to see the Tories rip the country apart, because he is what really matters. Maybe they get back control of the party then the centre-left are called the right-wing again and those right wingers can say ‘yeah, but you did it to Starmer’ and it can go round and around and around whilst Boris’ demon child can take over, sell the NHS to the Americans, erode the welfare state, and sell your nan to an oil company. Then, and only then, will I be truly happy. At least the ‘right’ didn’t win. 

Thank god you are not tribal.

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