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Keir Starmer

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8 hours ago, Brownie said:

Sky News reported it as a "spar" between the two. A brutal KO would have been more accurate.

One mans meat is another mans poison I suppose,

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

One mans meat is another mans poison I suppose,

 

 

Can’t read that mate, have an adblocker and no chance i’m registering with them.

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On 03/11/2020 at 08:34, lifetime fan said:


The biggest fuck up Blair ever made (Iraq obviously aside) was not agreeing with Ashdown and going for PR. 

This is such a hot take.  This thread and the various other politics threads are full of them.  Completely daft un-thought out ideas that have clearly just been read somewhere else and regurgitated here.  Why would Blair have ever agreed to change the voting system to PR?  For a start it hampers the two party system that of which labour is one of.  Then and now there’s only two party’s that can get into power and Labour is one of them.  It really helps partys outside of those two as they get countless people voting for tories/labour rather than “wasting” their vote.  With PR the vast swathes of actual left wing voters would then walk away and vote for another party.

 

Completely ignoring all of this though the main reason why he wouldn’t go for PR is that there has been an economic consensus between the tories and labour for decades and as he has even said himself Blair would rather the tories be in power than a left wing Labour Party.  The idea that Blair made a mistake not introducing PR is one the most stupid sentences I think I’ve read on here and I used to read what Rico wrote.

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Jon Trickett and Ian Lavery, who were both prominent supporters of Jeremy Corbyn and members of the shadow cabinet when he was leader, are calling from an apology from Labour for its stance on Brexit before the 2019 general election.

 

They were both opponents of the party’s shift towards backing a second referendum during the 2017-19 parliament, and since the general election they have been researching why Labour lost support amongst working class voters. In an article for Huffington Post, they argue an apology would help to rebuild trust. They write:

 

'At a time when many people think politics is broken and trust in the establishment is at a very low ebb, it is critically important that we reset the relationship between the party and the electorate. It may be that in order to do this we will need frankly to accept that we were mistaken.

So, let’s be honest. Labour got it wrong on a second referendum. The party went against one of the only times in recent history that people felt they could finally express their justified anger at the present political system.

To rebuild trust that has been lost and restore people’s trust in politics – Labour should say sorry. This is not only about Labour winning elections but restoring faith in democracy.

We do not believe that the party can move on until it has put this issue behind us.

For those who will say that the matter is behind us and we should move on, we say it will not do to whitewash or to ignore the recent past.

The country, our voters and our activists all deserve an explanation and perhaps an apology by the party for our actions in the years after the referendum up until the December election.

It must be a settling of accounts with leavers, of course – but also with the remainers, some of whom were falsely led to believe that we might be able to remain.'

 

Good, good, decent day to air grievances...

 

I just want to bang my head against a fucking wall.

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58 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Jon Trickett and Ian Lavery, who were both prominent supporters of Jeremy Corbyn and members of the shadow cabinet when he was leader, are calling from an apology from Labour for its stance on Brexit before the 2019 general election.

 

They were both opponents of the party’s shift towards backing a second referendum during the 2017-19 parliament, and since the general election they have been researching why Labour lost support amongst working class voters. In an article for Huffington Post, they argue an apology would help to rebuild trust. They write:

 

'At a time when many people think politics is broken and trust in the establishment is at a very low ebb, it is critically important that we reset the relationship between the party and the electorate. It may be that in order to do this we will need frankly to accept that we were mistaken.

So, let’s be honest. Labour got it wrong on a second referendum. The party went against one of the only times in recent history that people felt they could finally express their justified anger at the present political system.

To rebuild trust that has been lost and restore people’s trust in politics – Labour should say sorry. This is not only about Labour winning elections but restoring faith in democracy.

We do not believe that the party can move on until it has put this issue behind us.

For those who will say that the matter is behind us and we should move on, we say it will not do to whitewash or to ignore the recent past.

The country, our voters and our activists all deserve an explanation and perhaps an apology by the party for our actions in the years after the referendum up until the December election.

It must be a settling of accounts with leavers, of course – but also with the remainers, some of whom were falsely led to believe that we might be able to remain.'

 

Good, good, decent day to air grievances...

 

I just want to bang my head against a fucking wall.

The thing with that is depending on your confirmation bias, you can see it as an attack/defence of your side. 

 

Corbyn, weak leader and went for a second referendum, when he didn't want one. 

People like him are the reason we lost.

 

Starmer, Remoaner nut case, thinks he knows better than voters.

People like him are the reason we lost.

 

Ultimately the party voted at conference to have a 2nd referendum, majority of members were/are remainers. 

The leadership listened to the party membership and went for a compromise. Which again you can see as a good/bad think. 

 

I don't have an issue with saying we got it wrong, I think people would all agree that Corbyn (if you agree with the narrative or not) and Get Brexit Done (despite the fact nothing is oven ready) are two mayor reasons for the 2019 election result.  

 

One of the things that pisses me off with certain leading Tories (particularly Nadhim Zahawa, James Cleverly), is the fact no matter what they are asked or what implications are put in front of them, their government/party has never done anything wrong, ever. Maybe admitting you made a major mistake is a step forward ?

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scooby Dudek said:

The thing with that is depending on your confirmation bias, you can see it as an attack/defence of your side. 

 

Corbyn, weak leader and went for a second referendum, when he didn't want one. 

People like him are the reason we lost.

 

Starmer, Remoaner nut case, thinks he knows better than voters.

People like him are the reason we lost.

 

Ultimately the party voted at conference to have a 2nd referendum, majority of members were/are remainers. 

The leadership listened to the party membership and went for a compromise. Which again you can see as a good/bad think. 

 

I don't have an issue with saying we got it wrong, I think people would all agree that Corbyn (if you agree with the narrative or not) and Get Brexit Done (despite the fact nothing is oven ready) are two mayor reasons for the 2019 election result.  

 

One of the things that pisses me off with certain leading Tories (particularly Nadhim Zahawa, James Cleverly), is the fact no matter what they are asked or what implications are put in front of them, their government/party has never done anything wrong, ever. Maybe admitting you made a major mistake is a step forward ?

 

 

 


Agree with the points about the bias optics and it’s not clear who they are trying to hurt/help, which only leaves them hurting one thing, The Labour Party as a whole.

 

I’m all for a complete autopsy on why things went so badly wrong, it’s essential to learn what the mistakes were and to learn from them. Then we can set out what we got wrong, how, why and then to say we’re sorry, but these two coming out today, when there are far bigger concerns, is just another example of the left shooting itself in the foot.
 

We should only be competing for eyes when the stories are positive, let the world watch the Tories implode whilst we keep our own council.

 

Another unwelcome circus. 

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We arent going to get the red wall defectors back onside without trying to get inside their heads but I agree it shouldnt be down to the likes of Lavery and Trickett to do it it should be a proper full party investigation , but I suspect a lot of the new regime are happy to blame most of it on the old regime and look at their shoes when Brexit is mentioned, hoping it will be a distant ( and probably proved )  argument by the time an election comes round.

 

A looming dilemma for Labour is that I reckon that Starmer will do very well in Conservative constituencies from the Midands down with reasonable amounts of Lib Dems and Tory wets to go at, but his positioning to do this will potentially grind the gears of the northern voters and Scots who already see Labour as smug and southern-centric.

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One year from now covid and Brexit should have made the Tories so toxic that the north would never vote for them in, at least, a generation.

 

It’s all there if managed right, these voters were one issue voters, maybe broad strokes I know, but getting them back should be within reason given the amount of damage the Tories are doing and will do to them.

 

The next election is entirely winnable, maybe through coalition, as long as we ensure the acts of this reckless bunch of cunts lives long in the memory.

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I hope you are right, Bruce, but looking across the pond suggests that people who make political decisions based on their own prejudices are pretty hard to shift.

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7 hours ago, The Guest said:

This is such a hot take.  This thread and the various other politics threads are full of them.  Completely daft un-thought out ideas that have clearly just been read somewhere else and regurgitated here.  Why would Blair have ever agreed to change the voting system to PR?  For a start it hampers the two party system that of which labour is one of.  Then and now there’s only two party’s that can get into power and Labour is one of them.  It really helps partys outside of those two as they get countless people voting for tories/labour rather than “wasting” their vote.  With PR the vast swathes of actual left wing voters would then walk away and vote for another party.

 

Completely ignoring all of this though the main reason why he wouldn’t go for PR is that there has been an economic consensus between the tories and labour for decades and as he has even said himself Blair would rather the tories be in power than a left wing Labour Party.  The idea that Blair made a mistake not introducing PR is one the most stupid sentences I think I’ve read on here and I used to read what Rico wrote.


Shut up. I have said for years Labour should have introduced PR and explained why. 
 

A two party system when before Blair Labour hadn’t been in power for a generation. What’s the fucking point of being in a two party system if you’re only ever the second party. 
 

A broader coalition of the centre left, left and greens would be better for the vast majority of the country. 
 

You have any evidence ‘vast swathes’ of Labour voters would desert the party? Thought not. 
 

It was definitely a mistake for the Labour Party Blair not introducing PR, it wouldn’t have mattered to him personally either way. 

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17 hours ago, Brownie said:

Can’t read that mate, have an adblocker and no chance i’m registering with them.

John Rentool is best not read at all.

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58 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:


Shut up. I have said for years Labour should have introduced PR and explained why. 
 

A two party system when before Blair Labour hadn’t been in power for a generation. What’s the fucking point of being in a two party system if you’re only ever the second party. 
 

A broader coalition of the centre left, left and greens would be better for the vast majority of the country. 
 

You have any evidence ‘vast swathes’ of Labour voters would desert the party? Thought not. 
 

It was definitely a mistake for the Labour Party Blair not introducing PR, it wouldn’t have mattered to him personally either way. 

I agree with most of this post but this is not what you put originally.  Blair doesn’t give a flying Shite about Labour being in power.  All he gives a shit about is the status quo remaining in place which is why it wasn’t a mistake for him or even his Labour Party as a whole.  Labour would have gone from being second to falling even further behind and never having a majority government again.  As you say a coalition of left parties would happen and would be far better as it would keep labour in check and stop them turning into a gang of corporatist elites which is what it is now.

 

The vast swathes of votes would be going to the greens and other actual left leaning parties.  Most of the left leaning people in this country wouldn’t vote labour again if a vote for another party wouldn’t be a wasted vote when all they’ve got currently is a choice of 2 evils.

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59 minutes ago, The Guest said:

I agree with most of this post but this is not what you put originally.  Blair doesn’t give a flying Shite about Labour being in power.  All he gives a shit about is the status quo remaining in place which is why it wasn’t a mistake for him or even his Labour Party as a whole.  Labour would have gone from being second to falling even further behind and never having a majority government again.  As you say a coalition of left parties would happen and would be far better as it would keep labour in check and stop them turning into a gang of (1) corporatist elites which is what it is now.

 

The vast swathes of votes would be going to the greens and other actual left leaning parties. (2) Most of the left leaning people in this country wouldn’t vote labour again if a vote for another party wouldn’t be a wasted vote when all they’ve got currently is a choice of 2 evils.


1) Who, I’m genuinely curious? Show your working as well it might not make me think you’re regurgitating shite you read on Squarkbox and failed to think about for more than two seconds.

 

2) Again, show your working as this is one of the silliest things I’ve read in a long time. Read it back again, ‘Most of the left leaning people...’ frankly that’s mad and only goes to further show what sort of echo chamber you’re living in.

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NEC Election results were delayed by 5 hours as officials searched to disallow votes from members who subsequently resigned after voting. Not sure of the technical legalities and rulebook involved  , but I suspect it wont ease suspicions of factionalism as a centrist got the 2nd NEC position by 252 votes from a more radical candidate.

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1 minute ago, sir roger said:

NEC Election results were delayed by 5 hours as officials searched to disallow votes from members who subsequently resigned after voting. Not sure of the technical legalities and rulebook involved  , but I suspect it wont ease suspicions of factionalism as a centrist got the 2nd NEC position by 252 votes from a more radical candidate.

Like you, no idea on the rules but if they voted and resigned I guess it seems like they could be protecting against sabotage? No idea how many resigned of course. Who were the candidates?

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Gurinder Singh Josan   57361

Johanna Baxter             57181

Lauren Townsend         56929

 

All of the others were lower than 46150

 

I imagine the rules are pretty strict , and should hopefully be fairly clear.

 

 

 

 

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Reading different viewpoints on the NEC balance following the elections, but very disappointed that any Labour members of whatever shade could feel that a vote for the cunt Luke Akehurst who did his best to sabotage two elections for the party was a good idea.

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23 hours ago, The Guest said:

I agree with most of this post but this is not what you put originally.  Blair doesn’t give a flying Shite about Labour being in power.  All he gives a shit about is the status quo remaining in place which is why it wasn’t a mistake for him or even his Labour Party as a whole.  Labour would have gone from being second to falling even further behind and never having a majority government again.  As you say a coalition of left parties would happen and would be far better as it would keep labour in check and stop them turning into a gang of corporatist elites which is what it is now.

 

The vast swathes of votes would be going to the greens and other actual left leaning parties.  Most of the left leaning people in this country wouldn’t vote labour again if a vote for another party wouldn’t be a wasted vote when all they’ve got currently is a choice of 2 evils.

 

Isn't that essentially the situation Labour are in now?

 

In the short term it probably was the right decision, but in the longer term it has left Labour in a situation where they enter elections with a 0% chance of winning a majority whilst the Tories have a 'thumping majority' with a 43.6% share of the vote. 

 

 

 

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The following candidates have been elected as CLP representatives to the National Executive Committee:

 

• Luke Akehurst

• Johanna Baxter

• Ann Black

• Gemma Bolton

• Yasmine Dar

• Nadia Jama

• Gurinder Singh Josan

• Laura Pidcock

• Mish Rahman

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Just had a look at that Luke Akehurst’s Twitter feed. He’s tweeting about vote shares in those elections swinging from Momentum to Labour to Win and retweeting tweets from “Starmer supporting sources” about how this is a win for moderates.

 

Nauseating.

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12 hours ago, cloggypop said:

I suppose when you appear to be bending over backwards towards one small, specific religious group you will always run the risk of alienating other groups.

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