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Keir Starmer

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2 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

She always looks stoned to me.

Looks like she’s running out of date software to me. It’s like she speaks via predictive text. Genuinely, if you watch her she looks up into her brain and appears to choose the next word from a list. It’s bizarre. I’ve no doubt her heart is in the right place but bloody hell, she isn’t well suited to what she is doing. 

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Jesus I’ve just watched the Newsnight piece. McCluskey on Mandelson “ he should just go into a room and count his Gold” I mean I’m sure he meant nothing by it but these people can be spectacularly thick at times. Went to my school as well McCluskey. Doesn’t bode well for me.

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2 minutes ago, RedKnight said:

Don't see what's wrong with saying Mandelson should count his gol... oh. 

 

At least the Anti-Semitism shouts will sto... oh.

Well, the fact he has Jewish heritage doesn't help. His father's family started a synagogue or something. I mean, I've no idea why people can't just stop with that shit. They know what the cries will be. It's so silly. 

 

I thought Abbott's 'he was Mr remain but you don't hear much about remain now' was a really low blow. It's basically saying he has dropped his principles because he's no longer fighting for remain. Erm... just no. 

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40 minutes ago, RedKnight said:

Don't see what's wrong with saying Mandelson should count his gol... oh. 

 

At least the Anti-Semitism shouts will sto... oh.

Meanwhile in another universe where the rules are so very different..

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Meanwhile in another universe where the rules are so very different..

 

 

You do see he was joking right? Even you can’t have missed that. 

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3 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Can you show me what I’ve said against socialism and socialist policies? It should be easy enough as you’ve come to the conclusion that I (a socialist, who has spend many years on here espousing socialist views) hate socialism. Not just that but I hate it more that the Tories (when I’ve spent many years posting about how much I hate the Tories).
 

I think you’re getting mixed up between socialism and Corbyn. It’s perfectly possibly to be a socialist and have a problem with the leadership’s capability to deliver socialism. This isn’t the first time you’ve done this. You’ve called me a right wing nut job, not because I’ve ever posted anything right wing, but because I’ve posted things about Corbyn. 
 

So, about my anti-socialist views that you’re judging this on... 

@Gnasher

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2 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Well, the fact he has Jewish heritage doesn't help. His father's family started a synagogue or something. I mean, I've no idea why people can't just stop with that shit. They know what the cries will be. It's so silly. 

 

I thought Abbott's 'he was Mr remain but you don't hear much about remain now' was a really low blow. It's basically saying he has dropped his principles because he's no longer fighting for remain. Erm... just no. 

Starmer was Mr Remain but Labour got trounced partly because a portion of the electorate didn't like that they were equivocal on Brexit. Starmer has rightly said that the argument is over and won, he can't change it so move on. He needs to have the possible voters see it too so I think it's sensible.

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31 minutes ago, RedKnight said:

Starmer was Mr Remain but Labour got trounced partly because a portion of the electorate didn't like that they were equivocal on Brexit. Starmer has rightly said that the argument is over and won, he can't change it so move on. He needs to have the possible voters see it too so I think it's sensible.

Exactly. With the resounding win in the GE, the debate was immediately lost. If he was still banging on about remain, Abbott would have been on newsnight criticising him for not being pragmatic. It’s all a bit daft from her, as per. 

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2 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

Exactly. With the resounding win in the GE, the debate was immediately lost. If he was still banging on about remain, Abbott would have been on newsnight criticising him for not being pragmatic. It’s all a bit daft from her, as per. 

I would have more sympathy with this view if a large number of mp's including Starmer had not moved heaven and earth to change Labour's offering re Brexit in 2019 and then,  unless I missed it , not a single one admitted it had anything to do with the defeat. I also blame Corbyn for capitulating.

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8 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I would have more sympathy with this view if a large number of mp's including Starmer had not moved heaven and earth to change Labour's offering re Brexit in 2019 and then,  unless I missed it , not a single one admitted it had anything to do with the defeat. I also blame Corbyn for capitulating.

I think with the vast majority of MPs and members being Remainers I don't think yours is a tenable position to take

You could easily argue that more votes would have been lost to the LDs and Greens whilst picking up very few Brexit supporters who were heartily distrustful of Corbyn.

I think Corbyn was in an impossible position, tbh,

If he'd shown leadership on Brexit and tried to take people with him from the start on whatever his true position was then that probably would have been better but that's not really how he rolled.

Great bloke, poor leader

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Labour were the only major party with that size of Brexit issue. The Tories and Lib Dems were practically all on side for their differing positions, while Labour was roughly two-thirds against Brexit, with the kicker being that the smaller portion were in more vulnerable constituencies on the whole. The 2017 offering of backing the decision but getting the best deal worked really well, but was steamrollered by Remain mps into a decision in 2019 that ( along with Corbyn as a personality  ) was the great reason for the smashing we got. I personally doubt that the red wall would have been decimated with the 2017 plan implemented in 2019.

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The attempt when switching from ‘we accept the result’ to ‘final say including remain’ was clearly to get the remainers to vote for Labour and without pissing the leavers off. I think that was actually the fairest way out of the mess. However, it was so, so poorly communicated - especially by Corbyn in a number of interviews - that it just didn’t wash. Labour were in a really tough position with Brexit and there’s absolutely no doubt it had an impact on the election margin, but there was more than that. Corbyn went into the election with the lowest satisfaction ratings for 50 years. The manifesto was too insanely long and overly detailed for it to resonate; with policies seemingly thrown in last minute. Clearly the overall strategy was off, not just a switch in Brexit policy. 

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1 hour ago, mattyq said:

 

If he'd shown leadership on Brexit and tried to take people with him from the start on whatever his true position was then that probably would have been better but that's not really how he rolled.

Great bloke, poor leader

The party would have stiffed him even more than they did.

 

Brexit fucked Labour. Completely and utterly fucked them.

 

Corbyn wasn't a very good orator. He was too soft and accepting on lots of stuff, the nice guy ploy had limited scope. He appointed some completed idiots to the shadow cabinet (although the pool of "talent" wasn't exactly heaving with quality). He prioritised things the majority of people don't give a fuck about. He pissed around on the anti-semitism issue and ended up tamely accepting the criticism and being fucked by the press every single day on it. He looked scruffy at times, utterly irrelevant in my opinion but not to many voters. His baggage of clearly being against the monarchy, against nuclear weapons, and against many of the things that are seen as being patriotic (shooting shepherds in the middle east, pretending the UK is better than other countries at things it clearly isn't, etc, etc). And many more things. He was, and is, a very decent man and an extremely good campaigner. He wasn't a leader really. He put himself up for the job because the pool of people that were actually democratic socialists and over the age of about 14 in the PLP consisted of him, Abbott, McDonnell, and a couple of others in their 80s. Thanks to Blair and Mandelson gutting the party for over a decade. 

 

However, no position of his was going to win an election in 2019. Pro remain and he wins about three seats north of Watford. Pro Brexit and loads of seats in the South are handed to the Tories as the Lib Dems and Greens increase their vote. Somewhere in between and, well, we saw what happened. They lost several seats from all over the country.

 

The chance was in 2017, and he was fucked by some of the most shameless fucking cunts in politics. People that have shat all over their constituents and handed the country over to one of the worst collection of humans to have been involved in Western politics in several decades. 

 

But, as others have said, it's done now. And I'm not actually sure why I typed this. I'm off for a twix.

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40 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

The chance was in 2017, and he was fucked by some of the most shameless fucking cunts in politics. People that have shat all over their constituents and handed the country over to one of the worst collection of humans to have been involved in Western politics in several decades.

A lot of them genuinely lost their minds, it seems to me. The article Chris Leslie's wife wrote after the last election about why they formed Change UK is just pure insanity, and I get the impression she fully believes every single word of it. Just an incredible period in British politics.

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1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

A lot of them fully lost their minds, it seems. The article Chris Leslie's wife wrote after the last election about why they formed Change UK is just pure insanity, and I get the impression she fully believes every single word of it. Just an incredible period in British politics.

They're largely just empty suits. No intelligence, integrity, conviction. Nothing. If someone told you Chris Leslie was an estate agent you wouldn't bat an eyelid. 

 

The process of selecting candidates must have involved a deep psychological analysis that ensured there was absolutely nothing of substance to these tedious piles of cunt putty.

 

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