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Keir Starmer

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6 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

Priti Patel needs a fucking good shoeing the shit smirking evil cunt!

This should be the Labour Party slogan 

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1 hour ago, skend04 said:

No 'coulda woulda shouldas' about it. The red wall went blue in part due to Corbyn. Hugely transformative for the country I would say.

Or how the media portrayed Corbyn. His treatment was obscene but his reaction too it was weak. The vast majority of us are fucking imbeciles, billionaires dont own media because they want to inform the public. The saying was we are lions led by donkeys but the truth is we are sheep led by wolves. Most of us deserve to get fucked over. Im not a particularly vindictive person but I hope those who changed their vote from Labour to Tory really feel the worst of tory policy.

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6 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Thank you for your fascinating contribution. 

In a world where some think he’s the answer to everything, there’s not much more to say. Seriously, I’m sick of hearing his name, but if you want a proper answer then fine, but it’s not going to be fascinating or constructive.

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11 hours ago, skend04 said:

No 'coulda woulda shouldas' about it. The red wall went blue in part due to Corbyn. Hugely transformative for the country I would say.

It's debatable whether their perception of Corbyn was based on to real life or whether it was the bogeyman invented by the media.

The other deciding factors were the perception of Labour as a Remain party (a perception which came from the anti-Corbyn wing of the party) and the lie that Labour’s manifesto was unaffordable. 

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10 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

In a world where some think he’s the answer to everything, there’s not much more to say. Seriously, I’m sick of hearing his name, but if you want a proper answer then fine, but it’s not going to be fascinating or constructive.

There's always the option of just scrolling past when you've got nothing to say and you're sick of the subject. 

 

Try it.

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7 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

It's debatable whether their perception of Corbyn was based on to real life or whether it was the bogeyman invented by the media.

The other deciding factors were the perception of Labour as a Remain party (a perception which came from the anti-Corbyn wing of the party) and the lie that Labour’s manifesto was unaffordable. 


Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

Tje media we’re beneath contempt, but you know the game you sign up for, rightly or wrongly.

 

Talk of jam and allotments, the private school debacle, the believing the hype after 2017, the anti-Semitic definition farce, not being able to lead and unite new and old labour voters, letting momentum open their gobs far to often and badly. The list goes on. 2019 was a disaster of his own making, or if he’s not to blame then it’s the people around him for plowing that furrow, and if the latter is the case it only shows what a poor leader he would have been.
 

A perfect storm of sorts, he gave them the ammunition, that’s all they needed.

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2 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:


Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

Tje media we’re beneath contempt, but you know the game you sign up for, rightly or wrongly.

 

Talk of jam and allotments, the private school debacle, the believing the hype after 2017, the anti-Semitic definition farce, not being able to lead and unite new and old labour voters, letting momentum open their gobs far to often and badly. The list goes on. 2019 was a disaster of his own making, or if he’s not to blame then it’s the people around him for plowing that furrow, and if the latter is the case it only shows what a poor leader he would have been.
 

A perfect storm of sorts, he gave them the ammunition, that’s all they needed.

He definitely needed the support of his MPs - which should be a given for any leader; MPs can disagree on any individual points, but it should always be underwritten by a belief that Labour in power are better than Tories in power - and the way some of the messaging was mishandled (best exemplified by the a/s Code of Conduct farce, when an easily-disprovable lie was allowed to become the accepted narrative) suggests that he needed to be tougher and shrewder in appointing people to some of the key posts.

 

As people continue to die because of the disastrous negligence of the Tory kleptocrats, I am going to keep getting wistful for what we could have had.

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52 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

There's always the option of just scrolling past when you've got nothing to say and you're sick of the subject. 

 

Try it.

But I did have something to say. You just didn’t like it because what I was really saying is your previous Corbyn love-In posts were retarded. You’re not stupid, you know what I meant. ‘He’s the answer to everything’. Except, of course, how to win an election. 

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1 hour ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

He definitely needed the support of his MPs - which should be a given for any leader; MPs can disagree on any individual points, but it should always be underwritten by a belief that Labour in power are better than Tories in power - and the way some of the messaging was mishandled (best exemplified by the a/s Code of Conduct farce, when an easily-disprovable lie was allowed to become the accepted narrative) suggests that he needed to be tougher and shrewder in appointing people to some of the key posts.

 

As people continue to die because of the disastrous negligence of the Tory kleptocrats, I am going to keep getting wistful for what we could have had.

Politics is a dirty business, this isn’t news, Corbyn is a proven failure I’m afraid.

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2 hours ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

But I did have something to say. You just didn’t like it because what I was really saying is your previous Corbyn love-In posts were retarded. You’re not stupid, you know what I meant. ‘He’s the answer to everything’. Except, of course, how to win an election. 

Your "something to say" was (and I quote) "Corbyn".

 

That was it.

 

It's not that I didn't like it, it was just so utterly pointless. 

 

Incidentally, I've never posted anything like a "Corbyn love-in" post or anything suggesting he's "the answer to everything". To pretend I have is just silly.  I posted a tweet that I thought was an interesting compare/contrast between the current and previous party leaders.

 

Also, I've never thought that party leaders are - or should be  - wholly responsible for the electoral fate of the party. 

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3 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Your "something to say" was (and I quote) "Corbyn".

 

That was it.

 

It's not that I didn't like it, it was just so utterly pointless.

No, I've told you twice what the point was. 

3 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Incidentally, I've never posted anything like a "Corbyn love-in"

That tweet you posted absolutely was a Corbyn love in. To pretend otherwise is an insult. 

4 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I posted a tweet that I thought was an interesting compare/contrast between the current and previous party leaders.

I thought it was ridiculous. I'm not being glib, I think it's ridiculous to make that sort of comparison whilst leaving out *quite* a lot of other factors. It's a bullshit tweet by somebody with no real grip on reality. You say you see nothing that says he can win an election. Fine; look harder. What's relevant in the popularity contest that is an election is how popular he is. He is now the most popular Labour leader since the last Labour leader to win an election. In just a few months, he turned around a 21 point deficit. You might not see any reason to believe he can win an election, but maybe you're just not looking in the right places. He has a long way to go and a lot of work to do, but those are reasons to believe he might have a chance. He's got a better chance than the last few leaders. 

 

I actually did spend a while responding to that post about Labour values and winning elections (after your reply to my Corbyn comment). It's actually well wide of the mark on almost every front. I got a call before posting it hasn't saved. Long and short of it was Keir Hardie was a racist so Labour suck and everything sucks. HTH.

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Love how the Corbyn fan boys gripe about how his MPs worked against him yet are quite happy with the fact that he was by any measure the most disloyal MP of all when he was a backbencher. Outstanding stuff. in any event it means nothing, the man is a proven loser.

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Yes, the only slight difference was Corbyn was in the massive majority of cases voting against the government not trying to help them. I am sure he sits in the dark most nights mulling over his disloyalty on Iraq and imposing austerity.

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13 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Yes, the only slight difference was Corbyn was in the massive majority of cases voting against the government not trying to help them. I am sure he sits in the dark most nights mulling over his disloyalty on Iraq and imposing austerity.

Much like anybody else, I could care less what the irrelevant loser does or doesn’t do, he had his chance, he lost, we move on.

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I'm fairly sure that Corbyn has virtually no regrets at all. I mean that. When you're led purely by ideology rather than pragmatism, you can pretty much wash away anything. I think the only thing I ever heard him say he regrets was calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends. It's a shame he didn't become prime minister, but the truth is that he never will be.

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Should be a lot easier for you guys going forward as there are less and less labour mps in the shadow cabinet who are not in line with their Tory counterparts, and now that it appears that any scruples are up for sale if a focus group tell Starmer and Rayner that it will help in a possible election in maybe 4 years time.

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But how watered down will Labours offering by the time Starmer worries about how every single thing is going to go down in every potential seat, and the fact that he appears to be trying to move away from mainly membership / union monies back to mainly backstage donors. Despite what you think I don't dislike him  , I am just massively frustrated that to me he appears to have thrown away a massive chance to bring the Labour party together by keeping the bones of the last manifesto but moving to one side the impractical and lesser important ones, while adding a better profile and media image than Corbyn. Instead of this he appears to have decided that the best way is to tack back quickly to the centre and have no real policy convictions himself. It may work however unlikely I feel it is to, but if it doesn't we will have wasted another 5 years or so on beige.

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10 minutes ago, sir roger said:

But how watered down will Labours offering by the time Starmer worries about how every single thing is going to go down in every potential seat, and the fact that he appears to be trying to move away from mainly membership / union monies back to mainly backstage donors. Despite what you think I don't dislike him  , I am just massively frustrated that to me he appears to have thrown away a massive chance to bring the Labour party together by keeping the bones of the last manifesto but moving to one side the impractical and lesser important ones, while adding a better profile and media image than Corbyn. Instead of this he appears to have decided that the best way is to tack back quickly to the centre and have no real policy convictions himself. It may work however unlikely I feel it is to, but if it doesn't we will have wasted another 5 years or so on beige.

I think that's very fair and hard to argue with.   And I think those who believe he will say anything to get elected then return to socialist policies when elected are kidding themselves.

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13 minutes ago, sir roger said:

But how watered down will Labours offering by the time Starmer worries about how every single thing is going to go down in every potential seat, and the fact that he appears to be trying to move away from mainly membership / union monies back to mainly backstage donors. Despite what you think I don't dislike him  , I am just massively frustrated that to me he appears to have thrown away a massive chance to bring the Labour party together by keeping the bones of the last manifesto but moving to one side the impractical and lesser important ones, while adding a better profile and media image than Corbyn. Instead of this he appears to have decided that the best way is to tack back quickly to the centre and have no real policy convictions himself. It may work however unlikely I feel it is to, but if it doesn't we will have wasted another 5 years or so on beige.


The exact argument could be made about keeping the key ideas as they were so roundly rejected last time though when we were decimated at the polls.

 

We’re in uncharted territory, we have the working class voting Tory and cheering on its very worst excesses.

 

The country politically, ideologically, spiritually and functionally is in a real fucking state and people have wilfully voted for it to continue.

 

Starmer, who has his faults, represents stability and seriousness, which at the moment would be very fucking welcome, and if the worst that can be thrown at him is he’s not the most left in a leftist party I’m more than happy with that if it means the Tories are not allowed to wreak havoc and fill the pockets of themselves and their friends whilst millions suffer.

 

 

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I think the weird thing about Corbin was that he’d achieved absolutely nothing as a backbencher. No private members bills, no ministerial office not even a successful campaign on a policy issue. This after 30 years in a safe seat. He was a blank canvas with no history of achievement. Despite this, his supporters thought he could be a prime minister. Maybe it’s becuase he’d achieved nothing they thought he could achieve anything. If you never try, you won’t ever fail so your supporters can keep their faith. It’s like those Indian gurus who claim they can levitate but never do it on camera. 

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i think the fact Corbyn had not been involved in government decisions and scandals helped him to be seen as a different type of politician to people who had got jaded with the usual bollocks. The old guard , Labour and Tory, with the aid of media and the original hierarchies seem to have stamped it out pretty quickly.

 

With regard to Bruce's point, I would argue that give or take a few peripheral clunkers ( last minute waspi women stuff and the free broadand etc) the manifesto was pretty good and the vast majority of the kicking Labour 2019 got was due to either the 'Corbyn' issue or changing the 2017 Brexit ideas , in fact the Tories started appropriating a few of the ideas during the election and thereafter.

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