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Keir Starmer


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9 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I think the timing is the shittest thing about Jones, et al having a go now.

 

Jones is a writer for the guardian, as far as I know he is not a member of the Labour party, I take little notice of what he writes but why the fuck shouldn't he express an opinion on a Tory mp crossing the floor to join the Labour Party when he is an opinion writer on British politics? Why should he wait a few days?  Jones does not work for the Labour Party he works for the Guardian. 

9 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

Take the small political win against the Tories, even if it is for a political party that you think is a bit shit. Then scrutinise the new Tory fella when the dust has settled. In fact, try and get him fucked off from standing at the next election if need be. 

Fair enough but as above Jones does not work for the Labour Party, he's employed as a political commentator for the Guardian, that's his job.

9 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

It has to be accepted by people on the left that the Labour party has been retaken by people that aren't democractic socialists

 

Why should it be a accepted by people on  the left?

9 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

and, in many cases, aren't even social democrats. That's just, well, what has happened. It's not going to change back any time soon. The opportunity was in 2017 and, admittedly, in no small part down to snaky little cunts within the party, it failed. 

Agreed.

9 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

Lump it, or build something else. But the constant faux surprise at Starmer or any of the other legion of weathervanes in the Labour party doing something a bit wet or a bit centrist is such a colossal waste of fucking time. 

 

Agree its all a bit shit.

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9 hours ago, Mudface said:

This is pretty much where I am now. I don't like Starmer much and don't trust him to implement the pledges he clearly made to get elected leader. I think Corbyn was treated shamefully and it's a pity that the ones calling for loyalty now and accepting shadow cabinet positions worked to undermine him and won't see any consequences. However, this current government is really dangerous, breathtakingly corrupt, callous and incompetent. Getting them out by any means necessary is the priority, we can argue about the direction of a future Labour government or coalition if and when that comes. For now, hammer the Tories, not each other.

I'm pretty much with this, I don't like it but 'm going to have to suck it because these cunts are changing the constitution in a very dangerous way, and this is only after two years in power, if they get another 4/5 it'll be fucking disastrous for British democracy, they have to be stopped.

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13 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I think the timing is the shittest thing about Jones, et al having a go now. Take the small political win against the Tories, even if it is for a political party that you think is a bit shit. Then scrutinise the new Tory fella when the dust has settled. In fact, try and get him fucked off from standing at the next election if need be. 

 

It has to be accepted by people on the left that the Labour party has been retaken by people that aren't democractic socialists and, in many cases, aren't even social democrats. That's just, well, what has happened. It's not going to change back any time soon. The opportunity was in 2017 and, admittedly, in no small part down to snaky little cunts within the party, it failed. 

 

Lump it, or build something else.

Why oh fucking why should people who have been Labour Party members for decades  "lump it, build something else"?

 

Why? Because an ex tory joined the Labour Party. Oh Give over.

Quote

 

But the constant faux surprise at Starmer or any of the other legion of weathervanes in the Labour party doing something a bit wet or a bit centrist is such a colossal waste of fucking time. 

 

It's not a colossal waste of time at all, policies like taking energy back into public hands and keeping our health service out of private hands are essential. It's a fight that needs to be fought. 

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20 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

"Islamophobia? Can't be arsed, to be honest. I'll just dig up the old smears that we're using to drive Socialists out of the party instead." 

 

 

What he meant was he along with most of Labour mps are fully briefed on smearing anyone with center/left veiws to get them the fuck out of the Labour party.

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13 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

What he meant was he along with most of Labour mps are fully briefed on smearing anyone with center/left veiws to get them the fuck out of the Labour party.

Their indifference to anti-Muslim and anti-black racism stinks almost as much as the hypocrisy that has them attacking Jewish Socialists while claiming to fight anti-Semitism. 

Cunts.

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11 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Their indifference to anti-Muslim and anti-black racism stinks almost as much as the hypocrisy that has them attacking Jewish Socialists while claiming to fight anti-Semitism. 

Cunts.

Look at the appalling lack of political/media support for the  Windrush generation, the UK government trying to deport people who have lived in this country since the 50/60s. 

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6 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Look at the appalling lack of political/media support for the  Windrush generation, the UK government trying to deport people who have lived in this country since the 50/60s. 

Putting the morals to one side it seems a poor political decision by the Labour party also , as the sidelining of any ethnic / religious minorities other than a small pocket of Jewish people aligned to the BoD or JLM doesn't stack up numbers-wise. Maybe they feel that the other minorities will vote Labour anyway , but I'm not convinced.

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21 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Did that Wakeford defection backfire? Labour should surely  be 15+ points ahead.

 

 

Well, no. 34% ish marries up with the Brexit vote. The Tories absorbed all the mental Kippers so they'll usually poll at around that average. Plus sacking a Muslim minister would have cheered the hearts of traditional Tories. Good for a bounce that. Oh, forgot about the lifting of restrictions. 

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23 minutes ago, skend04 said:

Well, no. 34% ish marries up with the Brexit vote. The Tories absorbed all the mental Kippers so they'll usually poll at around that average. Plus sacking a Muslim minister would have cheered the hearts of traditional Tories. Good for a bounce that. Oh, forgot about the lifting of restrictions. 

'A broad brush seldom paints an accurate picture' and you've certainly used one there.

 

1, not all brexit voters were Conservative voters so your 34% quip carries no weight. 

2. The poll was conducted before the Muslim minister story, plus a lot of Muslims vote tory anyway, look at your billionaire chicken factory mates.

3, the lifting of restrictions is a valid point and may have contributed to a small Tory bounce but the big story last week was the Tory deflection.

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17 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

'A broad brush seldom paints an accurate picture' and you've certainly used one there.

 

1, not all brexit voters were Conservative voters so your 34% quip carries no weight. 

2. The poll was conducted before the Muslim minister story, plus a lot of Muslims vote tory anyway, look at your billionaire chicken factory mates.

3, the lifting of restrictions is a valid point and may have contributed to a small Tory bounce but the big story last week was the Tory deflection.

1. The 34% is around the amount that Tories and Kippers would amount too, a bit of give and take with traditional Tories and Labour voters that voted how they did in 2016 doesn't change that much.

2. 2 Sisters owners aren't Muslim. I won't say this comment is racist, just that it shows the complete ignorance us of South Asian heritage have to put up with.

3. Yes the bounce has to be factored in, some dopes are easily satisfied by going shopping without masks.

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He is fucking useless. Labour not even trying to properly condemn the Tories' new Universal Credit sanctions programme today was the most final of straws. It would take an awful lot for me to get out of bed to vote for Labour when the current leadership's most notable achievement is making the Liberal Democrats look left-wing by comparison.

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I'd have thought those of us who hate these Tories and want them out would be pleased that the last Survation poll showed Labour 10 points ahead and today's IpsosMori showed Labour 9 points ahead, but I guess that's not everyone's main motivation. It'll be interesting if rumours of the Corbyn party are true, those who are more concerned with him or - more legitimately, in my view - pushing his previous manifesto can decide what they want to do. 

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1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Reasonably interesting discussion bar Jess Phillips, who turned up late, unprepared, was generally an embarrassing fucking mess, and inadvertently made the best case for what she was supposed to be arguing against.

 

It's interesting and depressing in the sense that politics is realigning in the States and here. 

 

Michael Moore talked about it in capitalism a love story, how basically the democrats were the party of the working class and unions, but as that demographic changed they basically picked up a lot of Republican traits, big flashy rallies, American flags out the ass.

 

In the States and Britain now, the republicans and Tories seem to be moving away from being the party of the moneyed middle class and instead the party of the angry working class with a large white supremacist undertone. They're conservative, but what they're conserving is white rule (or at least that's what they're selling, in reality they puppet masters are just running a wizard of Oz show, all they want is to retain power and make money, think Steve Bannon on a Chinese billionaire's boat and lord Lebedev of Siberia.)

 

The democrats and labour sort of have to become the 'party of everyone else', but that's fucking hard to do, very fucking hard to do.

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1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I'd have thought those of us who hate these Tories and want them out would be pleased that the last Survation poll showed Labour 10 points ahead and today's IpsosMori showed Labour 9 points ahead, but I guess that's not everyone's main motivation. It'll be interesting if rumours of the Corbyn party are true, those who are more concerned with him or - more legitimately, in my view - pushing his previous manifesto can decide what they want to do. 

My problem is that Starmer seems to be obsessed with punishing the same people as the Tories - namely the poor and vulnerable. I did, briefly, feel good about the poll lead, until it struck me that’s all it was; not New Labour, which, in its early stages, was a relatively ambitious project that made a tangible difference to lives across the country, but Feel-good Labour - making you feel good because they’re ahead of the Tories, but offering almost the same policy-wise.
 

If he comes up with a plan to properly overhaul an inhumane welfare system and a solution to the fact that people working all hours on a shit wage are being told they don’t earn enough to rent a house, let alone buy, I’ll gladly give his party my vote, even though it would be a token gesture in my ruby-red constituency.

 

That’s my threshold. Doesn’t even need to pay lip-service to nationalising public services.

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Just now, TheDrowningMan said:

My problem is that Starmer seems to be obsessed with punishing the same people as the Tories - namely the poor and vulnerable.

Interesting perspective. I can only speak from what I've seen of him and Labour, but they certainly don't seem to be out to punish the poor and vulnerable to me mate. Genuinely don't think that's his bag at all (especially considering his track record). What is it about him/them that says to you they're out to do that? 

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1 minute ago, TheDrowningMan said:

My problem is that Starmer seems to be obsessed with punishing the same people as the Tories - namely the poor and vulnerable.
 

If he comes up with a plan to properly overhaul an inhumane welfare system and a solution to the fact that people working all hours on a shit wage are being told they don’t earn enough to rent a house, let alone buy, I’ll gladly give his party my vote, even though it would be a token gesture in my ruby-red constituency.

 

That’s my threshold. Doesn’t even need to pay lip-service to nationalising public services.

 

The fact debates about Labour being electable are even being had while we're under the yoke of a quite possible bona fide criminal regime shows you where the problem is.

 

Any Labour government would be better than this crowd, Corbyn at the helm or Starmer, fuck it, the SNP can invade for all I care.

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I'd like to think that Starmer's policy is to keep Labour's collective head down, and just not be as shit as the Tories up to the next election. Offer something bland and non-threatening so the moderate voters plump for Labour as a safe pair of hands, then implement a more progressive centre left manifesto once elected. I won't hold my breath though.

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