Keir Starmer

[Section_31]

32 minutes ago, skend04 said:

With who?

The Tories are the Boris Johnson party. If there was anyone that could universally appeal to the broad spectrum of voters that Johnson did, up til recently, those letters would have been going into the 1922 Committee by now. 

Jeremy Hunt, they've been lubing him up for ages, he sticks his snout in now and again to kick off but doesn't get involved in cabinet shit. They want him untainted. 

[skend04]

58 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Jeremy Hunt, they've been lubing him up for ages, he sticks his snout in now and again to kick off but doesn't get involved in cabinet shit. They want him untainted. 

Oh yeah. Forgot about him. Ah, Brownie could well be right.

[Gnasher]

On 13/12/2021 at 00:40, Kevin D said:

 

No, I'm not going to listen to him being called a thug by you.

'cringe'

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Brownie said:

Nah, the Tories will replace BJ and they’ll start polling well again.

I wouldn't underestimate Johnsons appeal within a certain portion of the Tory Party or the electorate at large.

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

 

 

Half price Colombian will certainly gain a few votes but I think he's got too much back baggage up the back passage to win over the tory blue rinse/Church of England types has Michael.

 

[Section_31]

25 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I wouldn't underestimate Johnsons appeal within a certain portion of the Tory Party or the electorate at large.

You could say that about Thatcher and they still dropkicked her into the phantom zone when she didn't suit their agenda. 

 

You're talking about a political philosophy that's completely built around the individual, it's like a pirate ship or a gangster's social club, behind the smiles absolutely everyone there bar none is thinking about their next move to get what they want at everyone else's expense. 

 

Johnson is a lightning rod, he always has been,  they saw the Brexit fallout coming even before Covid turned up, now he suits for both. Let him soak up all the bad feeling, it's not the Tories doing this it's Johnson.

 

Ask yourself why the media have been so able and willing to peddle the nonsense that this absolute buffoon and his hareem of half-wits like Raab and Patel have somehow come to hold the Tory party - an organisation which represents the interests of a class of people who've pulled the strings in this country for literally thousands of years - in their iron grip? 

 

They haven't,  that's just the narrative that suits. Lied to the queen, trying to fuck over the Lords - heavens no not the Lords - they're our only buffer against his machiavellian madness - trying to dismantle our institutions, however will we stop him?

 

We'll let him get so far and then the Tories will ride to the rescue, read that back and consider how bonkers it is, but I guarantee that's what'll happen and that's how it'll be sold. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 hours ago, skend04 said:

With who?

The Tories are the Boris Johnson party. If there was anyone that could universally appeal to the broad spectrum of voters that Johnson did, up til recently, those letters would have been going into the 1922 Committee by now. 

I saw a headline tipping Patel. It all depends on how strong they think the pro-drowning vote is.

[Gnasher]

34 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

You could say that about Thatcher and they still dropkicked her into the phantom zone when she didn't suit their agenda. 

 

You're talking about a political philosophy that's completely built around the individual, it's like a pirate ship or a gangster's social club, behind the smiles absolutely everyone there bar none is thinking about their next move to get what they want at everyone else's expense. 

 

Johnson is a lightning rod, he always has been,  they saw the Brexit fallout coming even before Covid turned up, now he suits for both. Let him soak up all the bad feeling, it's not the Tories doing this it's Johnson.

 

Ask yourself why the media have been so able and willing to peddle the nonsense that this absolute buffoon and his hareem of half-wits like Raab and Patel have somehow come to hold the Tory party - an organisation which represents the interests of a class of people who've pulled the strings in this country for literally thousands of years - in their iron grip? 

 

They haven't,  that's just the narrative that suits. Lied to the queen, trying to fuck over the Lords - heavens no not the Lords - they're our only buffer against his machiavellian madness - trying to dismantle our institutions, however will we stop him?

 

We'll let him get so far and then the Tories will ride to the rescue, read that back and consider how bonkers it is, but I guarantee that's what'll happen and that's how it'll be sold. 

I honestly don't disagree, my point is at this moment the upper tories and 1922 committee understand Johnsons appeal in the english shires and beyond, no one in the Tory party will have as near as much pull with the 'Boris is just being Boris, give him a bit of slack'  crowd.

 

Politics over the past decade has become a game show, both Johnson and Trump understand this and played it to maximum effect.

 

Edit; main runners; Gove, to much personal.. Rabb; thick as shit would fold in an election campaign; Truss; Same as Rabb, vacant. Hunt; got hammered by Johnson in leadership election and tainted across country after his disastrous time as health secretary.  

 

 

[Baltar]

On 13/12/2021 at 19:06, Elite said:

Well that was an opportunity well and truly wasted.

Basically he said the Tories are useless and shit but we'll support their measures nonetheless. Nice one, Keir. Thanks for the alternative from Labour!

[skend04]

1 minute ago, Baltar said:

Basically he said the Tories are useless and shit but we'll support their measures nonetheless. Nice one, Keir. Thanks for the alternative from Labour!

All the polling suggests that the public are in favour of Plan B restrictions. Why make Labour party the news instead of letting the Tories wallow in their mess?

This anti-Starmer stance is now getting all a bit jilted fangirl when the party itself agrees with the extra restrictions.

[Arniepie]

5 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I honestly don't disagree, my point is at this moment the upper tories and 1922 committee understand Johnsons appeal in the english shires and beyond, no one in the Tory party will have as near as much pull with the 'Boris is just being Boris, give him a bit of slack'  crowd.

 

Politics over the past decade has become a game show, both Johnson and Trump understand this and played it to maximum effect.

 

Edit; main runners; Gove, to much personal.. Rabb; thick as shit would fold in an election campaign; Truss; Same as Rabb, vacant. Hunt; got hammered by Johnson in leadership election and tainted across country after his disastrous time as health secretary.  

 

 

Sunak surely 

[Arniepie]

6 hours ago, Section_31 said:

You could say that about Thatcher and they still dropkicked her into the phantom zone when she didn't suit their agenda. 

 

You're talking about a political philosophy that's completely built around the individual, it's like a pirate ship or a gangster's social club, behind the smiles absolutely everyone there bar none is thinking about their next move to get what they want at everyone else's expense. 

 

Johnson is a lightning rod, he always has been,  they saw the Brexit fallout coming even before Covid turned up, now he suits for both. Let him soak up all the bad feeling, it's not the Tories doing this it's Johnson.

 

Ask yourself why the media have been so able and willing to peddle the nonsense that this absolute buffoon and his hareem of half-wits like Raab and Patel have somehow come to hold the Tory party - an organisation which represents the interests of a class of people who've pulled the strings in this country for literally thousands of years - in their iron grip? 

 

They haven't,  that's just the narrative that suits. Lied to the queen, trying to fuck over the Lords - heavens no not the Lords - they're our only buffer against his machiavellian madness - trying to dismantle our institutions, however will we stop him?

 

We'll let him get so far and then the Tories will ride to the rescue, read that back and consider how bonkers it is, but I guarantee that's what'll happen and that's how it'll be sold. 

It's been noticeable there has been a distinct lack of vocal support for him in the last week or so but he still seems to have the backing of their lackeys in the media.

We seem to have been saying for years he will be jettisoned but somehow he seems to bluster his way through it.

[Barrington Womble]

10 hours ago, skend04 said:

9 points ahead. Whether by design or purely by accident, he's heading in the right direction. 20 points is surely not that far off.

I think he's just trying to do what Biden did and just try to be nothing in order not to isolate anyone. So I reckon the lead is by design, whether he can hold onto that for 3 years remains to be seen. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 minutes ago, Baltar said:

Basically he said the Tories are useless and shit but we'll support their measures nonetheless. Nice one, Keir. Thanks for the alternative from Labour!

What do you want him to say?

 

"The scientific advisors say this stuff is needed to keep people safe, but the blue team are voting for it, so we'll vote against it."

 

Fuck that Mitch McConnell shit. Labour were right to vote against the cranks and weirdos on the Tory back benches.

[Moo]

1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

Sunak surely 

Almost certainly. The racists who support Johnson will bend over backwards to vote for Sunak in order to demonstrate how not racist they are, this should be obvious to the Tories.  I don't think Sunak has much long term appeal, he seems an empty vessel bereft of any character, but he should have enough to get them through the next GE from when they can continue to carry out their vile plans.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Sunak is an insanely wealthy 2ft tall tory. Those combinations can't produce anything other than a grade A thundercunt. I dont begrudge him his 90 quid sliders or 100 quid travel mug the guy has money its absurd to expect him to live like he hasn't, I know people with average money who spend fortunes on frivolous shite, most of us do. I'm just suspicious of a goldmine sachs, hedgefunder, millionaire married to a billionaire becoming a public servant who has the interests of anybody other than a tiny wealthy elite at heart. 

 

That's democracy though, he is entitled to believe a country should have little to no social security/programmes or safety nets,  that panders entirely to the wealthy, maybe even be authoritarian and then run for public office with the hope of making that more of a reality. Even though I'm suspicious of him I'd take him over Gecko Gove everyday of the week.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

8 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What do you want him to say?

 

"The scientific advisors say this stuff is needed to keep people safe, but the blue team are voting for it, so we'll vote against it."

 

Fuck that Mitch McConnell shit. Labour were right to vote against the cranks and weirdos on the Tory back benches.

But he has said he is against passports and mandatory vaccines two days ago. So what’s the fucking point of the prick if he goes against what he says? 
 

He’s an absolutely pathetic opposition leader.

[Elysian Red]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Sunak is an insanely wealthy 2ft tall tory. Those combinations can't produce anything other than a grade A thundercunt. I dont begrudge him his 90 quid sliders or 100 quid travel mug the guy has money its absurd to expect him to live like he hasn't, I know people with average money who spend fortunes on frivolous shite, most of us do. I'm just suspicious of a goldmine sachs, hedgefunder, millionaire married to a billionaire becoming a public servant who has the interests of anybody other than a tiny wealthy elite at heart. 

 

That's democracy though, he is entitled to believe a country should have little to no social security/programmes or safety nets,  that panders entirely to the wealthy, maybe even be authoritarian and then run for public office with the hope of making that more of a reality. Even though I'm suspicious of him I'd take him over Gecko Gove everyday of the week.

I wouldn’t.

 

I want the Tory leader to be a visibly sneaky cunt. I want him doing u-turns, going back on his word/reversing policy, all in full view of the voters while the media turn against them. Maybe finally it will dawn on the public, these people are laughing at you.

 

A stabler (or less scandal-ridden) setup with somebody like Sunak will result in the tories doing their tory shit silently, while continuing to dismantle ways of opposing them.

 

Unfortunately, I think Sunak will become leader as he’ll be seen as untainted, and also they can pretend they’re not racist and get away with sloganeering while doing fuck all on inequality. 

[Arniepie]

Still can't bring himself to ask for the buffoon to go.

[Manny]

I'm still not 100% in on him, but I can at least see something resembling a strategy to emerge.

 

Voting in favour of Plan B - absolutely the right thing to do from a public health perspective. If he opposes it, then it doesn't pass and Johnson gets to blame the lack of Covid public health measures on Labour, which damages the "sensible Labour protecting lives" message. I'd have liked to have seen more "we'll vote for it in exchange for sick pay and other welfare provisions", but that risked a game of brinkmanship: what if Johnson refused to offer it? He could let the vote tank, appease his backbenchers AND blame Labour for it. I don't think there's an overwhelmingly good way of responding to it, so in that situation I'm happy enough for the party to do the right thing for the national interest.

 

Calling for Johnson to go - well, yeah, but in fairness I've never really seen the point in an opposition party to do it. They're inherently calling for the whole ruling party to go so it's kind of implied they want the leader to go as well. But at the moment, is there not an argument that the longer he stays the more damage he's doing? There's definitely an element of  "he and they overpromise and underdeliver, and aren't trustworthy" in Labour's messaging at the moment because people are starting - finally - to wake up to this shit and it's therefore cutting through. You can be many things in politics - reprehensible, callous, useless, corrupt, you name it. But you can't be a hypocrite and they're looking like the worst kind of hypocrites at the moment.

 

Whether we're at this point yet I don't know, but there's always been an element of one way traffic to people's trust in politics. When Labour had the blame pinned on them for the financial crash, it's taken years for that loss of trust to go away: in many cases, it still hasn't - similarly when people turned on Major's sleazy party in the 90s it took the Tories years to rebuild. I've still not forgiven the LDs for taking my vote and giving it to Cameron in 2010 (even if it was a tactical one which made no difference in the grand scheme of things). If Johnson is starting to turn people off the Tories and has allowed the rot to set in, there's no guarantee that Rishi sweeps in and gains them all back overnight and reverses it - so in that case, the longer Johnson stays the more people he's (hopefully) adding to the "the Tories can fuck off for the next election - and maybe the one after" list.

 

It's all hope and I've got no idea whether it'll work. But as @Barrington Womble says above, when you're opposing a useless populist, maybe the best way to do it is the Biden approach: to let the idiot perjure himself and make sure the electorate can't accuse you of the same thing.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

3 hours ago, Manny said:

I'm still not 100% in on him, but I can at least see something resembling a strategy to emerge.

 

Voting in favour of Plan B - absolutely the right thing to do from a public health perspective. If he opposes it, then it doesn't pass and Johnson gets to blame the lack of Covid public health measures on Labour, which damages the "sensible Labour protecting lives" message. I'd have liked to have seen more "we'll vote for it in exchange for sick pay and other welfare provisions", but that risked a game of brinkmanship: what if Johnson refused to offer it? He could let the vote tank, appease his backbenchers AND blame Labour for it. I don't think there's an overwhelmingly good way of responding to it, so in that situation I'm happy enough for the party to do the right thing for the national interest.

 

Calling for Johnson to go - well, yeah, but in fairness I've never really seen the point in an opposition party to do it. They're inherently calling for the whole ruling party to go so it's kind of implied they want the leader to go as well. But at the moment, is there not an argument that the longer he stays the more damage he's doing? There's definitely an element of  "he and they overpromise and underdeliver, and aren't trustworthy" in Labour's messaging at the moment because people are starting - finally - to wake up to this shit and it's therefore cutting through. You can be many things in politics - reprehensible, callous, useless, corrupt, you name it. But you can't be a hypocrite and they're looking like the worst kind of hypocrites at the moment.

 

Whether we're at this point yet I don't know, but there's always been an element of one way traffic to people's trust in politics. When Labour had the blame pinned on them for the financial crash, it's taken years for that loss of trust to go away: in many cases, it still hasn't - similarly when people turned on Major's sleazy party in the 90s it took the Tories years to rebuild. I've still not forgiven the LDs for taking my vote and giving it to Cameron in 2010 (even if it was a tactical one which made no difference in the grand scheme of things). If Johnson is starting to turn people off the Tories and has allowed the rot to set in, there's no guarantee that Rishi sweeps in and gains them all back overnight and reverses it - so in that case, the longer Johnson stays the more people he's (hopefully) adding to the "the Tories can fuck off for the next election - and maybe the one after" list.

 

It's all hope and I've got no idea whether it'll work. But as @Barrington Womble says above, when you're opposing a useless populist, maybe the best way to do it is the Biden approach: to let the idiot perjure himself and make sure the electorate can't accuse you of the same thing.

Said the same (less eloquently though) to my missus last night. As it feels like it’s all about the long game, by letting that fat scruffy twat back himself so far into a corner he’ll have ate himself 14 times over before he realises.

 

The thing is, I’m not convinced he’s got the conviction to pull it off. 

[Gnasher]

32 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Said the same (less eloquently though) to my missus last night. As it feels like it’s all about the long game, by letting that fat scruffy twat back himself so far into a corner he’ll have ate himself 14 times over before he realises.

 

The thing is, I’m not convinced he’s got the conviction to pull it off. 

 

I agree, I don't want to be too critical of Starmer just for the sake of being critical but I wonder ifs he's got the political killer instinct to pull off a victory against the tories. Today in prime ministers questions was an example, Johnson brushed off Starmer saying he supported the government for the greater good, but if Starmer had demanded the Labour Party would only support the government under certain conditions ( an example some mentioned was he could have demanded statutory sick pay for those unable to work because of the virus)Johnson couldn't have rebutted that claim.

 

Tony Blair had a lot to answer for and was deeply flawed but he knew how to play the political game, he knew how to win, I'm not sure Starmer and his team posses that killer instinct.

 

Anyway I hope this coming year sees the end of Johnson, I honestly can't see any the other torys getting as much leeway with the general public.

[Bjornebye]

#starmerout is trending on twitter. The replies are worth the read. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

Certainly another 'interesting' by- election result for Labour under Starmer; definitely a case of tactical voting but considering the Labour Party were going in hard on the Lib Dems right till the end it's hard to gauge how much? Labour lost half its vote and the Libs would've won anyway so they won this fair and square..

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

On 15/12/2021 at 07:25, Skidfingers McGonical said:

But he has said he is against passports and mandatory vaccines two days ago. So what’s the fucking point of the prick if he goes against what he says? 
 

He’s an absolutely pathetic opposition leader.

Johnson; Carrie; Sprogs and posh wallpaper would have all been leaving Downing Street today if Labour had joined the Lib Dems and not propped him up on that vote