Keir Starmer

[sir roger]

Biden has managed to keep his more radical element in the tent more or less as he sees how important energy and youth are on the ground , whereas Starmer is alienating a great portion of the more energetic supporters completely. Biden also has built a place for himself in the US political firmament over 40+ years whereas Starmer is a pretty new face and strangely enough for an ex DPP he seems to have no real political acumen and is a deathly orator.

[TheDrowningMan]

1 hour ago, Arniepie said:

Labour were in a no wim position over Brexit. 

It's easy to say all this soft Brexit stuff in hindsight but the most logical option would have been a 2md referendum. 

Not a couple of months before an election though. Whatever the position, it should have been unambiguous from 2017 onwards - not only would it provide clarity and make it harder to misrepresent the party’s position(s), it would give it ample opportunity to make its case and get people used to it over time.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

2 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

Not a couple of months before an election though. Should have been clear and unambiguous from 2017 onwards.

The messaging also got away from them. The Tories and their media were allowed to portray it as a sneaky attempt by the political elite to overthrow the democratic will of the people (when it was the opposite, if anything). Once that happened, we were fucked.

[TheDrowningMan]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The messaging also got away from them. The Tories and their media were allowed to portray it as a sneaky attempt by the political elite to overthrow the democratic will of the people (when it was the opposite, if anything). Once that happened, we were fucked.

It did, but Labour handed it to them on a plate.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Dosnt that suggest that the libs were a good deal more to the left and more in touch with the man in the street than they are today? Same with Labour.

In 1906 40% of the men in the street - and all of the women in the street - never had the vote anyway.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

It did, but Labour handed it to them on a plate.

True.

 

Imagine running a campaign so badly that you lose to a lying, corrupt cunt who hides in a fridge.

[Arniepie]

36 minutes ago, TheDrowningMan said:

Not a couple of months before an election though. Whatever the position, it should have been unambiguous from 2017 onwards - not only would it provide clarity and make it harder to misrepresent the party’s position(s), it would give it ample opportunity to make its case and get people used to it over time.

I just think they were in a bind

Oppose Brexit which is what the party wanted to do,and they lose a lot of those labour brexit areas.

Go for,even a soft Brexit, and they would be going against their own principles,as they largely, rightly thought leaving the eu was wrong.

Another referendum made perfect sense as there was still a chance we could crash out without a deal,which is what they desperately faught against.

The tories couldn't have planned it better if they had written it themselves 

What really fucked labour was the red wall simpletons who reasoned leaving the eu was more important than having a decent healthcare system or support for the poor.

If we are looking for people to blame for this current shambles, the labour party of 2019 would be way down the list.

[Arniepie]

25 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

True.

 

Imagine running a campaign so badly that you lose to a lying, corrupt cunt who hides in a fridge.

I think that says more about the electorate than anything else tbf.

Everyone with half a brain knows he is a lying corrupt twat..yet they still continue to back him

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

8 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Everyone with half a brain knows he is a lying corrupt twat.

 

That should have been Labour's slogan in response to "Get Brexit Done".

[sir roger]

Not looking like Scotland is responding to a leader moving the party to the right , either Sarwar or Starmer.

 

Falkirk by election

 

SNP    39.2 %   up 3.5%

TORY  38.9 %   up 6.8%

LABOUR   15.7 %  down 11.4 %

[Gnasher]

41 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

In 1906 40% of the men in the street - and all of the women in the street - never had the vote anyway.

You making that out to be like a bad thing?

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

Not looking like Scotland is responding to a leader moving the party to the right , either Sarwar or Starmer.

 

Falkirk by election

 

SNP    39.2 %   up 3.5%

TORY  38.9 %   up 6.8%

LABOUR   15.7 %  down 11.4 %

Good its all grim, really grim. It's only Wales that's not lost its fucking mind.

[sir roger]

That would be Wales , the only one of the three with a leader even pretending to have any socialist scruples , anybody might think there was a lesson there.

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, sir roger said:

That would be Wales , the only one of the three with a leader even pretending to have any socialist scruples , anybody might think there was a lesson there.

Probably, it's the air, look at the queen yesterday, comes into Wales and instantly turns into an older version of Greta Thunberg. Drakefords constantly moving the welsh labour party away from from the english labour party, wonder why?

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 hours ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

It would only be a good thing if it had a debt productivity ratio of more than 1, meaning that each pound spent would have to at least yield a pound increase in national output.

More than 1? Piece of piss.

7 hours ago, Jordy Brouwer said:

A million climate jobs

A £400 billion "national transformation fund"

A national and regional investment banks with £250 billion

A £150 billion social transformation fund

Year on year public section pay increases starting at 5%

Increasing health expenditure by 4.3% per year

A National Education Service

A National Energy Agency

A National Care Service

Free Broadband

Free Lifelong learning

There's just no way that these investments don't pay for themselves (even if they were, as you incorrectly imply, wholly funded by borrowing), both in simple terms of "put a pound in, get lots of pounds out" and much more so in terms of the savings from preparedness for climate change.

 

If an employer pays a worker, say, £15 an hour, they expect output worth more than £15 an hour, or they just wouldn't employ them; the same applies to the jobs mentioned here. Moreover, workers' wages go back into the economy - spent on goods and services, which is why you see very few welders or waiters named in the Pandora Papers. And if those workers were previously unemployed, then the Government saves whatever benefits it was previously paying them.   It's wrong to look on that pledge of a million green jobs as a burden, because Government spending on productive jobs boosts GDP.

 

The investment banks and investment funds are set up to lend money. As soon as they make a loan, that is shown as an asset in the national balance sheet; and rightly so. Then, of course, the borrowers do productive stuff (employ people, make goods, provide services) which adds to GDP and they also repay the loans.

 

The National Education Service didn't come with any spending promises: just a pledge to work with other parties and different stakeholders to come up with an approach to education that people could view the same way we view the NHS.

Lifelong learning opportunities are the best way to ensure you have a skilled and efficient national workforce, so there's plenty of payback there.

 

Free broadband is now recognised as a necessary public good, just like free roads and footpaths.

 

The care system absolutely needs investment to repair the damage of underfunding and too much public money going to dodgy private operators. There's no obvious economic payback from investment there, but as a rich country we can afford to let people see out their days in dignity. It won't register in GDP, but it will make the country better.

 

All told, there's nothing scary there at all.

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Me mum knows some fella involved with labour in Anfield,dont know the full story but apparently they are stopping local candidates starting and getting them imposed from outside.

Great stuff.

There are three upcoming council by-elections in Liverpool. Labour have decided to overrule the CLPs and they've appointed Luke fucking Akehurst to select the candidates.

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I think this fella has got some decent ideas; maybe he could be a good leader.

https://keirstarmer.com/plans/reformandunite/

 

[Anubis]

The future candidates programme is Stoke writ large, where Tristram Hunt (somebody as much a socialist as an apple is a banana) was parachuted in over a good local candidate, spent a few years sitting around doing fuck all (and I include his stint as shadow education secretary in that) before fucking off when the Victoria & Albert Museum came calling with his ‘dream job.’

 

I don’t begrudge him the V&A job (I’m sure he’s much better at it than he ever was an MP), but he fucked around running Labour’s majority in Stoke into the ground to the point they were vulnerable to UKIP. 
 

A lot of very determined socialist members, not just from Stoke but from around the UK, then did sterling groundwork to get the party over the line in the by-election. Those are the same members who the centrists don’t want in the party and certainly don’t want in their candidate programme. What’s worse is that many local candidates with good local knowledge and experience will be excluded.

[Vincent Vega]

Labour think they can do as they please in Liverpool as they think our voters have nowhere else to go, and this is why, the five safest seats in the country, and seven in the top 22. 

[Skidfingers McGonical]

32 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Labour think they can do as they please in Liverpool as they think our voters have nowhere else to go, and this is why, the five safest seats in the country, and seven in the top 22. 

There is a part of me that’s really wants them to have a proper shit show up here. Which isn’t a nice feeling really. 
 

The party arrogance was shown up in the last 4 elections. People will get fucked off eventually.

There’s a lot  of unraveling of Joe Anderson’s council going on and that’s going to play into peoples minds as well. For as much as Joanne Anderson might have the right plan, people don’t forget Labour fuck ups like they forget Tory ones (more outside of Liverpool that though)

 

The only problem for me is that if they do have a shit show, there is a chance that it could end up worse.
 

As long as the Lib Dem’s or Greens got in I don’t think that would be nowhere as bad a scenario to the Tories getting their mitts on the city. Small chance I know, but still enough for those cunts. 

[Arniepie]

10 hours ago, sir roger said:

Not looking like Scotland is responding to a leader moving the party to the right , either Sarwar or Starmer.

 

Falkirk by election

 

SNP    39.2 %   up 3.5%

TORY  38.9 %   up 6.8%

LABOUR   15.7 %  down 11.4 %

Are the snp really that right wing?

Obviously the big driving point up there is independence and they clearly want nothing to do with the current shit show down here?

Johnson in particular seems very unpopular up there. 

[Arniepie]

9 hours ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

There are three upcoming council by-elections in Liverpool. Labour have decided to overrule the CLPs and they've appointed Luke fucking Akehurst to select the candidates.

 

 

Yeah that's it

I dont think the ones from Anfield were allowed to stand and the 3 in the running are from outside the area.

A common sense prerequisite for a local councillor. 

[Section_31]

56 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Labour think they can do as they please in Liverpool as they think our voters have nowhere else to go, and this is why, the five safest seats in the country, and seven in the top 22. 

Was saying earlier, if someone created a Liverpool Party it would do well. Poss even get some local politicians to jump ship.

[Gnasher]

11 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

Are the snp really that right wing?

Obviously the big driving point up there is independence and they clearly want nothing to do with the current shit show down here?

Johnson in particular seems very unpopular up there. 

Johnson may be unpopular but the Scottish Torys are doing a lot better than Scottish Labour, this after Scotland has been plagued with a massive drug death crisis and an NHS in ruins. The Scots have rejected the Labour Party.