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Keir Starmer


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It’s going to get worse before it gets better.
 

 

 

Starmer’s team briefing Dan Hodges that they’d offered her a promotion. Dan. Fucking. Hodges. Meanwhile, on Sophie Ridge’s show Ian Murray insists it’s a promotion but couldn’t tell anyone what role she was offered. I suspect that is what was meant by shit lines for the press.

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52 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Not needled over me taking the piss out of a politician are you? 

Not really no, you could have been talking about the loyalty of any politician and it would have pissed me off.  I'm sick of reading about loyalty to the party leader (of any shade) - this should not be a thing but it has become so.  No MP should have loyalty to the leader, only to the general cause/principles/main policies, and most of all to their constituents.  As long as you're not actively undermining the leader then fuck loyalty to him/her/them.

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Just now, scottthecanuck said:

Becoming a bit of a circular firing squad.

It's a load of bollocks and a good example of why the left bubble needs popping is that we have (in a literal sense) Corbyn propagandists like Alex Nunns showing why Twitter is so powerful at spreading this sort of venom. It's a clear attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes by quoting a view about a speech that wasn't linked (so we can't properly understand what she means) and then putting 'new director of strategy' into the existing 'Starmer is a right winger slashing out at the left' framework to imply he is hiring somebody to further a right wing agenda. It's not fair to expect every reader to know she isn't actually 'new' but has been advising Labour for 20 years, including most significantly for Gordon Brown - that right wing nut - and spend years getting slapped down by the right for being associated with Brown. It's Labour being Labour again. Labour gon' Labe. It's eating itself. The sooner its finished the better. 

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12 minutes ago, Moo said:

Not really no, you could have been talking about the loyalty of any politician and it would have pissed me off.  I'm sick of reading about loyalty to the party leader (of any shade) - this should not be a thing but it has become so.  No MP should have loyalty to the leader, only to the general cause/principles/main policies, and most of all to their constituents.  As long as you're not actively undermining the leader then fuck loyalty to him/her/them.

OK fair enough.

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1 hour ago, Numero said:

That's going to need some backing up, Gnasher. 

That's why I put a question mark after it, positive its been claimed and she's probably ignored or denied it.

 

Not sure if entirely true or if taken out of context but my general points on Nandy stand. As I said she is a politician its not that surprising if she weighs her options to suit events.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Denny Crane said:

Never saw this quote before. 

 

 

 

 

For anyone doubting it.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2003/may/21/redbox.labour?__twitter_impression=true

 

Mandelson - unions bad in a party formed for workers out of unions, oiling and sunning yourself on a Russian oligarch’s yacht is good.

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26 minutes ago, Brownie said:

No, it needs to have its party rightly returned and the other cunts can fuck off and form their own.

Wonderful. Unity, etc. 
 

No, that’s not the left bubble that is being described. Still, as somebody who wants Labour to split I would be happy to see that. Then Labour can fuck off into irrelevance, as if it isn’t already, and let social democratic people from the left who are interested in making people’s lives better rather than pretending they’re superior because of their PDF. The the old left, Tory enablers, can all get together and be happy about how much better they are. Everyone’s happy. plenty of time for allotments and lying on Twitter. 

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1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

That's why I put a question mark after it, positive its been claimed and she's probably ignored or denied it.

 

Not sure if entirely true or if taken out of context but my general points on Nandy stand. As I said she is a politician its not that surprising if she weighs her options to suit events.

 

 

All I could find is Dianne Abbot saying that ‘they’ wanted to break him as a man. Then this tweet. Never seen anything solid. 

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1 minute ago, Numero said:

Still, as somebody who wants Labour to split

Is this a possibility? Would it be a new party or defections to LD and Greens? I didn't realize things were that polarized in Labour that an actual split was something that could happen. 

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55 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

Is this a possibility? Would it be a new party or defections to LD and Greens? I didn't realize things were that polarized in Labour that an actual split was something that could happen. 

I don't know how they can keep going like they are. 

 

The reason I'm so pissy about this and at the view that people like Brownie are taking is that I just want the Tories gone. The rest of this argument is a load of bollocks. 

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It'll just be an endless cycle of fighting for control of the party, imo. The factions aren't going to agree to dissolve the party and go their separate ways, and any that do go it alone will face a similar fate to the funny tinge lot. Even in WORST ELECTION FOR LABOUR EVER!!! it still got 10m votes. That's a helluva thing to just walk away from.

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1 hour ago, Numero said:

Wonderful. Unity, etc. 
 

No, that’s not the left bubble that is being described. Still, as somebody who wants Labour to split I would be happy to see that. Then Labour can fuck off into irrelevance, as if it isn’t already, and let social democratic people from the left who are interested in making people’s lives better rather than pretending they’re superior because of their PDF. The the old left, Tory enablers, can all get together and be happy about how much better they are. Everyone’s happy. plenty of time for allotments and lying on Twitter. 

Mate, if you think that Labour would disappear into obscurity and the Mandelsons of this world would retain loads of support, then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

The way I see it, with the support of the Trade Unions and a big proportion of the membership, what is left of Labour would be in a much better position to start from.

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1 hour ago, Brownie said:

Mate, if you think that Labour would disappear into obscurity and the Mandelsons of this world would retain loads of support, then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

The way I see it, with the support of the Trade Unions and a big proportion of the membership, what is left of Labour would be in a much better position to start from.

I don’t know how we are so far apart on this, dude. For two people who’d likely agree on probably 96.348% of policies, we are wildly different in where we stand on this. 
 

First thing I’d say is Mandelson can get swallowed by the earth and never resurface. I don’t know why this straw man is thrown out so often in the last year that the options are the working class heroes of the Corbyn clan or some evil demon headmaster. There’s plenty more space on the left than that. 
 

I have two questions. When was the last time a traditional Labour (like the one you just claimed need to have the party returned to them as they’re the natural roots of the party) type party with traditional old Labour values won an election in the UK? And also, when was the last time that any party like that won an election in any major, advanced economy in the world? I know it’ll be easier to answer a different question, and it will be a pain in the arse, but it’s important to think about when thinking about electability. 
 

Currently, I can name none in the top ten economies and one in the top twenty (14th, Spain). It’s generally socially liberal,  centre right or centre with a few centre left. Of the countries that are fairy similar to us, I can’t think of a single one. As for when a party like that last won an election here. Not in our lifetime. Think about that. Never since we’ve been alive has there been that type of party in power. 
 

My answer isn’t fucking Mandleson, it’s finding and developing a new way, coupled with an easy smile, good looks, intelligence and pragmatism. you wouldn’t think that, out of a nation of 70m, it’s be so fucky hard to find somebody like Arden or AOC or whoever, but Labour need to thoroughly remodernise, in my view, not go back to the days when old Labour where a powerhouse. They will never again win an election on that basis. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Duff Man said:

It'll just be an endless cycle of fighting for control of the party, imo. The factions aren't going to agree to dissolve the party and go their separate ways, and any that do go it alone will face a similar fate to the funny tinge lot. Even in WORST ELECTION FOR LABOUR EVER!!! it still got 10m votes. That's a helluva thing to just walk away from.

There was only one alternative, though. And they got more. So for the large amount of people who think they’re turd, it’s Labour or nowt. So that 10m is transferable. 
 

I’m with you though. It’s endless infighting all the way down. That’s why I’m talking about them needing to split. The idea of Labour splitting is so horrific that it’s beaten out by just one thing; not splitting and staying like this. It would take somebody fucking special to unite that lot. It would take somebody that both sides think is ‘their guy’. 

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2 minutes ago, Numero said:

There was only one alternative, though. And they got more. So for the large amount of people who think they’re turd, it’s Labour or nowt. So that 10m is transferable. 
 

I’m with you though. It’s endless infighting all the way down. That’s why I’m talking about them needing to split. The idea of Labour splitting is so horrific that it’s beaten out by just one thing; not splitting and staying like this. It would take somebody fucking special to unite that lot. It would take somebody that both sides think is ‘their guy’. 

Are you talking about Labour being terminated and two new parties emerging from the ashes? Coz if so I just don't see that ever happening (the termination of the party).

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35 minutes ago, Numero said:

I don’t know how we are so far apart on this, dude. For two people who’d likely agree on probably 96.348% of policies, we are wildly different in where we stand on this. 
 

First thing I’d say is Mandelson can get swallowed by the earth and never resurface. I don’t know why this straw man is thrown out so often in the last year that the options are the working class heroes of the Corbyn clan or some evil demon headmaster. There’s plenty more space on the left than that. 
 

I have two questions. When was the last time a traditional Labour (like the one you just claimed need to have the party returned to them as they’re the natural roots of the party) type party with traditional old Labour values won an election in the UK? And also, when was the last time that any party like that won an election in any major, advanced economy in the world? I know it’ll be easier to answer a different question, and it will be a pain in the arse, but it’s important to think about when thinking about electability. 
 

Currently, I can name none in the top ten economies and one in the top twenty (14th, Spain). It’s generally socially liberal,  centre right or centre with a few centre left. Of the countries that are fairy similar to us, I can’t think of a single one. As for when a party like that last won an election here. Not in our lifetime. Think about that. Never since we’ve been alive has there been that type of party in power. 
 

My answer isn’t fucking Mandleson, it’s finding and developing a new way, coupled with an easy smile, good looks, intelligence and pragmatism. you wouldn’t think that, out of a nation of 70m, it’s be so fucky hard to find somebody like Arden or AOC or whoever, but Labour need to thoroughly remodernise, in my view, not go back to the days when old Labour where a powerhouse. They will never again win an election on that basis. 

 

 

The reason we’re talking about Mandelson is because he’s back in the game, advising and getting involved. People like that cunt need to be fired into the sun.

 

With regards to the other stuff it’s exactly the same things we’ve always disagreed on. You’re talking purely about electability, i’m talking about having a party with a clear and distinguishable identity and then going from there.

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2 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Are you talking about Labour being terminated and two new parties emerging from the ashes? Coz if so I just don't see that ever happening (the termination of the party).

Nah, one will remain as Labour and it’ll be the socialist campaign group. John McDonald, Corbyn, Abbott, RLB et al. Then from there it’s sink or swim for both sets. It’ll be a huge set back for Left so politics but eventually one side would win and it could move on. I think the socialist Labour Party would be such an easy target - it would soon be polling in single figures and go the way of  Labour in Scotland. That said, if the - let’s say Democrats - find somebody good to lead them, offer genuine progressive politics without the hated, toxic legacy that Labour seem to have, they could be the new second party. If not, they can quickly die like Chukka and the guys then the Labour Party is United again. The short term winners are the Tories, but they’re winning anyway. 

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