Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

Keir Starmer


rb14
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

Fair enough.

 

Another optimistic spin I like to tell myself is that Starmer is not the future of the Labour party and was never the right choice, however it's probably a good thing that the present insurmountable popularity of Boris Johnson is happening on Starmer's watch.  I've no doubt someone else would have done better than Starmer so Johnson's popularity does not excuse him totally; but imagine if Labour had chosen someone very good, someone popular, clear, with integrity, a good speaker with leadership qualities, and still been trounced.  That would feel even worse than this, the feeling of helplessness would be even more off the scale.

Thats kind of the point I was making above. There is a huge right wing bounce in the country right now and I can't see anybody having a chance right at this moment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, scottthecanuck said:

From Guardian's coverage 

 

"Labour’s candidate Williams rushed out of the election count by the back door and was whisked off in a red Ford Fiesta."

 

LOL jeezus what a strange observation.

Least they had a candidate who knew about the towns history, he could have ended up like that monkey.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

From someone who's middle ground party has gone from polling thousand upon thousands of votes in Hartlepool to 368 last night.

 

While it is quite funny how you, sir roger etc are trying to make the Lib Dems dropping from 1,696 votes to 349 votes in Hartlepool into a thing, that's probably not the major talking point from the by-election.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

From someone who's middle ground party has gone from polling thousand upon thousands of votes in Hartlepool to 368 last night. 

 

I'm sure if Starmer wheels out Ruth Smeeth a bit more and adopts the policies and position of Change UK the voters in the north will come flocking back. 

I'm not sure the national plan should be to take the Hartlepool vote and react to it on a national scale. At the moment we are hearing from the left 'be more left' and the centre 'it's because of the left, move to the centre' and from the right 'see, everyone is flocking to the right'. Seems more like a popularity contest where the voters aren't really voting on left/centre/right but an issue or two and who has the most lovable scruffy hair. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Thats kind of the point I was making above. There is a huge right wing bounce in the country right now and I can't see anybody having a chance right at this moment. 

I agree but Starmer is not the answer, he's terrible. Labour need to keep their heads down for a few months, nothing knee jerk, then go about replacing Starmer and getting back to basics with a convincing leader who can sell those ideals.

There will always be one massive barrier though, the right wing media.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Moo said:

I agree but Starmer is not the answer, he's terrible. Labour need to keep their heads down for a few months, nothing knee jerk, then go about replacing Starmer and getting back to basics with a convincing leader who can sell those ideals.

There will always be one massive barrier though, the right wing media.

Who replaces him? Who is this convincing leader who can sell the basic ideals?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole country has been getting largesse from the Tories for the past year.

 

But actually, not much has changed. Labour only won last time because the Brexit Party split the Brexity vote. And that bloc voted en masse for the Tories this time.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose you have to hope that Hartlepool isn't reflective of the whole country because if it is that's quite worrying on a number of levels. 

 

Starmer does appear to be absolutely fucking useless but when the UK is on the verge of leaving lockdown, having had a very successful vaccination programme which, in the eyes of many Brexiteers (rightly or wrongly), makes leaving the EU seem like it was a good idea, Labour were never going to do well in this election.

 

Corbyn really isn't a thing now. The start of Starmer's tenure was ensuring that he distanced himself from the previous regime and did all he could to destroy any semblance of power or control at any level for that wing of the party. He will have known that lots of voters on the left would fuck off their membership or simply vote for someone else. His gamble was that he could win back the rule britannia nonces in the north, and the estate agents in the rest of the country. He hasn't done yet, but I'm not convinced that means for certain that he never will. Middle of a pandemic and the effects of Brexit being shelved for the moment (or at least out of sight) mean that things could change in a year or two.

 

I do fear that Labour is just becoming slightly irrelevant though and that you won't be able to flick a switch and get people interested again even if the current situation in the country is much worse in a year or two.

 

It's just all a bit sad really.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was at the count in Derby last night and there were just truly pathetic turn outs in all the wards. It's been the case for years, the majority of the country isn't Tory but the majority who do vote are. Starmer hasn't enthused anyone to go out and vote. Even in Hartlepool the Tories have got in because around 20% of those registered to vote, voted for them. Yet it's going to be seen as a huge endorsement of Boris. Labour really need to wake up about this, they're seemingly not wanting to offend those who in dwindling numbers, vote but aren't offering anything to those who don't feel compelled to vote. McDonnell was right in his tweet earlier, they went into these elections with no policy.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Numero said:

Who replaces him? Who is this convincing leader who can sell the basic ideals?

No idea.  When I say get back to basics I don't necessarily mean go back to their roots.  They need to put aside side issues for now and decide what they stand for and will stand on, then choose a leader according to that.  They need to use this time productively, see it as an opportunity, strip all the crap away and start again.

 

p.s. this optimism only extends while Scotland are in, if Scotland goes it's Tories, or a version of, in perpetuity.  Thanks Brexit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

The whole country has been getting largesse from the Tories for the past year.

That's the perception, at least. (In truth, loads of people have fallen through the net and tens of thousands have died as a direct result of their kleptocratic negligence. )  Unfortunately, perceptions win elections and the media are pretty solidly on the side of the party of billionaire tax-dodgers.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Nobody serious wants the job of leader of the opposition at the moment. The Conservatives have won the next election and probably the one after that as well so at least 10 years of opposition. So called Butler swings > 10% are very rare in British politics so the eroding an 81 seat majority will take at least 2 elections.  Its very unlikely that either you last for 10 years as leader of the Labour party after 2 election defeats or that you then become PM so I think the serious ambitious candidates are keeping their heads down, let somebody else take the job and wait until the Tories look beatable in about 10 years time. 

Ordinarily I'd agree but I think this underestimates the popularity of Johnson.

So much depends on them ousting him and who his replacement is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Numero said:

I'm not sure the national plan should be to take the Hartlepool vote and react to it on a national scale. At the moment we are hearing from the left 'be more left' and the centre 'it's because of the left, move to the centre' and from the right 'see, everyone is flocking to the right'. Seems more like a popularity contest where the voters aren't really voting on left/centre/right but an issue or two and who has the most lovable scruffy hair. 

The point I was trying to make was Labour isnt and wasn't in a position to disregard any part of its party/membership/voters, every person and every vote is needed to defeat this tory government. Harold Wilson had a cabinet that included Benn, Foot, Health, Roy Jenkins, all from different strands of the movement. Wilson was renowned as being the type of opporater who'd sell his granny for a Labour vote, it's why I wince when posters say 'stop chasing the gammon vote, or the Scottish vote, or the working class vote or whatever, Labour needs every vote and all the help it can get.

 

As for the result I genuinely believe this could be an anomaly or slightly skewed, or a result of the time. Everything these past few months has gone right for the Conservative party, jabs, covid, weather, economy, house prices, lockdown easing. If Labour unites as Starmer promised and reconnects with its youth and core vote I can see this result being the best its going to get for the Tories. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

While it is quite funny how you, sir roger etc are trying to make the Lib Dems dropping from 1,696 votes to 349 votes in Hartlepool into a thing, that's probably not the major talking point from the by-election.

I'm not making it a 'thing' I don't give a toss about the Lib Dems like most people in the country , I just thought your deflection was amusing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I'm not making it a 'thing' I don't give a toss about the Lib Dems like most people in the country , I just thought your deflection was amusing. 

 

Deflection from what? He asked me how the elections were going for the Lib Dems, so I gave him a sample result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

I suppose you have to hope that Hartlepool isn't reflective of the whole country because if it is that's quite worrying on a number of levels. 

 

Starmer does appear to be absolutely fucking useless but when the UK is on the verge of leaving lockdown, having had a very successful vaccination programme which, in the eyes of many Brexiteers (rightly or wrongly), makes leaving the EU seem like it was a good idea, Labour were never going to do well in this election.

 

Corbyn really isn't a thing now. The start of Starmer's tenure was ensuring that he distanced himself from the previous regime and did all he could to destroy any semblance of power or control at any level for that wing of the party. He will have known that lots of voters on the left would fuck off their membership or simply vote for someone else. His gamble was that he could win back the rule britannia nonces in the north, and the estate agents in the rest of the country. He hasn't done yet, but I'm not convinced that means for certain that he never will. Middle of a pandemic and the effects of Brexit being shelved for the moment (or at least out of sight) mean that things could change in a year or two.

 

I do fear that Labour is just becoming slightly irrelevant though and that you won't be able to flick a switch and get people interested again even if the current situation in the country is much worse in a year or two.

 

It's just all a bit sad really.

And not just politically! I'd rather live on The Road by Cormac McCarthy 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t think people realise how despised the Labour Party is now. I live in the North East and it’s ground zero here now. It’s not about a person or a policy, their name is just toxic. Working class people hate the party.

 

Basically, what you have seen in Scotland is drifting South and the fucking idiots in charge are just ignoring it.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...