Keir Starmer

[A Red]

I think the Palestinians need better rebel songs

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, A Red said:

I think the Palestinians need the right to safely exist on their own land

Spot on. On both counts to be fair 

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, Numero said:

As opposed to the easy ride you get if you take the other side? This is the point, there’s very little that goes down well with everyone. 

Hmm? Is it really taking "the other side" to stand against Israels recent behaviour in the occupied territories? 

 

Starmers done his bit to quell the anti semitic claims after Corbs no one can deny him that but their must surely come a time where the leader of the labour party doesn't automatically do what the board of deputies demand. 

 

The other unsavoury part of this is Starmer needs votes. Taking a tory veiw to winning elections, as George Osborne once said about the disabled after being heckled at the Olympic games "how many of them vote conservative?' Horrible thing to say but true when gauging votes to win the next election. There are approx 250.000 Jews in Britain, the board of deputies I believe speaks for around 80 thousand (might be wrong on figures but I think I'm very close) how many of them 80 thousand will vote labour at the next election?  I understand politicians should do what's right and just and not think that way but sometimes you've got to bite the bullet, do the maths and know your audience. As I say Jewish people thankfully have nothing to fear from the labour party, its been put to bed. Now If Starmer loses the Asian vote Labour are fucked. Its a tightrope.

[Anubis]

5 hours ago, A Red said:

I think the Palestinians need better rebel songs

They could sub-contract that out to the Republicans in Ireland.

[Bruce Spanner]

One step forward, two steps back for Labour.

 

Fucking idiots.

 

https://vote-watch.com/2021/04/28/breaking-labour-suspends-seven-councillors-in-peterborough-over-antisemitism-and-extremism/

 

'All were found to have shared antisemitic content, including the claim that Jews were carrying out ‘the final solution’ in Palestine. Others shared a vile video from an Islamic extremist and hate preacher who is banned from entering the UK.

 

Prominent Labour activists in Peterborough – Richard Strangward, Alan Gasparutti and Colin and Linda Watson – are also said to have been suspended, with VoteWatch having exclusively exposed candidate Gasparutti as having made numerous hateful comments on social media, including supporting the IRA and claiming ‘terrorism brings peace’.

 

Labour sources told Jewish News today it was “no surprise at all” to them that at least 14 individuals from the Peterborough party had been suspended.'

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

One step forward, two steps back for Labour.

 

Fucking idiots.

 

https://vote-watch.com/2021/04/28/breaking-labour-suspends-seven-councillors-in-peterborough-over-antisemitism-and-extremism/

 

'All were found to have shared antisemitic content, including the claim that Jews were carrying out ‘the final solution’ in Palestine. Others shared a vile video from an Islamic extremist and hate preacher who is banned from entering the UK.

 

Prominent Labour activists in Peterborough – Richard Strangward, Alan Gasparutti and Colin and Linda Watson – are also said to have been suspended, with VoteWatch having exclusively exposed candidate Gasparutti as having made numerous hateful comments on social media, including supporting the IRA and claiming ‘terrorism brings peace’.

 

Labour sources told Jewish News today it was “no surprise at all” to them that at least 14 individuals from the Peterborough party had been suspended.'

All seems a bit convenient eh. Oh and how dare anyone call out genocide! 

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

All seems a bit convenient eh. Oh and how dare anyone call out genocide! 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

All seems a bit convenient eh. Oh and how dare anyone call out genocide! 

I think you can talk about the disgusting behaviour of the Israeli government - and by fuck we just have to look at some of the debates I’ve had on here about it to know how much I love them - without resorting to saying things like ‘the final solution’. That’s clearly pretty grim stuff. It also seems to undermine a legitimate fight for the rights and safety of Palestinians with language that antisemites use. Labour as a movement is just so far up it’s own arse that it can see out of its own throat. 

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Numero said:

I think you can talk about the disgusting behaviour of the Israeli government - and by fuck we just have to look at some of the debates I’ve had on here about it to know how much I love them - without resorting to saying things like ‘the final solution’. That’s clearly pretty grim stuff. It also seems to undermine a legitimate fight for the rights and safety of Palestinians with language that antisemites use. Labour as a movement is just so far up it’s own arse that it can see out of its own throat. 

Agreed fully. It’s more the timing that raises an eyebrow. 

[Bruce Spanner]

Oh, this gets better.

 

I don't think the Tories will be in any rush to condem too loudly as both sides have been at it!

 

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

 

https://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/politics/peterborough-conservatives-criticised-by-jewish-group-for-lack-of-contrition-over-alleged-antisemitism-3214647

 

'Peterborough Labour has in recent years had issues with antisemitism after it previously selected a council election candidate - Alan Bull - despite allegedly knowing he had been accused of denying the Holocaust.

 

Mr Bull has always denied being antisemitic and has called on the Labour Party to “correct the record and apologise for misrepresenting my character and causing considerable distress to my family and me”.

 

Moreover, former Labour MP Lisa Forbes, who is standing in Fletton & Woodston in next week’s elections, apologised after she liked a post on Facebook which described Theresa May keeping her “Zionist Slave Masters agenda alive”.'

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

Agreed fully. It’s more the timing that raises an eyebrow. 

 

Perhaps we can have a calendar of dates when it's permitted to raise the issue of anti-Jewish racism? You know, just in case it clashes with something totally irrelevant.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Perhaps we can have a calendar of dates when it's permitted to raise the issue of anti-Jewish racism? You know, just in case it clashes with something totally irrelevant.

Anti Jewish racism? Wow. Just wow. 

[Gnasher]

These polls are disastrous for Labour and Starmer, no other way to describe them..

 

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1387790879444848645?s=19

 

 

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-bmg-poll-lead-b1839148.html

 

[Bjornebye]

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

The only thing I can equate these polls to are Starmer losing the left of the party and/or the Asian vote. Ridiculous as it sounds maybe the idiot in the pub in Bath has has an input. Quite baffling.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-bmg-poll-lead-b1839148.html

[Gnasher]

Hartlepool and local elections coming up, could turn into a Labour civil war if these polls prove correct. Labour and Starmer are not cutting though, 

 

 

[Gnasher]

Labour civil war coming up?  Little Owen wastes no time to put the boot in, 

 

"Terry it's the right of every Englishman to get his retaliation in first" Arthur Daley,

 

 

[Scooby Dudek]

The mad thing is I am not a fan of Starmer and would normally be front and centre of putting the boot in. However, I just can not be bothered with any of it. Maybe apathy is what they are deliberately trying to manufacture or maybe it is Covid, but my lack of interest is off the scale. 

 

I expect a massive Covid vaccine bounce, despite all the obvious failures, for this government, that plus the poor performance, plus Liverpool Mayor, makes me expect a Labour battering come the local elections. It can/will be waved away as non normal times. Until we are back to "normal" nothing Labour does will get any traction. Would this change with a new leader/direction, I have no idea but I very much doubt it unfortunately. 

 

If Labour do very badly, then the usual suspects will defend/attack him. The pisser, which is where the apathy maybe comes from, is I could write a list of who will be on which side now and be approx 98% correct. 

 

Boris Johnson is a cunt, yet is leading in the polls against Starmer, whilst we should never condemn the voters, that fact makes me think apathy is indeed the way forward. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

48 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

These polls are disastrous for Labour and Starmer, no other way to describe them.

Yep absolute dirt. Thing is, they keep on and on and on falling with nothing at all to offset it. Don't get me wrong, I've long been an advocate of keeping their head down and (importantly) getting a policy plan in place for the future, but there's understanding and accepting that the country has just come out of a landslide election, then there's allowing all the progress that was made after he took over to just vanish without any sort of response. It's going to take quite some bouncing back, that's for sure. I understand the vaccination thing has gone well, and lots of people have been paid and supported by government, so there's still good faith, but fuck me... there's a limit to how far you can let it slip without asking what the fuck is going on, you know?

[Gnasher]

4 minutes ago, Numero said:

Yep absolute dirt. Thing is, they keep on and on and on falling with nothing at all to offset it. Don't get me wrong, I've long been an advocate of keeping their head down and (importantly) getting a policy plan in place for the future, but there's understanding and accepting that the country has just come out of a landslide election, then there's allowing all the progress that was made after he took over to just vanish without any sort of response. It's going to take quite some bouncing back, that's for sure. I understand the vaccination thing has gone well, and lots of people have been paid and supported by government, so there's still good faith, but fuck me... there's a limit to how far you can let it slip without asking what the fuck is going on, you know?

I remember Stronts mentioned free money and I think he may have been on the button. The polls are strange as they do not seem to shift however bad Johnson does or how good Starmer does. 

 

The crossover for Starmer does conclude with his attack on Corbyn after the anti semitic report (the graph speaks for itself) so whether stalwarts are digging their heels in out of blind loyalty or are still outraged who knows?  I do think Jones has a valid point though, it's time for Starmer to offer an olive branch to the left, maybe bring back Long Bailey and John Mcdonald? 

[Numero Veinticinco]

12 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I remember Stronts mentioned free money and I think he may have been on the button. The polls are strange as they do not seem to shift however bad Johnson does or how good Starmer does. 

 

The crossover for Starmer does conclude with his attack on Corbyn after the anti semitic report (the graph speaks for itself) so whether stalwarts are digging their heels in out of blind loyalty or are still outraged who knows?  I do think Jones has a valid point though, it's time for Starmer to offer an olive branch to the left, maybe bring back Long Bailey and John Mcdonald? 

I've seen you mention the Corbyn 'attack' a few times in reference to the polls. I don't think you're right on this. The polls stayed practically the same until January (Polls were 39/39 the day Corbyn was suspended, then 39/39 on December 25th, and only grew to more than 2 points difference between the two parties right at the end of January). Unless you're saying there was a quarter of a year delay in people going 'hey, that's not fair on Corbyn', then I think it has very little to do with that and more to do with something else. I guess we will see in the future. It really picked up mid-February and it's widened and widened since then. I think money and vaccines aren't helping, also Labour doing very little hasn't seemed to help.

 

As for bringing back Long-Bailey and (I assume you mean...) McDonnell, I have to ask... why? What good are they going to do? Long-Bailey is somebody surely nobody gives a flying fuck about, not really, and McDonnell is unlikely to do much. I dunno, it would be a strange move.

[Rushies tash]

1 hour ago, Scooby Dudek said:

The mad thing is I am not a fan of Starmer and would normally be front and centre of putting the boot in. However, I just can not be bothered with any of it. Maybe apathy is what they are deliberately trying to manufacture or maybe it is Covid, but my lack of interest is off the scale. 

 

I expect a massive Covid vaccine bounce, despite all the obvious failures, for this government, that plus the poor performance, plus Liverpool Mayor, makes me expect a Labour battering come the local elections. It can/will be waved away as non normal times. Until we are back to "normal" nothing Labour does will get any traction. Would this change with a new leader/direction, I have no idea but I very much doubt it unfortunately. 

 

If Labour do very badly, then the usual suspects will defend/attack him. The pisser, which is where the apathy maybe comes from, is I could write a list of who will be on which side now and be approx 98% correct. 

 

Boris Johnson is a cunt, yet is leading in the polls against Starmer, whilst we should never condemn the voters, that fact makes me think apathy is indeed the way forward. 

Welcome to the club brother. It's a happier place to be.

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, Numero said:

I've seen you mention the Corbyn 'attack' a few times in reference to the polls. I don't think you're right on this. The polls stayed practically the same until January (Polls were 39/39 the day Corbyn was suspended, then 39/39 on December 25th, and only grew to more than 2 points difference between the two parties right at the end of January). Unless you're saying there was a quarter of a year delay in people going 'hey, that's not fair on Corbyn', then I think it has very little to do with that and more to do with something else. I guess we will see in the future. It really picked up mid-February and it's widened and widened since then. I think money and vaccines aren't helping, also Labour doing very little hasn't seemed to help.

 

As for bringing back Long-Bailey and (I assume you mean...) McDonnell, I have to ask... why? What good are they going to do? Long-Bailey is somebody surely nobody gives a flying fuck about, not really, and McDonnell is unlikely to do much. I dunno, it would be a strange move.

 

To answer your last point, Labour is losing support and a chunk of that lost support is probably the disaffected left. Bringing back someone like McConnell would at least appease that wing of the party, plus Dodds hasn't had any impact on Sunak, although she's up against a politician giving out free money.

 

As for the Corbs suspension, Starmer was on a steady accent until around that point, the long drawn out and imo needless aftermath of suspension/non suspension saw the beginning of a steady dip, graph below,

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/united-kingdom/

 

Basically Labour needs every vote it can get and can't afford to dismiss a whole block of the party. 

 

The Covid vaccination success, easing of lockdown and brexit not as yet going totally tits up are other reasons imo the Tories are making hay.

[Numero Veinticinco]

*Scratches head*
 

Okay. 

[Gnasher]

16 minutes ago, Numero said:

*Scratches head*
 

Okay. 

Well on the Corbs thing, Starmer was ahead of Johnson in ratings and since the suspension he's slowly but surely fallen to where he is now.

 

https://www.theweek.co.uk/108737/labour-sees-exodus-in-protest-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-suspension

 

A lot of members left the party last winter and it's not inconceivable they've also took their vote with them. 

 

I'm not suggesting it's the only reason Starmers poll rating has dropped, I'm not saying its the main reason Starmers poll rating has dropped but I believe it is definitely a reason. By what magnitude regarding points on polls I'm not sure.  

 

Edit.. this poll was around the time of the Corbyn suspension, Labour have dropped approx 15 points in the five months since..

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-poll-keir-starmer-boris-johnson-b27236.html