Keir Starmer

[The Guest]

28 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

This is interesting. It argues that Labour needs to move further to the left to win the next election. That’s not my interpretation of the 2019 result but each to their own.

 

That said, I’m not sure what the answer is. The traditional grounds of defending the NHS and education has gone, very hard to attack the Tories on either after COVID. Anyway it’s an interesting perspective.

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/damianbrighton/how-labour-win-next-election

What planet are you on?  They’ve just given a 1% a pay rise and made an absolute mess of PPE.  They’re also taking massive amounts of credit for the rollout of the vaccine which largely have fuck all to do with them.  Any time any NHS staff member gets a voice in the media they pan the tories and most people agree with them.

 

The country leans left economically but heavily right socially.  Whenever Labour offer the same economic take as the tories but with a left leaning view on immigration and other things like trans issues then that’s why the tories win every time.  Even when Corbyn offered an economically left wing manifesto it wasn’t enough to beat the country’s pre conceived and mostly true perception that Labour are as hard left as you can be on social issues.

 

If Labour or another big enough party offered a left wing economic manifesto like Corbyn’s with a centre or right wing take on those social issues it would win by an absolute landslide but we will never be given that option.

[Bruce Spanner]

48 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

 

 

I have said this before but I don’t think the next Labour PM is even an mp yet. Maybe Jarvis at a push but he doesn’t seem to want it. it’s going to take 10 years to overturn an 80 seat majority, maybe 15 unless the Tories lose a lot of seats at the next election and nothing in the polls suggests that is likely. 
 

This is why Starmer is so off the pace, he knows it’s not going to be him and I think he’s treading water until he can go back to being a corporate lawyer to build up his pension pot. 

‘The vote share increase under Corbyn’s leadership was highly problematic for people in Labour who call themselves centrists. The term centrist is misleading, centrists do in fact hold mostly right-wing positions. Since 1997, despite the party winning a landslide on the bedrock of John Smith’s socialist programme, centrists had insisted the party could only be successful from the centre and not from the left. Corbyn proved their orthodoxy to be false. Corbyn won more votes in England and 3.3 million more votes in 2017 than Blair won in 2005. The election results of this century clearly show Labour loses votes when it shifts right and wins votes when it shifts left. The result of the 2019 election being the exception. That election was about one issue: Brexit.’

 

From the article above, which is riddled with nonsense, and in parts patently untrue.

 

A whole load of deriving aught from is.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Corbyns policies when blindly shown were very popular. The response to Burnham taking control of the busses is popular. Elections don't seem to be won on policy they are won with headlines. Blair sucked Murdochs cock and reaped the rewards.. cool Britannia!  Headlines won brexit contrary to the evidence it has little benefits. There's a reason propaganda is a thing, a reason why billionaires own media outlets.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

2 hours ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Corbyns policies when blindly shown were very popular. The response to Burnham taking control of the busses is popular. Elections don't seem to be won on policy they are won with headlines. Blair sucked Murdochs cock and reaped the rewards.. cool Britannia!  Headlines won brexit contrary to the evidence it has little benefits. There's a reason propaganda is a thing, a reason why billionaires own media outlets.

It's politics 101. 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

I'm getting pissed off with repeated tweets from Angela Rayner saying "on 6th May you have a chance to vote for a pay rise for our NHS heroes". It's so obviously untrue and it gets called out every time she says it, it just makes the whole party look fucking stupid.  Can they really not think of anything  - anything at all - that people are actually voting for in May that Labour will do better than the other parties?

[Captain Howdy]

Don’t think I’ll ever see a Labour Govt again in my lifetime, Labour election wins are rocking horse shit at the best of times and these ain’t the best of times. Labour are so shit at politics it’s actually quite impressive.

 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

i was in the party for years whereas Mrs kurtz is a tory. It works for us. One thing that is really striking is how the tory party is geared up to win elections. There are training courses, seminars, loads of marketing materials etc and its relentless at the moment, maybe 2 - 3 updates and action points a day, every day including the weekends. Nobody is attending seminars on Palestine, Trans rights or any other marginal issue that most of the electorate don't care about. but they are all out posting leaflets and banging on doors.  This is the thing that has surprised me the most, they are an election winning machine. 

You missed out the mass media manipulation, refusal to answer direct questions oh and the lies. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think you're conflating the how and the what. They don't win elections by lies, they win elections because of their machine like focus on winning elections. In my albeit very limited experience, the difference between the 2 parties is astonishing. 

I'm sure the difference is huge mate not denying that but yes they do "Ignore, Lie, Deflect"  

[Bobby Hundreds]

I think the media plays a massive part in the tories election success. Murdoch, Rothmere filling the BBC with tories I even remember opening the independent webpage one day and their Headline was VOTE TORY. 

[Kepler-186]

44 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

i was in the party for years whereas Mrs kurtz is a tory. It works for us. One thing that is really striking is how the tory party is geared up to win elections. There are training courses, seminars, loads of marketing materials etc and its relentless at the moment, maybe 2 - 3 updates and action points a day, every day including the weekends. Nobody is attending seminars on Palestine, Trans rights or any other marginal issue that most of the electorate don't care about. but they are all out posting leaflets and banging on doors.  This is the thing that has surprised me the most, they are an election winning machine. 

That’s why we hate the cunts. Apologists for the British Empire. Flag waving schmucks who are happy to

see ex-squaddies homeless, pay billions to bomb brown people in their own countries, and back slum landlords. Giving it the big one about British values, but can’t be arsed to read about our own social history. 
 

You’re partly telling the truth of course. 
 

Tom Tugsishat MP is always on R4 moaning about China’s human rights, so it seems they do care about something, but obviously through the prism of trade. 
 

Byline Times have done a nice piece on Tory corruption, should be easy to find. 
 

Conservatives drive past poor areas and think thank God it’s them instead of me. 

 

And for the record, Labour have somehow managed to become a worse prospect electorally. 
 

It costs money to run a country properly and that means fair, progressive taxation: but since 2010 the very richest have got richer, and even more so since COVID, while the Brexit dividend is a county split into idealogical camps at loggerheads with each other, and the posh boys pilfering like never before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

19 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think that with the emergence of social media, traditional print media is becoming less relevant every day. 65 million people in this country but less than 8m newspapers sold. The 20 - 30 something generation don't read papers or watch the the BBC anymore but don't vote either (both massive generalizations).

 

My perspective is

 

There are 4 types of voters

a) Love the tories and vote

b) like the tories/hate labour but cant be arsed to vote

c) like labour/hate the tories but cant be arsed to vote

d) Love Labour and vote

 

The key to winning elections is to focus on the b) or c)s (depending on your party) and get them out to vote and that's where all the efforts should go. Every action should be aimed at the b)s or c)s  and getting them to the polling station on 6th May, nothing else matters. 

 

I've ammended your idea to where current thinking currently is...

 

There are 6 types of voters

a) Love the tories and vote

b) like the tories/hate labour and could be motivated to get out and vote

b1)  like the tories/hate labour won't vote

c) like labour/hate the tories won't vote

c1) like labour/hate the tories and can be convinced to leave the house to vote

d) Love Labour and vote

 

Though it follows that you have further catagories for other parties and feeling toward them, much more complicated than the binary above, but it will do for now.

 

Now traditional logic dictates that each group would target the 'can be convinced' group and this is true, but in bizzaro modern political hellscape it is more likely that those groups will be targeted by the opposition, in effect, we take away any motivation for them to get out by bombarding them with personalised marketing which shows the futility/pointlessness/flaws etc. even if this is not the case, a lie told often enough etc...

 

It's hugly successful and part of the reason the world is in the state it's in.

[Jairzinho]

Quote

65 million people in this country but less than 8m newspapers sold.

They all vote though. 

 

The people to target are the BBC trusting, Times reading, just about middle class sorts. It's these cunts that decide all the marginals.

 

Young people aren't going to vote for Keir Starmer. 

[Rotpeter]

1 hour ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think that with the emergence of social media, traditional print media is becoming less relevant every day. 

Disagree. The MSM has slaughtered the last two labour leaders.   Don't confuse sales with influence.

 

Social media news agenda is set by the MSM.

[The Guest]

3 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

i was in the party for years whereas Mrs kurtz is a tory. It works for us. One thing that is really striking is how the tory party is geared up to win elections. There are training courses, seminars, loads of marketing materials etc and its relentless at the moment, maybe 2 - 3 updates and action points a day, every day including the weekends. Nobody is attending seminars on Palestine, Trans rights or any other marginal issue that most of the electorate don't care about. but they are all out posting leaflets and banging on doors.  This is the thing that has surprised me the most, they are an election winning machine. 

They spent 13 years not winning anything.  The only reason the Tory party “won” in 2010 is because of a global economic crash 2 years before.  It was a right wing failing by a supposedly left of centre political party.  The electorate then had nowhere to go.  Even then the tories couldn’t get enough votes and had to go into coalition with another party who gained votes by pretending to be left wing.  The complete failing of Labour to move left after that election cemented the tories in power.

 

We then got possibly the worst prime minister of all time in May and her campaign was nothing but a complete embarrassment.  She was walking around just saying strong and stable over and over again.  They won the election but needed another party to prop them up and the only reason that happened is because the opposition party were trying to turn the economic mainstream tide from basically being far right and were attacked by every form of establishment media and from the vast majority of right wing cunts in their own party who preferred a Tory government.

 

“One thing that is really striking is the Tory party are geared to win elections.”  Honestly what planet are you living on?  Get your head out of your fucking arse and tell your bird to do the same.  The past few elections have shown Boris Johnson could take a shit on TV 24/7 and not say a word as his campaign and they would still win because of the overwhelming Tory propaganda that is put out by every television channel and newspaper in this country.  They barely put a manifesto together and rely on being seen as the anti immigration and anti paying layabouts dole money party to get them voted in. 

[Bjornebye]

17 minutes ago, Rotpeter said:

Disagree. The MSM has slaughtered the last two labour leaders.   Don't confuse sales with influence.

 

Social media news agenda is set by the MSM.

Absolutely. The whole Cummings fiasco last summer and Cummings wouldn't trend on Twitter despite thousands tweeting about him. Then all the 'bots' that appeared with zero followers tweeting support. It's just pure manipulation. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think its this defeated, externalization blame the MSM narrative that will keep Labour in opposition for 15 years. Rather than studying and learning from what the tories are doing, the explanation for one of the biggest defeats in modern electoral history seems to be the MSM manipulates the thick racist proles and buys them off with flags and festivals. Its both incredibly defeatist and patronizing to the electorate. The party needs to stop blaming the media and learn the lessons of what happened. 80 seats is a massive majority to overturn and nothing will change as long as you blame the electorate for being too thick to see they are being manipulated. 

Its Labours fault that the Tories/Murdoch manipulate the media narrative so that thick people fall for it and go and vote for them? 

 

Jesus. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

The daily mail site has 218 million unique visitors every month. How many people then spread their bullshit amongst friends, online, social media. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

The whole brexit scenario sums up British politics. Blatent lying for self serving purposes backed by the right wing media. Very little scrutiny to claims until after the damage was done.  

[Bjornebye]

3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think if you want people to vote for you, saying they are thick and gullible is not a great starting point. Until that narrative changes, nothing else will. 

Have Labour said this? 

[Jairzinho]

3 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think if you want people to vote for you, saying they are thick and gullible is not a great starting point. Until that narrative changes, nothing else will. 

Although it doesn't mean they aren't thick and gullible.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Just now, Jairzinho said:

Although it doesn't mean they aren't thick and gullible.

The tories know full well we are.

[Captain Howdy]

4 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

I'm sure the difference is huge mate not denying that but yes they do "Ignore, Lie, Deflect"  

Which is why I said Labour are turd at politics, where is the fight and nastiness? Corbyn just let every fucker walk all over him, his lack of fight really pissed me off and Starmer is terrified of his own shadow. Milliband, miiliefandom, fuck off. You need ambitious nasty fuckers, Blair was ruthless and was backed up by proper switched on twats like Mandelson and Campbell who knew exactly how to play the game and twatted anybody who got in the way. That’s what it takes for Labour to win power. When will the penny drop?

[Jairzinho]

6 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

The tories know full well we are.

If only the people whose interests were actually represented by the Conservative party voted for them they'd be a fringe party that would have maybe a handful of seats in the absolute richest constituencies in the country.

[Jairzinho]

1 minute ago, Captain Howdy said:

Which is why I said Labour are turd at politics, where is the fight and nastiness? Corbyn just let every fucker walk all over him, his lack of fight really pissed me off and Starmer is terrified of his own shadow. Milliband, miiliefandom, fuck off. You need ambitious nasty fuckers, Blair was ruthless and was backed up by proper switched on twats like Mandelson and Campbell who knew exactly how to play the game and twatted anybody who got in the way. That’s what it takes for Labour to win power. When will the penny drop?

Yes, the actual ideology of democratic socialism, social democracy, or simply a tiny bit to the left of the Tory party, is irrelevant if they're simply fucking shit at politics. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Starmer and Labour are wank we cant forget this regardless of our opinion on the influence of media. Youre not in power at the very least be an opposition.