Keir Starmer

[Neil G]

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

Like a more tentative Milliband, and it worked so well for him...

He makes Ed Miliband look like Malcolm X.

[sir roger]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

 

My wife worked for him very briefly, catering events, and she's convinced that anybody who would have met him would have voted for him.

 

Shame it's trial by headline in the UK.

i hope she didn't make THE ' Bacon butty '

[Bruce Spanner]

2 hours ago, sir roger said:

i hope she didn't make THE ' Bacon butty '

 

I fucking hate how low the country sinks at points, grim all round.

[Pidge]

8 hours ago, Nelly-Torres said:

Are these claims that Starmer has backed the government's decision to appoint commissioners to run Liverpool CC true? 

 

If so, he might just achieve the impossible of losing the "red rosette on a monkey" backing that exists in the city. 

He's fucking awful. 

I guess the thinking must be that, should the roles be reversed (and exposing, capitalising on tory sleaze must be part of the long-term plan) he would want to be able to have Labour take the reins. So, he's letting them do their thing. Two months of end-pandemic management is not going to make a huge difference. An overreaction is probably the main benefit the tories could get from this.

 

I fully think his plan is to target the inquiry in the summer and pick up his drive following that.

[Megadrive Man]

 

 

[Gnasher]

Depressing 

 

 

[Neil G]

So not a word from the entire Labour front bench condemning the police’s actions at last night’s Kill the Bill protest in Bristol, where police were recorded on video assaulting a journalist from the Mirror, smacking seated protestors with their riot shields, and punching a woman in the face knocking her to the ground. Not even a statement of concern and a call for an investigation. Keir evidently has them under instruction to stay silent.

 

Can we all now acknowledge that the human rights lawyer spiel he used to win the leadership was all a front? I recall it went down well with quite a few on here during and since the contest. He’s barely mentioned his human rights background since become leader, instead bigging up his record as DPP at every opportunity. Quite clear now what his orientation is.

[Duff Man]

He's just another careerist, imo. A largely apolitical, empty suit, who's unfortunately being guided by some of the worst people in the party. I doubt he actually believes in much of anything besides his own advancement.

[Neil G]

On 24/03/2021 at 10:03, Section_31 said:

 

Dunno why it always has to turn into "my side's better than your side" shit, Starmer being shite doesn't stop Corbyn being shite, one has nothing to do with the other. I'd say there's a significant possibility that Long Bailey would have been shite too. Also, and this is the point that's always conveniently skirted around - Starmer was elected by a landslide of the party membership, so if you're going to say he was parachuted in by some neoliberal conspiracy, you are by extension saying the labour membership are suckers.

I wouldn’t call them suckers, but it’s clear to me that many of them were seriously misled by Starmer’s leadership campaign. He won the leadership on the strength of two main commitments: to maintain a Corbynite policy platform via the ten pledges, and to end factional infighting and unify the party. Nobody can credibly claim he’s done either of those things, or even made a serious effort to do them.

 

Would he still have won a landslide if during the campaign he’d pledged the following:

 

 

Oppose an increase in corporation tax while supporting a freeze on income tax allowance for low paid workers (the latter reversed after a backlash)

 

Ignore teaching unions’ calls for school closures at the height of the pandemic, against scientific advice 

 

Oppose EU free movement and not seek any major changes to the Tories’ Brexit deal

 

Abstain on the overseas operations, Spycops and police bills (the political editor of the Mirror confirmed Labour were set to abstain on the latter until the Sarah Everard vigil turned nasty)

 

Push for the appointment of a Blairite General Secretary who’d preside over a spate of spurious suspensions of left wing members and rigged CLP elections

 

Parachute a centrist candidate in for the first Parliamentary by-election, after saying during the contest that this practice should stop 

 

Scrap an entire shortlist for the Liverpool mayor election to keep a Corbyn supporter off the ballot

 

Agree to the Tories taking over Liverpool City Council 

 

Oppose calls for the resignation of a Tory minister for breaking the law

 

Stay silent while police put the boot in to journalists and women protesters on camera.

 

 

Whether he never intended to keep any of his promises, or whether he’s been bounced into his current course of action by the pandemic and by the advisors he’s chosen, I don’t know. But either way, the leader that Labour has now is not the leader that tens of thousands of Labour members thought they were voting for last year.

 

I don’t think he’s a neoliberal plant, I think he’s his own man, but it’s obvious to me that the pro-establishment forces in Labour swung behind him because they surmised, correctly as it’s turned out, that he’d acquiesce in the marginalisation of the left.

[sir roger]

I hold my hand up , he conned me good and proper.

[A Red]

Well, if this doesnt get NV back, nothing will.

[Bruce Spanner]

52 minutes ago, Neil G said:

I wouldn’t call them suckers, but it’s clear to me that many of them were seriously misled by Starmer’s leadership campaign. He won the leadership on the strength of two main commitments: to maintain a Corbynite policy platform via the ten pledges, and to end factional infighting and unify the party. Nobody can credibly claim he’s done either of those things, or even made a serious effort to do them.

 

Would he still have won a landslide if during the campaign he’d pledged the following:

 

 

1) Oppose an increase in corporation tax while supporting a freeze on income tax allowance for low paid workers (the latter reversed after a backlash)

 

2) Ignore teaching unions’ calls for school closures at the height of the pandemic, against scientific advice 

 

3) Oppose EU free movement and not seek any major changes to the Tories’ Brexit deal

 

4) Abstain on the overseas operations, Spycops and police bills (the political editor of the Mirror confirmed Labour were set to abstain on the latter until the Sarah Everard vigil turned nasty)

 

5) Push for the appointment of a Blairite General Secretary who’d preside over a spate of spurious suspensions of left wing members and rigged CLP elections

 

6) Parachute a centrist candidate in for the first Parliamentary by-election, after saying during the contest that this practice should stop 

 

7) Scrap an entire shortlist for the Liverpool mayor election to keep a Corbyn supporter off the ballot

 

8) Agree to the Tories taking over Liverpool City Council 

 

9) Oppose calls for the resignation of a Tory minister for breaking the law

 

10) Stay silent while police put the boot in to journalists and women protesters on camera.

 

 

Whether he never intended to keep any of his promises, or whether he’s been bounced into his current course of action by the pandemic and by the advisors he’s chosen, I don’t know. But either way, the leader that Labour has now is not the leader that tens of thousands of Labour members thought they were voting for last year.

 

I don’t think he’s a neoliberal plant, I think he’s his own man, but it’s obvious to me that the pro-establishment forces in Labour swung behind him because they surmised, correctly as it’s turned out, that he’d acquiesce in the marginalisation of the left.

1) Temporary and all the leading economic think tanks agree that rises now are not a good idea, do them further down the line.

 

2) Agree, though this has more than a whiff of focus group logic to it. Not a good look for a Labour leader though and I’d expect better.

 

3) Let the tories own Brexit and wait until the realities of it kick in, then the conversations can start. 
 

4) Unacceptable, no idea what the thinking for this is.

 

5) He won the election, he can choose who he wants, like the guy before him and the guy before him. We may not agree with his choices but they’re his to make and his mistakes if it doesn’t work.

 

6) He was at the request of the CLP as he not?

 

7) I’m not sure we’ll ever know why this happened, but as events have shown it’s a clusterfuck up there and something is very obviously going wrong. 
 

8) Partial control and, again, as details come out about it it sounds worse and worse what they were up to. Jenrick fronting it though is a farce.

 

9) Agree, but they are hammering the enquiry now angle and anybody confident Ned of wrong doings will be dealt with. Also, the juicier cases are still in court.

10) Ongoing, but agree, the silence is deafening. Again, seems like focus group feedback reaction.

 

Looking at it in a balanced way he won the leadership election and has the mandate to do things his way, like the others before him.
 

We’re we misled? We’ll have to see when the dust has settled on the plague, politics gets back to normal and real policy is set out. At this point I’m on the side of caution. He needs to be a prime minster to 70m not 500,000 members as much as we feel ownership. if compromises have to be made, that’s politics. If he throws everything out fuck him.

 

Ive said since the start a coalition would be a big victory given how this county is at present. Stick in a PR promise and tactical constituency  standings and it’s possible.

 

My feeling towards him?

 

His chief advisor is living in Scotland so everything has to be done over zoom. The media appearances range from good to ‘oh, for fucksake’. The policy launch was a dud. The positions he’s willing to speak on are great for Mr & Mrs Shithead of somewhere shite, but not for me, like the drugs comments a few weeks back, just naive and pandering to idiots, but those idiots votes count the same as yours and mine. 
 

My overall thought are that he’s lost, doesn’t really get the job, hopefully just for now, and is being pulled all over the place by both the factions and the public. 
 

I think his career, and that of any brief, is long hours in chambers working 18hr days and interacting with few people, I think this is more his way of working, studious and concentrated. Does that work in the political world? Maybe not, but he’s the elected leader and like those before hi he’ll have my support until I can no longer justify it and I’ll work on his campaign as even ‘this’ Labour is a million miles away from the current cunts running the country.

 

Could we do with better? Yes.

 

But after decimation at the polls the talent pool willing to be accepted, let alone work constructively together, is wafer thin.

 

[Harry's Lad]

1 hour ago, sir roger said:

I hold my hand up , he conned me good and proper.

Me too.

Seriously underwhelmed and very disappointed.

[Mudface]

2 hours ago, sir roger said:

I hold my hand up , he conned me good and proper.

Same, incredibly disappointed in him so far. I liked Corbyn and his policies, but not the chaos around him. I was hoping for someone who could mix Blair's ruthless professionalism and PR sheen with policies that I didn't have to hold my nose to vote for. At the moment, it feels like the worst of both worlds- cowardly acquiescence with the Tories coupled with dreadful optics. Just hideous.

[Kevin D]

16 minutes ago, Mudface said:

Same, incredibly disappointed in him so far. I liked Corbyn and his policies, but not the chaos around him. I was hoping for someone who could mix Blair's ruthless professionalism and PR sheen with policies that I didn't have to hold my nose to vote for. At the moment, it feels like the worst of both worlds- cowardly acquiescence with the Tories coupled with dreadful optics. Just hideous.

 

It was a tough one. 

 

At the time his position was untenable,  but had we known that the PLP was actively trying to stop him win the election as we found out in that leaked report, I wonder now many voters would have reassessed their position. 

[Bruce Spanner]

13 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

 

It was a tough one. 

 

At the time his position was untenable,  but had we known that the PLP was actively trying to stop him win the election as we found out in that leaked report, I wonder now many voters would have reassessed their position. 

Some of, not all, let’s not over egg that particular pudding.

 

Anyone found to have in any way undermined the campaign should be kicked out for life, before I’m accused of being a shill.

 

I was saying this shit on here before it was in the press and it’s bullshit to blame them for the failure, though they played a part. It’s much more nuanced than that.

 

 

[Neil G]

15 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Looking at it in a balanced way he won the leadership election and has the mandate to do things his way, like the others before him.
 

We’re we misled? We’ll have to see when the dust has settled on the plague, politics gets back to normal and real policy is set out. At this point I’m on the side of caution. He needs to be a prime minster to 70m not 500,000 members as much as we feel ownership. if compromises have to be made, that’s politics. If he throws everything out fuck him.

 

That’s my whole point: he doesn’t have a mandate to do whatever he wants. He has a mandate to do the things he said he’d do when he ran for the leadership. That’s how democratic elections are supposed to work.

 

I was going to do a point by point reply to your post, but decided against it. The merits of each position he’s taken aren’t the issue here. The issue is that every one of them contradicts something he said to win members over during the leadership contest, whether it was the ten policy pledges, the promise to unite the party or the trumpeting of his human rights lawyer credentials. 

 

You might think it’s smart politics to junk his pledges to the members in pursuit of swing votes, but it’s not. The Tories will milk his U-turns and broken promises for all they’re worth, telling voters that he’s untrustworthy and indecisive, and it’ll cut through. His personal ratings are already falling on these counts. The potential for him to get the full John Kerry flip-flop treatment in the GE campaign is there for everyone to see. 

 

Plus he risks losing crucial progressive younger voters for no gain. Conventional centrist wisdom says Labour can afford to take these votes for granted as they’re concentrated in Labour’s metropolitan safe seats, but they’re present in marginal seats across the country. And even for those who’ll still hold their nose and vote Labour, they’re far less likely to get out and campaign for Labour come election time, which again could be crucial in marginal seats.

 

The whole thing is a train wreck, an entirely avoidable one, and there’s more to come.

[Bruce Spanner]

33 minutes ago, Neil G said:

That’s my whole point: he doesn’t have a mandate to do whatever he wants. He has a mandate to do the things he said he’d do when he ran for the leadership. That’s how democratic elections are supposed to work.

 

I was going to do a point by point reply to your post, but decided against it. The merits of each position he’s taken aren’t the issue here. The issue is that every one of them contradicts something he said to win members over during the leadership contest, whether it was the ten policy pledges, the promise to unite the party or the trumpeting of his human rights lawyer credentials. 

 

You might think it’s smart politics to junk his pledges to the members in pursuit of swing votes, but it’s not. The Tories will milk his U-turns and broken promises for all they’re worth, telling voters that he’s untrustworthy and indecisive, and it’ll cut through. His personal ratings are already falling on these counts. The potential for him to get the full John Kerry flip-flop treatment in the GE campaign is there for everyone to see. 

 

Plus he risks losing crucial progressive younger voters for no gain. Conventional centrist wisdom says Labour can afford to take these votes for granted as they’re concentrated in Labour’s metropolitan safe seats, but they’re present in marginal seats across the country. And even for those who’ll still hold their nose and vote Labour, they’re far less likely to get out and campaign for Labour come election time, which again could be crucial in marginal seats.

 

The whole thing is a train wreck, an entirely avoidable one, and there’s more to come.

 

The mandate for him was there with the victory and the legacy candidate being swept aside, he said something along the lines of he'd keep the values, which is disigenuous, but as I said above we have to wait and see post plague where we are, the world is significantly different than it was a year or so ago. Is a year too early to judge him under normal circumstances, no, but during this, perhaps we need a return to normality before giving it both barrels. He has got some things very wrong though, don't treat this as a defence, more a level headed look at it.

 

The bolded, we agree, though I think it's down to naivety, being pulled all the shop by factions, focus groups and other vested interests all shouting louder than needs be. He's a rabbit in the headlights when put on the spot as he doesn't know what he should say or be seen to be saying. He's just lost, and visably so, and needs to find something quickly or he's done. Is he strong enough to do this, perhaps not, but there is a dearth of options and that's a very real concern. One side are plotting for McDonnnell the other Reeves/Cooper and that's the last thing we need, another 'us' vs 'them' battle. Starmer came in saying he'd unify and he has failed I don't think that's unfair to say.

 

A report came out this morning bemoaning the lack of leadership and guidance on policy and frontline, yet applauding all the stuff going on behind the scenes, it's just depressing that we are just making no real movement, gains or real impact against this mob across the benches in what is the worst iteration of them, possibly, ever and this has to be on him and his team for the decisions they have made.

 

I think the May locals are a potential disaster waiting to happen and Hartlepool a strong indicator of where we're at as a country, but where we go from there if it's worst case scenario I have no idea. For the first time in a very long time I feel hopeless when it comes to the political landscape in the UK and that's not on Starmer, though he plays his role, it's all of it. Labour are toxic, the tories are toxic, the system is toxic, the media is toxic and most worringly the public, well a large percentage of them, are fucking toxic. 

 

[Jennings]

If only the Tories would fuck something up. Then there'd be something for him to go at.

 

Something...anything...

 

...a health minister breaking the law; or Home Sec bullying and breaking ministerial code; or someone giving their mistress 125K of public money; or negligence in care homes causing thousands to die; or the chief advisor getting caught breaking his own rules; or the PM telling everyone to protect the NHS from a virus and then catching it himself; or fucking up A-Level students; or forsaking impoverished children; or shafting University education; or giving billions of quid to their buddies' failed enterprises; or spending 75K on eyebrow shaping...

 

...something...anything.  

 

 

[sir roger]

2 hours ago, Jennings said:

If only the Tories would fuck something up. Then there'd be something for him to go at.

 

Something...anything...

 

...a health minister breaking the law; or Home Sec bullying and breaking ministerial code; or someone giving their mistress 125K of public money; or negligence in care homes causing thousands to die; or the chief advisor getting caught breaking his own rules; or the PM telling everyone to protect the NHS from a virus and then catching it himself; or fucking up A-Level students; or forsaking impoverished children; or shafting University education; or giving billions of quid to their buddies' failed enterprises; or spending 75K on eyebrow shaping...

 

...something...anything.  

 

 

Surely you realise it's not the time for any of that , you probably don't even own a union jack do you ?

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Rumours that he's going to sack Anneliesse Dodds for "failing to effectively communicate the party's vision." 

 

Does Labour even have a vision right now? Did she refuse to frig herself with a Union Jack live on YouTube? 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

A labour donor needs to set up a national newspaper and sell it for 10p. That's what's missing.  

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

52 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

A labour donor needs to set up a national newspaper and sell it for 10p. That's what's missing.  

 

Copy the layout of the daily mail. Whoever designed that site is a genius. Lure the nobs in with a side bar of shite and let the lying headlines to the left draw them in with the odd meme and viral story mixed amongst it.

[Colonel Bumcunt]

40 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Copy the layout of the daily mail. Whoever designed that site is a genius. Lure the nobs in with a side bar of shite and let the lying headlines to the left draw them in with the odd meme and viral story mixed amongst it.

Very achievable if many of the socialism espousing supporters actually were socialist and worked together on things....

 

The Canary.  Yeah nice one.  Now use your resource and make it into a credible newspaper and not some LGBT newsletter.  

 

The names who signed the Labour letter of support at last election features some prominent industry names.

Hugh Grant, Steve Coogan, get off your arses and share your wealth, ideas and contacts.  In fact, one of you cunts run for leader.  It's all personality driven polls anyway now. 

The choice of directing Labour adverts on the telly is between Frears, Loach and Leigh.

Stormzy, Roger Waters, Massive Attack and Brian Eno can put a soundtrack together for it. 

 

However, the biggest single issue is the existence of the Lib Dems and Greens.  There needs to be a summit between them and Labour and it needs to be in front of an audience.  Voters need to know the faces behind these parties, the big donors, the kingmakers.  

 

 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Most people aren't going to read a news heavy paper/site you need the shiny bullshit to attract the little fuckers to the table and then BAM! Boris is a cunt and here is bullet point list of why. Check out the arse on Rita Ora at the beach.. Boom! Reece-Mogg advises people to move money out of UK!