Keir Starmer

[Gnasher]

3 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

The EU medicines nonsense will be a millstone around Starmer if both him and Johnson last till 2024. One of the reasons why having a leader who was seen as the king of remain will be a poisoned chalice for Labour. They will find far more irrational brexit topics to score points and you know the people he is trying to win over - a sizable amount of them see not being fully Pro-Brexit as being unpatriotic. I mean even if Starmer has a number 1 haircut and starts belting out ten German bombers they will be, yes but you were on the side of the EU against Britain when it mattered

I dont think Starmer has positioned himself as king of remain. He imo is treading the right line on Brexit and he's in a damed if he does damed if he dosnt situation.

[Denny Crane]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I dont think Starmer has positioned himself as king of remain. He imo is treading the right line on Brexit and he's in a damed if he does damed if he dosnt situation.

I was using the past tense from his time as Brexit secretary. 

[Gnasher]

If labour ditch Starmer for Nandy they're (hope I got that one right Numero) fucked. Well and truly fucked, landslide defeat fucked.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, Denny Crane said:

I was using the past tense from his time as Brexit secretary. 

He was in a difficult position then mind. Let's be honest who would've wanted that job? It was a lose lose situation. It's easy to quibble but I thought he did ok.

[Scooby Dudek]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

They defiantly had a pop over abolishing private schools, which was a stupid thing to announce anyway, and Brexit, significantly so, off the top of my head.

 

I have seen a few mention abolishing private schools as policy. 

Abolishing never was policy.

 

A vote was taken at conference, which if I remember correctly the leadership tried to prevent, to abolish private schools which passed.

 

Immediately, as in live on air immediately after the vote (sadly I was watching party conference live on BBC), all the Labour MPs said we do not plan to abolish private schools this is purely a suggestive vote of the conference.

 

Despite that and every Labour rep saying the same, obviously the narrative was Labour are anti aspirations and want to abolish private schools. 

 

The manifesto stated that they would look at private schools tax free status, which is popular and VAT, I believe.

 

The same BBC commentators at the conference obviously asked again and again for months, do you want to abolish private schools? The media were happy to run this no smoke without fire narrative.

 

The fact you believe this is not a dig but just an example of how a lie, if repeated often enough becomes true.

[Bruce Spanner]

7 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I have seen a few mention abolishing private schools as policy. 

Abolishing never was policy.

 

A vote was taken at conference, which if I remember correctly the leadership tried to prevent, to abolish private schools which passed.

 

Immediately, as in live on air immediately after the vote (sadly I was watching party conference live on BBC), all the Labour MPs said we do not plan to abolish private schools this is purely a suggestive vote of the conference.

 

Despite that and every Labour rep saying the same, obviously the narrative was Labour are anti aspirations and want to abolish private schools. 

 

The manifesto stated that they would look at private schools tax free status, which is popular and VAT, I believe.

 

The same BBC commentators at the conference obviously asked again and again for months, do you want to abolish private schools? The media were happy to run this no smoke without fire narrative.

 

The fact you believe this is not a dig but just an example of how a lie, if repeated often enough becomes true.

 

 

'However, the motion passed by Labour conference went much further.

 

It said the next Labour manifesto should include a "commitment to integrate all private schools into the state sector".

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-commits-to-abolishing-private-schools-if-it-wins-the-next-general-election

 

Tomato/tomato.

 

It was a very silly, ill thought out idea that did a lot of damage.

[Denny Crane]

35 minutes ago, skend04 said:

It's all predicated on the next 3 years yeilding an improvement in people's lives now that Brexit is done. Seeing as barely 4 weeks in and it's going to shit, apart from the vaccine roll out, I'll pretty confidently say that the Tories won't be using Brexit to hammer Labour at the next election.

The Conservatives have been in power for a decade overseen austerity attacking the most vulnerable people in our society - saw the first drop in life expectancy for generations. They have handled the Corona situation disastrously another 100k dead and still polling 40%. So far everybody but them have been to blame the list is endless. If it does turn the consensus is they will blame Johnson and wheel out the next cunt. 

 

A few people have made the case the only thing that might change things drastically is a big dip in house prices but as soon as there was a sniff of a crash in the market they slashed stamp duty.  The argument is a lot of Tory voters are immune from a reduction in GDP due to being retired and sitting on pensions and property paid off.

 

 My neighbour who voted Labour but is apolitical has been praising Johnson he has had his second dose of the vaccine and says even the Labour leader says Johnson has been doing a good job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scooby Dudek]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

 

'However, the motion passed by Labour conference went much further.

 

It said the next Labour manifesto should include a "commitment to integrate all private schools into the state sector".

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-commits-to-abolishing-private-schools-if-it-wins-the-next-general-election

 

Tomato/tomato.

 

This policy was voted on at conference, which the party leadership, including all M.P.s are to base policy around. Plus the official line was not Abolish, just to tax, make them fairer.  

 

Fair enough in relation to semantics, I just think that Abolish has negative connotations and anyone having a pop at the leadership for that has an agenda. I say this relation to your post about fellow Labour M.P.s having a pop over policies. 

 

[sir roger]

30 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If labour ditch Starmer for Nandy they're (hope I got that one right Numero) fucked. Well and truly fucked, landslide defeat fucked.

I've heard rumours that Yvette Cooper is being sounded out for a run if Starmer isn't seen as making a better shape of things. The only thing certain is that the Labour centre / right are far more ruthless than the left.

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, sir roger said:

I've heard rumours that Yvette Cooper is being sounded out for a run if Starmer isn't seen as making a better shape of things. The only thing certain is that the Labour centre / right are far more ruthless than the left.

Oh fuck no. Please no. 

 

You are indeed right about the right so it wouldn't surprise me. 

[skend04]

9 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

The Conservatives have been in power for a decade overseen austerity attacking the most vulnerable people in our society - saw the first drop in life expectancy for generations. They have handled the Corona situation disastrously another 100k dead and still polling 40%. So far everybody but them have been to blame the list is endless. If it does turn the consensus is they will blame Johnson and wheel out the next cunt. 

 

A few people have made the case the only thing that might change things drastically is a big dip in house prices but as soon as there was a sniff of a crash in the market they slashed stamp duty.  The argument is a lot of Tory voters are immune from a reduction in GDP due to being retired and sitting on pensions and property paid off.

 

 My neighbour who voted Labour but is apolitical has been praising Johnson he has had his second dose of the vaccine and says even the Labour leader says Johnson has been doing a good job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Johnson makes the Tories more electable according to the all the polling that gets carried out. I think Labour's own polling shows voters are currently turned off if they attack the government.

 

It just highlights how mad a lot of people are that they've accepted 100k deaths, stealing of taxpayer money and a complete fuck up these past few years, that they'd still vote Tory. Maddening that the vast majority wouldn't but enough would to win them a GE.

[sir roger]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Oh fuck no. Please no. 

 

You are indeed right about the right so it wouldn't surprise me. 

I know, mate , I know.

Yvette Cooper.

[Scooby Dudek]

To go off slightly, I suppose it is all linked to how both parties are held to different standards. The grief Starmer is getting now in relation to Johnson and people just shrugging, that's just Boris. 

 

The same with policy and manifesto, Labour were the only party to provide a fully costed manifesto in 2017, yet they were taking stick for not being economically sound. 

 

Bully by Patel, Tories say move on and everyone does. 

Labour say not Abolish immediately live on television and yet for months and months asked about abolishing.

 

I have come to the point were I am so disillusioned that I just can not see the point in working/campaigning for anything anymore. Truly depressing times, Brexit, 100000 dead and yet I believe the Tories will still comfortably win the next election, irrespective of who the Labour or Tory lead is. 

They will just lie and ignore every negative whilst Labour get pulled up and have to defend lies that were created by the media. 

Truly depressing times.

[Bruce Spanner]

12 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

 

This policy was voted on at conference, which the party leadership, including all M.P.s are to base policy around. Plus the official line was not Abolish, just to tax, make them fairer.  

 

Fair enough in relation to semantics, I just think that Abolish has negative connotations and anyone having a pop at the leadership for that has an agenda. I say this relation to your post about fellow Labour M.P.s having a pop over policies. 

 

 

I was watching as well and it was genuinely when I knew we had no chance in the election.

 

They screwed it up so badly by coming out of the gates with a dvisory policy which sounded like an attack on 'The establishment' and bringing class into it striaght away.

 

Some people who own their house, mortaged to the hilt, rent a car and have credit card debt now see themselves as middle class and private school is aspirational to them, the fact they are what we'd consider working class doesn't matter.

 

I'd abolish them tomorrow, but I wouldn't tell the cunts until I had the power to do it and I certainly wouldn't make it about 'the politics of envy' i'd make it about raising aspirations for all.

 

It was mad looking back.

[Scooby Dudek]

As a way of bringing everyone together, and maybe explaining my mood I have just watched this;

 

 

 

To be fair, I actually found it interesting as a discussion between two Labour supports who have different views on Brexit, Corbyn and Starmer but actually managed to talk without calling each other cunts, hard left or right wing sell outs. 

[Scooby Dudek]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

I was watching as well and it was genuinely when I knew we had no chance in the election.

 

They screwed it up so badly by coming out of the gates with a dvisory policy which sounded like an attack on 'The establishment' and bringing class into it striaght away.

 

Some people who own their house, mortaged to the hilt, rent a car and have credit card debt now see themselves as middle class and private school is aspirational to them, the fact they are what we'd consider working class doesn't matter.

 

I'd abolish them tomorrow, but I wouldn't tell the cunts until I had the power to do it and I certainly wouldn't make it about 'the politics of envy' i'd make it about raising aspirations for all.

 

It was mad looking back.

I agree with all of that, however my point was conference voted on it, as I said I believe the leadership tried to prevent the vote taking place. I think the leadership knew how poorly it would play but once the vote took place and the new democracy of the party where conference has an input then the party had to make the best of it. Hence push the tax status and "integrate". 

 

This is were I then have a problem, the policy was voted in favour of by conference, hence the party reps had to get behind that policy. The usual suspects were then out calling Corbyn a nut case for the policy that he did not propose or necessarily support. 

[Rushies tash]

11 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

To go off slightly, I suppose it is all linked to how both parties are held to different standards. The grief Starmer is getting now in relation to Johnson and people just shrugging, that's just Boris. 

 

The same with policy and manifesto, Labour were the only party to provide a fully costed manifesto in 2017, yet they were taking stick for not being economically sound. 

 

Bully by Patel, Tories say move on and everyone does. 

Labour say not Abolish immediately live on television and yet for months and months asked about abolishing.

 

I have come to the point were I am so disillusioned that I just can not see the point in working/campaigning for anything anymore. Truly depressing times, Brexit, 100000 dead and yet I believe the Tories will still comfortably win the next election, irrespective of who the Labour or Tory lead is. 

They will just lie and ignore every negative whilst Labour get pulled up and have to defend lies that were created by the media. 

Truly depressing times.

Thats exactly where I'm at mate. I'm just glad there are people out there less disillusioned than I am who will carry on campaigning regardless. I'll still vote, for whatever good that will do.

[Scooby Dudek]

Patriotism seems relevant;

 

 

 

[Denny Crane]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

He was in a difficult position then mind. Let's be honest who would've wanted that job? It was a lose lose situation. It's easy to quibble but I thought he did ok.

I'm not offering judgement on his time as Brexit secretary more highlighting how the Conservatives will use it against him. 

 

Starmer as Labour leader isn't for me I find him a cowardly little establishment man devoid of any ideas or political instincts but like a few others have touched on -  the statement below sums up where I am. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

5 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

I'm not offering judgement on his time as Brexit secretary more highlighting how the Conservatives will use it against him. 

 

Starmer as Labour leader isn't for me I find him a cowardly little establishment man devoid of any ideas or political instincts but like a few others have touched on -  the statement below sums up where I am. 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand your veiw, and the fellas twitter post is pertinent and I'm borderline on thinking the same, but there is a long way to go towards the election but Starmer is surely the best bet out there to take away another landslide for the Conservatives?  Weve had a few alternative names brandished about on here today and they are hardly inspiring. I fully understand your point though. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Ignore button not working then oh pedantic one?  Wasnt it you who took the Spanner route the other day? 

I have no idea what that means, illiterate one. The ignore button is working fine. So is the show post button. 

[Gnasher]

On 01/02/2021 at 16:03, Numero said:

Oh, so you don’t know what fanfare is. Fair enough. There was exposure. 
 

You clearly didn’t read the report. 

 

It also included other things, like rooting out antisemitism from within the party. 

 

Labour, with a left wing agenda, with a cabinet chosen by the left wing leader, lost the election badly. You can cherry pick all you like, it won’t change the facts. 
 

Then you clearly don’t understand the problem. 
 

I’m just going to put you on ignore now. It’s circular nonsense and reading it just annoys me. All the best. 

Last paragraph oh educated beyond your standing one. You told me you were putting me on ignore. All the best.

[mattyq]

1 hour ago, Scooby Dudek said:

As a way of bringing everyone together, and maybe explaining my mood I have just watched this;

 

 

 

To be fair, I actually found it interesting as a discussion between two Labour supports who have different views on Brexit, Corbyn and Starmer but actually managed to talk without calling each other cunts, hard left or right wing sell outs. 

Thanks for that, was very interesting

I get what people are saying about Starmer and to a large extent it's fair enough. He is making mistakes and he isn't the most charismatic of leaders.

To me, that's almost irrelevant. What Johnson and the Tories have done over the last 10 years has just been evil and if you don't struggle against it then you condone it.

I also get what people are saying about being tired of the fight or can't be arsed anymore or the right wing of the Labour Party blah blah blah as it's fucking difficult and hard work and soul destroying at times but look at what happens if the Tories are given free range.. 100,000+ deaths, Brexit, the breakup of the UK, poverty on a scale not seen in several generations... and it'll only get worse

Choose your side 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Gnasher said:

Last paragraph oh educated beyond your standing one. You told me you were putting me on ignore. All the best.

I’ll do what I want. Ignore leaves a button, which I clicked. I mistakenly thought it might have been a polling tweet or something. Instead it was just more incoherent bollocks. 

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, Numero said:

I have no idea what that means, illiterate one. The ignore button is working fine. So is the show post button. 

You made a big fanfare only the other day of putting me on ignore yet here you are having sly digs hours later. Spanner did exactly the same on the eu thread made a hissy flounce then back in a heartbeat. I was wondering if maybe the ignore button wasn't working. I wouldn't know I've never being so fragile and childish to use it but everyone to their own I suppose.