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Keir Starmer


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You've got to be a bit concerned given all the favourable press Starmer's had, and the absolute shambles the Tories have made of Covid. If things don't change much during the inevitable recession/Brexit fallout, I hope LOTO have got a plan B to the 'sit tight, don't offend anyone, and hope the Tories fuck themselves' strategy.

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8 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

You've got to be a bit concerned given all the favourable press Starmer's had, and the absolute shambles the Tories have made of Covid. If things don't change much during the inevitable recession/Brexit fallout, I hope LOTO have got a plan B to the 'sit tight, don't offend anyone, and hope the Tories fuck themselves' strategy.

The Tories have been throwing money around like confetti at a wedding. Lets see what happens when the magic money well to drys up and people are sat at home on income support rather than 80%.

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Just now, Dougie Do'ins said:

The Tories have been throwing money around like confetti at a wedding. Lets see what happens when the magic money well to drys up and people are sat at home on income support rather than 80%.

Yep, hopefully that turns some of them, but honestly, I wouldn't actually be that surprised if it didn't given how much Brexit/silly flag waving nationalism has melted people's minds.

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On 04/08/2020 at 22:00, Duff Man said:

You've got to be a bit concerned given all the favourable press Starmer's had, and the absolute shambles the Tories have made of Covid. If things don't change much during the inevitable recession/Brexit fallout, I hope LOTO have got a plan B to the 'sit tight, don't offend anyone, and hope the Tories fuck themselves' strategy.

Getting constantly attacked by people who should really be attaching the tories instead, all of which is helping to keep the "labour civil war" and "party in crisis" aura around Labour intact. 

 

If you raise this though some will say "yeah but certain people did that to Corbyn". 

 

So we can all remain in our various factions attacking each other for years while the Tories win again. It's Tory enablement, nothing less. Nothing noble about it at all.

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On 04/08/2020 at 22:15, Dougie Do'ins said:

The Tories have been throwing money around like confetti at a wedding. Lets see what happens when the magic money well to drys up and people are sat at home on income support rather than 80%.

Quite incredible the spending they’ve done, never seen anything like it before from a Conservative Govt. There’s some serious pain on the horizon.

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34 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Getting constantly attacked by people who should really be attaching the tories instead, all of which is helping to keep the "labour civil war" and "party in crisis" aura around Labour intact. 

 

If you raise this though some will say "yeah but certain people did that to Corbyn". 

 


There’s no equivalence between the two when it comes to public perceptions Sec, none whatsoever. The attacks on Starmer from the left have barely registered with the media, whereas Corbyn’s opponents on the right were guaranteed substantial and sympathetic coverage whether on or off the record.

 

The Tory poll lead is down to overwhelming media support, Labour’s decision to tone down their criticism, and the enduring public belief that the Tories are better at managing the economy since the GFC, which none of Miliband, Corbyn or Starmer have seriously tried to rebut.

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32 minutes ago, Neil G said:

The Tory poll lead is down to overwhelming media support, Labour’s decision to tone down their criticism, and the enduring public belief that the Tories are better at managing the economy since the GFC, which none of Miliband, Corbyn or Starmer have seriously tried to rebut.

Well, I mean, I hate to be the guy that suddenly disagrees with every post you make - because we so often agree - but I can't see how this can be true. I can't see how we can legitimately point to the toned down criticism and lack of rebuttals for the Tory poll lead when we have seen the trend of the gap actually closing significantly since Corbyn left. In fact, according to that Opinium poll, it has gone from 23pts down to 3pts under Starmer. I'm not sure blaming Starmer's toned down criticism for the lead - the shrinking lead - is that accurate. I guess if you think Corbyn would be ahead in the polls if he was still leader then the claim could have some merit, but that would be quite a claim. 

 

And look, we shouldn't ignore the polls but we should also 1) look at them in the context of us being a few months into a new government where loads of people voted for them and aren't ready to switch yet 2) look at other relevant factors like popularity (Starmer seems to be doing well here, both with Labour supporters and with the wider public) 3) realise that we can't take every couple of upwards points as significant progress and every downward point as solid evidence of our preexisting views 3) prefer to look at trends, which happen to show that Labour are gaining over a period of time. As a starting point that's good news if you want the Tories out. The trick for Starmer has to be for it to continue. 

 

Anyway, I've pretty much given up on Labour winning a majority. I just hope a left-leaning coalition can be forged. 

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7 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Getting constantly attacked by people who should really be attaching the tories instead, all of which is helping to keep the "labour civil war" and "party in crisis" aura around Labour intact. 

 

If you raise this though some will say "yeah but certain people did that to Corbyn". 

 

So we can all remain in our various factions attacking each other for years while the Tories win again. It's Tory enablement, nothing less. Nothing noble about it at all.

Good god we're fucked . After the amount of shit Corbyn had to endure for being a socialist, because it wasnt for being an anti semite,  you moan about the treatment Starmer recieves.

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9 hours ago, Neil G said:


There’s no equivalence between the two when it comes to public perceptions Sec, none whatsoever. The attacks on Starmer from the left have barely registered with the media, whereas Corbyn’s opponents on the right were guaranteed substantial and sympathetic coverage whether on or off the record.

 

The Tory poll lead is down to overwhelming media support, Labour’s decision to tone down their criticism, and the enduring public belief that the Tories are better at managing the economy since the GFC, which none of Miliband, Corbyn or Starmer have seriously tried to rebut.

 

How do you know that Neil? The media is a powerful tool but it's become a bit of a get out of jail card and assumes that all voters are idiots. It also assumes that the grassroots Labour members who voted for Starmer, and who are not having that choice respected by certain quarters, are also idiots. Basically, you're susceptible to propaganda unless, like myself, you can see the truth.

 

I've said previously that I reckon the polls will be skewered for a while due to the 'wartime' feel of what's going on in the country. 

 

All these stories (a union boss digging in this week) are corrosive and they provide never-ending ammunition for the right, making it easy to paint the party as being in perpetual crisis.

 

If Starmer has a chance of making the party electable again, he has been - and will continue to be - undermined by people who've been determining to do so since he ever took his post. It will continue for years, regardless of what he says or does, because he is not jeremu corbyn or Jeremy Corbyn's chosen replacement.

 

"I thoght he was supposed to uite the party?" They say glibly while reshaing yet another article from The Canary (Starmer is always in the top five stories seemingly, as is is in Novara and Squarkbox, despite the current shite being unleashed by Labour's actual opposition).

 

I genuinely don't understand how people can claim to want what's best for people while contributing to a narrative that will doubtless keep labour out of power for the next ten years. One can only claim that it's not a genuine desire, just a stated one in many cases.

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23 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

How do you know that Neil? The media is a powerful tool but it's become a bit of a get out of jail card and assumes that all voters are idiots. It also assumes that the grassroots Labour members who voted for Starmer, and who are not having that choice respected by certain quarters, are also idiots. Basically, you're susceptible to propaganda unless, like myself, you can see the truth.

 

I've said previously that I reckon the polls will be skewered for a while due to the 'wartime' feel of what's going on in the country. 

 

All these stories (a union boss digging in this week) are corrosive and they provide never-ending ammunition for the right, making it easy to paint the party as being in perpetual crisis.

 

If Starmer has a chance of making the party electable again, he has been - and will continue to be - undermined by people who've been determining to do so since he ever took his post. It will continue for years, regardless of what he says or does, because he is not jeremu corbyn or Jeremy Corbyn's chosen replacement.

 

"I thoght he was supposed to uite the party?" They say glibly while reshaing yet another article from The Canary (Starmer is always in the top five stories seemingly, as is is in Novara and Squarkbox, despite the current shite being unleashed by Labour's actual opposition).

 

I genuinely don't understand how people can claim to want what's best for people while contributing to a narrative that will doubtless keep labour out of power for the next ten years. One can only claim that it's not a genuine desire, just a stated one in many cases.

I think the leader tries to make his own narrative (although the press and a chunk of the parliamentary labour party refused Corbyn making his) Starmer chose to sack long Bailey and received imo a fair amount of good grace from the left in the circumstances. The decision to give labour funds to traitors has understandably rankled many of the rank and file, it's a decision that has forced one the leader of one of Britain's biggest unions to object, hes not some writer for the canary. It's a political route Starmer has chosen to take, to blame others is churlish.

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3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

Good god we're fucked . After the amount of shit Corbyn had to endure for being a socialist, because it wasnt for being an anti semite,  you moan about the treatment Starmer recieves.

 

This is part of the problem. That it doesn't matter if people are attacking starmer because people attacked corbyn, therefor it's an eye for an eye and all fair, which isn't really how it's supposed to work. The aim of the game is to replace your opponent party and form a government, not settles scores with what is supposedly your own side.

 

People are perfectly entitled to dislike Starmer, I thoght Ed Miliband was shite and my opinion on Corbyn went back and forth depending one what he'd done or hadn't done. 

 

But if people are foaming at the mouth to stick the boot into Starmer, in some cases even before he started the job, or even now only a few months in, pretty much all of which have been spent during a global pandemic when all the normal rules of politics and society have gone out the window, then they're gonna have their motives called into question and future gripes, no matter how justified, will be too. Boy who cried wolf.

 

I presume you don't like starmer because he was pro EU? In fairness, I'd say that's a justified reason, certainly more justufied than the fact he had pomade on his hair or is a knight.

 

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6 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Genuine question if we didn’t get the union choice Ed Milliband do people think David would have done a better job with polling?

I said something to Moof the other day, as at the time of that leadership election I was hardcore slagging off David Miliband, but it has got so bad with these Tory cunts that I’d happily take David fucking Miliband. Happily. We are in a fucking state. 

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11 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Genuine question if we didn’t get the union choice Ed Milliband do people think David would have done a better job with polling?

Possibly. It's hard to say how history would have unfolded differently because if Labour had made a greater dent into the Tory majority and forced them to stay in coalition with the Lib Dems, the Brexit would never have happened and we'd be in a completely different kind of politics than the one Labour has been embroiled in for the last few years. The Red Wall certainly wouldn't have been an issue but Labour still would have lost Scotland regardless at that election. David's appeal to the average Scott wouldn't be great, I imagine. 

 

That being said, I feel Corbyn's time in the Labour party 'had' to happen. I wouldn't want a David Miliband-inspired new Labour continuation project, I wanted Labour to go more to the left than it was, but I want it to keep the parts of the New Labour machine that helped it win elections. Without the Corbyn era I doubt you'd see people like Angie Rayner being a significant force in politics.

 

But what I want now is for all 'sides' to be reconciled so we can get on with the job at hand of kicking the Tories out. Anyone who gets in the way of that is a direct threat to me and mine, and the countless millions who need a Labour government. 

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