Keir Starmer

[Duff Man]

Just now, Bruce Spanner said:

But, people at HQ, and especially in the PLP & Momentum are actively working against Starmer. Maybe not as overtly, but the same games are being played.

 

It’s pathetic that personal battles and age old grievances are being put before getting the worst ever iteration of the Tories out and trying to salvage what’s left of this country in the upcoming years. 
 

I’ve said it before and I’ll just repeat for the hard of fucking hearing. I worked on/supported Corbyn’s election campaigns and I will work on/support Starmer’s campaign. In an ideal world I would like Corbyn’s policies, but am self aware enough to know that the majority in the UK are led by self interest so would look to compromise. I don’t believe Starmer is the man who will lead us to a golden utopia, but I believe he is a principled, vastly qualified, experienced labour politician who has the best interests of most people in the UK at heart and would, if labour manage to escape this circular self destruction, be a very good prime minster in a coalition government.

 

Its like pushing a stone up a hill with your nose trying to accomplish anything though when we are actively conspiring against each other and actively enabling the worst manifestations of the Tories to run roughshod of you, me, our children and every other stupid cunt who can’t see the wood for the trees.

 

People in HQ  and the PLP are actively working against Starmer, are they? Where's the evidence for that?

[Bruce Spanner]

Just now, Duff Man said:

People in HQ  and the PLP are actively working against Starmer, are they? Where's the evidence for that?

Why cut out momentum, they are, for whatever reasons, rightly or wrongly, central to everything, are they not? 
 

Corbyn and Momentum stacked both, they have axes to grind, they’re grinding axes. 
 

The evidence is clear as day, like it was for Corbyn, self destructive bullshit because ‘I’m more socialist than thou and my way is the only true way.’ 

[Duff Man]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Why cut out momentum, they are, for whatever reasons, rightly or wrongly, central to everything, are they not? 
 

Corbyn and Momentum stacked both, they have axes to grind, they’re grinding axes. 
 

The evidence is clear as day, like it was for Corbyn, self destructive bullshit because ‘I’m more socialist than thou and my way is the only true way.’ 

So, none at all, then.

[Bruce Spanner]

8 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

So, none at all, then.

No, none, none of the self destructive bullshit...

 

Momentum did a very effective job of shoehorning it’s people into the PLP, effectively consolidating power and ensuring that their voice, or a version of it, will always be represented. 
 

It’s pointless to say otherwise as we all had the emails asking us to vote for their people, telling us what was wrong with everybody else and why it’s in Labours best interest to make sure that the PLP was ‘controlled’. Momentum are not labour but they did a very fucking effective job of making people believe they were.

 

[Duff Man]

Just now, Bruce Spanner said:

No, none, none of the self destructive bullshit...

 

Momentum did a very effective job of shoehorning it’s people into the PLP, effectively consolidating power and ensuring that their voice, or a version of it, will always be represented. 
 

It’s pointless to say otherwise as we all had the emails asking us to vote for their people, telling us what was wrong with everybody else and why it’s in Labours best interest to make sure that the PLP was ‘controlled’. Momentum are not labour but they did a very ducking effective job of making people believe they were.

 

Re Momentum: that's the membership/grassroots having a say. If you don't like that, fine, but it will always happen; and it should, too.

 

But again, not seeing any evidence of HQ/PLP actively working against Starmer in the same way those cunts did between 2016-18.

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Re Momentum: that's the membership/grassroots having a say. If you don't like that, fine, but it will always happen; and it should, too.

 

But again, not seeing any evidence of HQ/PLP actively working against Starmer in the same way those cunts did between 2016-18.

They worked/campaigned to have their people in place, it’s simple. They actively tried to sway the voting with their constant emails. They now have people in the PLP and HQ who are there on the Momentum ticket.

 

Starmer doesn’t have it as rough, you’re right, but because he’s being given an easier ride doesn’t mean he’s got it easy, binaries are easy nuance isn’t. 

[Duff Man]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

They worked/campaigned to have their people in place, it’s simple. They actively tried to sway the voting with their constant emails. They now have people in the PLP and HQ who are there in the Momentum ticket.

 

Starmer doesn’t have it as rough, you’re right, but because he’s being given an easier ride doesn’t mean he’s got it easy, binaries are easy nuance isn’t. 

The membership wanting MPs who represent their own views/ideology is absolutely not evidence of HQ/the PLP actively working against the leader. This is silly.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

The membership wanting MPs who represent their own views/ideology is absolutely not evidence of HQ/the PLP actively working against the leader. This is silly.

It is silly if it was that cut and dry, but as we see it clearly isn’t.

[Duff Man]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

It is silly if it was that cut and dry, but as we see it clearly isn’t.

You said MPs and HQ were actively working against Starmer, and you've substantiated it with the membership having preferences re MPs.

 

EDIT - and an interview with a member on LBC.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

You said MPs and HQ were actively working against Starmer, and you've substantiated it with the membership having preferences re MPs.

 

EDIT - and an interview with a member on LBC.

 

From the daily propaganda rag...

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/06/27/skwawkbox-editor-lodges-formal-antisemitism-complaint-against-keir-starmer-for-conflation-of-jewish-people-with-actions-of-israeli-government-in-breach-of-ihra-code/
 

Local politics...

 

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/momentum-camden-has-called-for-a-vote-of-no-confidence-in-sir-keir-starmer

 

Oh, we’re so edgy anarchists 

 

https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/21454-the-starmer-supremacy-labour-is-now-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-struggles-that-matter

 

Yep, I’m even going huff post! 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/keir-starmer-warns-labour-members-againstfactionalism_uk_5e976b14c5b6ead14006e876/

 

Because why not a view from the enemy...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1311553/Keir-starmer-news-labour-civil-war-jeremy-corbyn-news-labour-leadership-uk-news/amp

 

This is actually quite. interesting...

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/4ay48g/labour-left-keir-starmer-corbyn-momentum

 

Because, we’ll, why not, let them bask in the Pyrrhic victory.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-momentum-member-ballot-deputy-candidates-a9283826.html%3Famp

 

Anyhow’s as I said before Starmer has had it easier, but not easy and some are working against him.

 

Tonights my wedding anniversary so I’ll bid you farewell for now.

[Duff Man]

Literally none of that is evidence of HQ or the PLP actively working against Starmer. Bizarre.

[Duff Man]

You want there to be an equivalence between what those staffers were up to in 2017/18, and what's going on now, but there just isn't one. Not even close.

[Bruce Spanner]

13 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Literally none of that is evidence of HQ or the PLP actively working against Starmer. Bizarre.

I’m sorry I’ll get together the secret recordings, emails, WhatsApp messages that come to light years later at some point in the not to distant future.

 

In the meantime we’ll have to just exist on what currently exists and is out there and highlights division and scores being/yet to be settled.

[Duff Man]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I’m sorry I’ll get together the secret recordings, emails, WhatsApp messages that come to light years later at some point in the not to distant future.

 

In the meantime we’ll have to just exist on what currently exists and is out there and highlights division and scores being/yet to be settled.

Mate, this is so daft. Dissent amongst the membership is evidence of... dissent amongst the membership, and nothing more.

[Bruce Spanner]

1 minute ago, Duff Man said:

Mate, this is so daft. Dissent amongst the membership is evidence of... dissent amongst the membership, and nothing more.

Cool.

[Section_31]

45 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Re Momentum: that's the membership/grassroots having a say. If you don't like that, fine, but it will always happen; and it should, too.

 

How is Momentum the 'grass roots' of the Labour party?

 

And what about the Labour members who voted en mass for Starmer as leader but who's choice seems to be being derided as having smuggled in an establishment stooge? Aren't they grass roots?

 

What about  the people who joined the party purely to vote for Corbyn? How can they claim to be grassroots labour supporters? They're Jeremy Corbyn supporters. 

 

A labour man (or woman) is a labour man, they vote and support labour, pay their dues, knock on doors if needs be regardless of whether they do or don't like Kinnock or Ed Miliband or whoever else. They don't join another organisation and found blogs and websites to stick the boot in to the person who doesn't fit their very specific idea of what the Labour party should be.

 

[Gnasher]

56 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

It is silly if it was that cut and dry, but as we see it clearly isn’t.

You're having a mare Bruce.

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

How is Momentum the 'grass roots' of the Labour party?

 

And what about the Labour members who voted en mass for Starmer as leader but who's choice seems to be being derided as having smuggled in an establishment stooge? Aren't they grass roots?

 

What about  the people who joined the party purely to vote for Corbyn? How can they claim to be grassroots labour supporters? They're Jeremy Corbyn supporters. 

 

A labour man (or woman) is a labour man, they vote and support labour, pay their dues, knock on doors if needs be regardless of whether they do or don't like Kinnock or Ed Miliband or whoever else. They don't join another organisation and found blogs and websites to stick the boot in to the person who doesn't fit their very specific idea of what the Labour party should be.

 

Maybe they didnt join for Corbyn maybe they joined because of his promise of socialism, which as they are joining the labour party is really not that shocking or surreal.

[Duff Man]

29 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

How is Momentum the 'grass roots' of the Labour party?

 

And what about the Labour members who voted en mass for Starmer as leader but who's choice seems to be being derided as having smuggled in an establishment stooge? Aren't they grass roots?

 

What about  the people who joined the party purely to vote for Corbyn? How can they claim to be grassroots labour supporters? They're Jeremy Corbyn supporters. 

 

A labour man (or woman) is a labour man, they vote and support labour, pay their dues, knock on doors if needs be regardless of whether they do or don't like Kinnock or Ed Miliband or whoever else. They don't join another organisation and found blogs and websites to stick the boot in to the person who doesn't fit their very specific idea of what the Labour party should be.

 

How is Momentum the 'grass roots' of the Labour party?

 

Momentum is formed largely of members, is it not? I can't be arsed with a debate over semantics, but who would you class as Labour's grass roots, if it's not members?

 

And what about the Labour members who voted en mass for Starmer as leader but who's choice seems to be being derided as having smuggled in an establishment stooge? Aren't they grass roots?

 

Sure. I'd class any member as such.

 

What about  the people who joined the party purely to vote for Corbyn? How can they claim to be grassroots labour supporters? They're Jeremy Corbyn supporters. 

 

Again, I'd class anyone who's just a member as a grass roots supporter. Even someone who joined just because of Starmer. Aside from that, though, it's bizarre you would just assert that everyone who joined under Corbyn was just a Corbyn supporter. I know plenty of people who were members for decades, then left under Blair, and re-joined under Corbyn. They were/are Labour through and through, as well as Corbyn supporters. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

A labour man (or woman) is a labour man, they vote and support labour, pay their dues, knock on doors if needs be regardless of whether they do or don't like Kinnock or Ed Miliband or whoever else. They don't join another organisation and found blogs and websites to stick the boot in to the person who doesn't fit their very specific idea of what the Labour party should be.

 

How is Momentum any different from Blue Labour or Progress etc?  They're just groups of members within the overall membership. And if you're worried about people sticking the boot in, maybe prioritise the the dickheads like Streeting and Phillips who spent years doing it in the Times and on the BBC etc.

[sir roger]

Not sure what the obsession with Momentum is. They are a pressure group for socialist ideals in much the same way as Progress and Labour First look out for the centre and right of the party. They have about 30,000 members so I have no idea how it is supposed to have control over the party. I seem to remember they were going to throw out every 'good' Labour mp via deselection but that turned out to be fairy tales , and it is surprising that this hotbed of anti-Semitism was set up by 3 Jewish people out of 4. I expect this ' reds under the beds' shit on the Daily Mail website but not here.

 

( scooped by Duff Man )

[Duff Man]

Ha, just remembering all the bullshit panic stories over deselections. What a joke political coverage is in this country.

[Bruce Spanner]

4 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Ha, just remembering all the bullshit panic stories over deselections. What a joke political coverage is in this country.

Momentum literally announced it.

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/momentum-launches-bid-to-help-labour-members-deselect-sitting-mps

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/12/momentum-drive-labour-members-deselect-mps

[Duff Man]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Momentum literally announced it.

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/momentum-launches-bid-to-help-labour-members-deselect-sitting-mps

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/12/momentum-drive-labour-members-deselect-mps

So what? It's a good thing, and other parties do it. The framing was the issue.

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Duff Man said:

People in HQ  and the PLP are actively working against Starmer, are they? Where's the evidence for that?

 

Ah, so some claims do require evidence. Good to know.

[Bruce Spanner]

2 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

So what? It's a good thing, and other parties do it. The framing was the issue.

It’s a good thing for an unelected, unaccountable group to force itself in to democratic process?