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Keir Starmer


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I’m okay with him sacking Steve Reed. As far as anti-semitic comments go, that’s the worst as I’ve seen from a British politician over the last five years or so. Labour can’t afford to have another anti-semitism saga hanging over them. Just nip it in the bud.

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22 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I’m okay with him sacking Steve Reed. As far as anti-semitic comments go, that’s the worst as I’ve seen from a British politician over the last five years or so. Labour can’t afford to have another anti-semitism saga hanging over them. Just nip it in the bud.

 

But I dont think Starmer has stacked Steve Reed.  I know he definitely sacked Rebecca long Bailey,  I'm not sure on the full details of the Bailey sacking but if it was for liking the tweet regarding Israeli police it seems draconian, if it was for not apologising for liking the tweet then Starmer has imo got a case. The trouble for Starmer now is for the next four years his line will be judged on the Bailey sacking.

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It wasn’t Israeli police. Please stop saying that. 
 

It was clearly for not taking it down. If he sacked her for retweeting it he wouldn’t have had multiple discussions with her about taking it down. It was only when she wouldn’t take it down that he fired her. It’s been the same thing with Reed. The difference is he did take it down and apologise. RLB did not. 
 

It’s not a chore to hold people to account and be consistent. 
 

 

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22 minutes ago, Numero said:

It wasn’t Israeli police. Please stop saying that. 
 

It was clearly for not taking it down. If he sacked her for retweeting it he wouldn’t have had multiple discussions with her about taking it down. It was only when she wouldn’t take it down that he fired her. It’s been the same thing with Reed. The difference is he did take it down and apologise. RLB did not. 
 

It’s not a chore to hold people to account and be consistent. 
 

 

What wasnt Isreali police? The original maxine peak tweet?

 

I cant her tweet now but I read it at the time and it seemed pretty valid and innocuous to me but I'm obviously not a senior labour politician who's party is embroiled in anti semitism slurs.

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1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

What wasnt Isreali police? The original maxine peak tweet?

 

The original article. It wasn’t Israeli police training American police. It was American police were taught to kneel on George Floyd’s neck by Israeli secret services. It’s a pack of unsubstantiated nonsense that plays into prejudice by regurgitating well known tropes about Mossad and does its bit to add to that prejudice. I don’t think Maxine Peake is antisemitic, I think she is ignorant. She apologised and retracted. I don’t think the Independent is antisemitic, I think they were ignorant. They retracted and removed the comments. I don’t think RLB is antisemitic, I think she is ignorant and made a mistake. She would not retract and apologise, and still has not. I don’t think Reed is antisemitic, I think he was ignorant. He retracted and apologised. Spot the odd one out, luvvie. 

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7 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I honestly think sacking RLB for not wanting to remove her tweet without providing some sort of explanation, is actually a worse look for Starmer than if he sacked her for being anti-semitic.

Who was stopping her from removing it and giving an explanation? Who has stopped her from removing it and writing an explanation since she was sacked? Nobody. It was just a thing she said to try to cover herself. You can believe her if you want, but the fact she hasn’t and can do so shows she’s making it up. 
 

Fortunately, many people think it was the right choice and he has won support over it. 

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4 minutes ago, Numero said:

Who was stopping her from removing it and giving an explanation? Who has stopped her from removing it and writing an explanation since she was sacked? Nobody. It was just a thing she said to try to cover herself. You can believe her if you want, but the fact she hasn’t and can do Sonos shows she’s making it up. 
 

Fortunately, many people think it was the right choice and he has won support over it. 

Yeah that’s fine, I just would like him to sack Steve Reed as his tweet was undeniably anti-semitic. Closer to the election this will be brought up by the centrists and the right as an example of Starmer endorsing anti-semitism. 

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22 minutes ago, Numero said:

The original article. It wasn’t Israeli police training American police. It was American police were taught to kneel on George Floyd’s neck by Israeli secret services. It’s a pack of unsubstantiated nonsense that plays into prejudice by regurgitating well known tropes about Mossad and does its bit to add to that prejudice. I don’t think Maxine Peake is antisemitic, I think she is ignorant. She apologised and retracted. I don’t think the Independent is antisemitic, I think they were ignorant. They retracted and removed the comments. I don’t think RLB is antisemitic, I think she is ignorant and made a mistake. She would not retract and apologise, and still has not. I don’t think Reed is antisemitic, I think he was ignorant. He retracted and apologised. Spot the odd one out, luvvie. 

So it was Israeli police.

 

As I said in a post above, I believe Starmer sacked Bailey for the non apology. Which you just confirmed.

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1 hour ago, aRdja said:

Yeah that’s fine, I just would like him to sack Steve Reed as his tweet was undeniably anti-semitic. Closer to the election this will be brought up by the centrists and the right as an example of Starmer endorsing anti-semitism. 

There's a 2018 movie called Puppet Master The Littlest Reich. Would it be anti-Semitic to watch it? It's 68% on Rotten so it's probably not a bad movie to watch. Just want to be sure that I'm not being an anti-Semite by watching something that is so obviously named to aggravate the Jewish people.

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5 minutes ago, skend04 said:

There's a 2018 movie called Puppet Master The Littlest Reich. Would it be anti-Semitic to watch it? It's 68% on Rotten so it's probably not a bad movie to watch. Just want to be sure that I'm not being an anti-Semite by watching something that is so obviously named to aggravate the Jewish people.

Don’t be silly. Calling a Jewish donor a puppet master is an anti-semitic comment, no two ways about it.

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5 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Don’t be silly. Calling a Jewish donor a puppet master is an anti-semitic comment, no two ways about it.

So you can call every Tory donor, who are getting bungs and favours for their financial support, a puppet master except for the Jewish ones? That's a bit strange isn't it. But I guess everything any one to the left of the current Tory party says is anti-Semitic. 

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7 minutes ago, skend04 said:

So you can call every Tory donor, who are getting bungs and favours for their financial support, a puppet master except for the Jewish ones? That's a bit strange isn't it.

That is the bit I don't get. You can call out people and countries for terrible things. Major report released slagging China off for interference in other countries. Obviously China say it is anti Chinese propaganda but no one is being called out over the report or reporting it. If someone is doing something bad and you call them out correctly on what they are doing how can it be wrong/racist/anti-Semitic to do so ?

 

If Murdoch was Jewish could you not call out him owning newspapers and using them to influence various governments ? 

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I posted this, or something similar years ago.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/13/leftwing-self-censorship-uk

 

It's the idea that we've become so entrenched on the left with the idea that every position has to be thought through to make sure no offence, either perceived of overt, is felt by anybody anywhere, that we are effectively crippling our ability to have a progressive discourse, because we are scared to say anything through self censorship.

 

This has been harnessed by the right, and more insidiously by the far right, to back 'the left' in to ideological quagmires so effectively that we are tearing ourselves apart trying not to offend that we ignore the enemy.

 

It's OK to say 'I've not got a fucking clue about trans rights, but I'll leave it to somebody better placed to deal with it while I continue to fight the real issue, the rise and direction of dichotomous, populist, hate filled and delibratley divisive, power grab politics' but we can't do that has every cunt has to prove they're more worthy than the next while the most worthless, duplicitous cunts run roughshod over everything we worked collectively to build.

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1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I posted this, or something similar years ago.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/13/leftwing-self-censorship-uk

 

It's the idea that we've become so entrenched on the left with the idea that every position has to be thought through to make sure no offence, either perceived of overt, is felt by anybody anywhere, that we are effectively crippling ourselves ideologically because we are scared to say anything through self censorship.

 

This has been harnessed by the right, and more insidiously by the far right, to back 'the left' in to ideological quagmires so effectively that we are tearing ourselves apart trying not to offend that we ignore the enemy.

 

It's OK to say 'I've not got a fucking clue about trans rights, but I'll leave it to somebody better placed to deal with it while I continue to fight the real issue, the rise and direction of dichotomous, populist, hate filled and delibratley divisive, power grab politics' but we can't do that has every cunt has to prove they're more worthy than the next while the most worthless, duplicitous cunts run roughshod over everything we worked collectively to build,

I get the point but isn't this the opposite ?

Calling someone out for giving money to a political party for personal gain should be a perfectly correct thing to do but in this case it is presented as bring wrong and anti-Semitic by the right so they can ride roughshod over everything.

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4 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I get the point but isn't this the opposite ?

Calling someone out for giving money to a political party for personal gain should be a perfectly correct thing to do but in this case it is presented as bring wrong and anti-Semitic by the right so they can ride roughshod over everything.

 

Yes, it is correct to call it out, but it is then thrown out that 'we' are anti-semities for saying it, which never even crossed 'our' minds, which forces 'us' to question ourselves leading to the self censorship in the next instance.

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2 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

Yes, it is correct to call it out, but it is then thrown out that 'we' are anti-semities for saying it, which forces 'us' to question ourselves leading to the self censorship in the next instance.

However, it is the right calling "us" out as a deliberate tactic to deflect and cause the self censorship of which you speak.

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4 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

However, it is the right calling "us" out as a deliberate tactic to deflect and cause the self censorship of which you speak.

 

To a degree yes it is utilised and effective by the right, but moreso ourselves in the 'left' through our pearl clutching and oneupmanship through being a better leftie than thou nonsense.

 

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43 minutes ago, skend04 said:

So you can call every Tory donor, who are getting bungs and favours for their financial support, a puppet master except for the Jewish ones? That's a bit strange isn't it. But I guess everything any one to the left of the current Tory party says is anti-Semitic. 

It’s not strange at all. Jews controlling the world is one of the most well-known anti-semitic tropes. It’s as bad as (I’d go as far as saying more dangerous for the Jewish community) calling your mate who’s a bit of a tight arse a Jew. I think sacking him would save Labour a lot of trouble in the future. 

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7 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

There won't be any trouble. He apologised for it, we move on. If you ask me, John McDonnell following and retweeting Holocaust deniers is much worse, but that's had no traction whatsoever. 

I disagree. The centrists and the right will definitely use this to attack Labour, leading up to the next election. This will he used as an example of Starmer turning a blind eye on anti-semitism. Why take that risk when you can nip it in the bud right now and so easily? This isn’t a random MP clumsily retweeting a comment, this was Steve Reed’s actual opinion that a rich jew was pulling the strings. 

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I see no problem in calling the massive political donors like the Koch brothers, Barclay brothers, big corporations the big media barons "puppet masters" or anybody you feel politicians try to please far more than they do the wider public. Saying politicians are in thrall to big money and act like puppets to their paymasters isn't about religion, race or culture. If you specifically only label Jewish donors as such then fair enough you have an agenda, there are people who do believe that conspiracy and it is harmful but their motivations would become apparent soon enough, you'd hope.

 

The way I see it a cunts a cunt and should be called out as such. Peoples motivations are their own. There's a bloke I know who is gay and I can't stand him! he is a horrible person, I don't like him because he is a horrible person, there will be people who don't like him just because he is gay. We both don't like him, it doesn't mean our dislike comes from the same place. The difference is my dislike is retained for the individual and stays with the individual, he represents himself and nobody else. 

 

I've gone round the world just to say I find it scary how people can try to destroy others lives by creating their own motivations behind what someone else has said. People can say things without fully taking on board the implications or historical meaning behind it or without even thinking how it could be twisted or framed, it shouldn't start a vendetta and an apology should sometimes be enough if it's needed. A white kid with dreadlocks isn't thinking about his hair once being a symbol of defiance for black people, the kid just likes dreadlocks even if he looks like a tit. Our every word shouldn't carry the baggage of history it should be taken in context with what we are saying and our character, who we are. We can't create a fear of dialogue because we haven't researched our every thought and played out the many ways it can be interpreted.

 

Surely most people have the basic sense to see what a person means and whether what they are saying comes from a good place or not. Like Evertonians saying Justice for the 39, that doesn't come from a good place, it isn't said in genuine sympathy for those lives lost, it's a means to attack a rival. You can see through the veneer it's so thinly made. 

 

So yeah. I just wish people would calm down take a step back and I don't know may be fuck off a little bit.

 

 

 

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