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Keir Starmer


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2 hours ago, cloggypop said:

Challenging "Boris" Johnson to do 50 press ups at PMQs is pretty funny. 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-challenges-boris-johnson-22269986?111

A bit reminiscent of Trump and one of his Republican rivals (Marco Rubio?) trading jibes about cock size a few years ago.

 

There are more important things he should be challenging Johnson to do - the job of a Prime Minister, for one.

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35 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

A bit reminiscent of Trump and one of his Republican rivals (Marco Rubio?) trading jibes about cock size a few years ago.

 

There are more important things he should be challenging Johnson to do - the job of a Prime Minister, for one.

When "Boris" is doing 1 push up in a pathetic attempt at looking strong to the general public I find it pretty funny. 

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12 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

It was funny. 

People moan because he’s got no personality or charisma, he makes a joke and then they moan that he’s not being serious enough. Almost like whatever he says they’re going to moan about him. 

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3 hours ago, Brownie said:

Apologies for the terse post but that was for a couple of reasons:

 

1) I was about to join a conference call with work so didn't really have time to expand.

No worries at all, mate. I only queried it because it's not your usual approach. Totally understandable. 

3 hours ago, Brownie said:

2) Regardless of number 1, I still wanted to make the point about how sad it is see to witness people ripping each other to shreds and repeating arguments that are years old now. I can expand on it now.

Before I go on, I totally agree. It has been going on for a long time, first against Corbyn and his team and now against Starmer. I've spoken about in on here a lot; the left (meaning everything left of the centre all the way through to insane people) is eating itself. It was damaging then and it is damaging now. I had hoped that it would end with Corbyn going, but it hasn't. I believe there's a touch of vengeance of the whole thing. It's misplaced and seemingly ineffective. I think it will slowly fizzle out. 

3 hours ago, Brownie said:

All of this "Corbynite", "Centrist", "Blairite" etc stuff is tiresome. I've been guilty of it too and sometimes they are just off-the-cuff statements but it's not getting us anywhere other than being antagonising to each other.

There's a significant difference between your 'ites' and your 'ists'. Jair is completely right to say that Corbyn wasn't the originator of his policies. Corbyn is just one of many old school, old Labour lefties. Nothing at all wrong with that, it's one of the things I like about Corbyn, but there's nothing particularly unique or remarkable about him as a political force. There's a false equivalence between being a Corbyn supporter and being a socialist. It's not like he has invented a school of thought and adherents to that school are Corbynites. That's not what it means at all.

 

In this instance, it's just a factional identifier. I'm sure you know exactly who I'm referring to. I'm sure everyone knows exactly who I'm talking about when I say Corbynites. They have become caricatures of themselves at this point. You can be a socialist and not a Corbynite. You can, like me, vote for Corbyn and not be a Corbynite. There are people involved in or interested in politics who have fully developed views on policies and political positions. Then there are people who are, for want of a better term, fans. Corbyn, for some fucking reason, has a set of people who are fanatical. They follow him with zeal and fire, and unfortunately a lot of ignorance and bluster too. Then there are people who wanted him to win because he aligns with their views. I've gone to lengths clearly separate those two groups. 

 

As for the 'ists'. A centrist, which is what I was called earlier in the thread - in total opposition to everything I've written on here for the last decade - is a position on the political spectrum. That's not about supporting a person or their platform, like a Bennite, Brownite, Corbynite, or whatever, it's about policy and views. I was called a centrist by Sir Roger. Now, Sir Roger didn’t say in which ways I was a centrist. I think this is mainly because if he tried to, the only thing he could legitimate say is that I don’t support Corbyn. Not a word on my political views - you know, the only things that actually determine where you are on the spectrum - but because of my lack of support for one man and his approach.

 

There's nothing inherently left or right wing about having an issue with the way somebody approaches an election. There's nothing right or left wing about criticising somebody for the way they handled important things. There's nothing inherently left wing about accepting poor performance. When I criticise Corbyn, it doesn't mean I've stopped believing in social egalitarianism. It doesn't mean I've stopped wanting a set of public healthcare and welfare systems in place. It doesn't mean anything other than I think he did a very bad job and left a very bad situation for his successor. If that makes me a centrist, the game's up; everything is broken and nothing means anything anymore. 

 

3 hours ago, Brownie said:

Having said that, I do have my suspicions about Starmer and the leadership team as a whole and they were probably content that this situation presented itself and therefore gave them an opportunity to make the change.

Okay, but what is this suspicion actually based on. I'm not saying it's wrong, they might be sat twisting their moustaches and hatching a masterplan, but I don't know what there is to actually suggest that at the moment. I've read a few people on this thread say similar things and it baffles me. It's just strange to me to hear it without any real evidence that I've seen or anybody has actually presented. If there is, fuck me, I need to know about it so I can be less vocal in my rebuttal of what I consider to be woefully unfair and inaccurate criticism.

 

3 hours ago, Brownie said:

I'm concerned about some of the noises coming out of Labour right now, they seem to be adopting largely similar approaches to the Tories with some subtle differences.

Aside from pledging to keeping many of Corbyn's policies, Starmer's team don't seem to have come out with any policy at all. There's obviously this pandemic going on, but Labour can't just oppose for the sake of it. There are some things that are just necessary and Labour should support he government in the national interest. Then there's the things that they don't agree on, which there's a lot of examples of in interviews and PMQs. But look, he has been in the job 2 months. I've taken longer shits. Well, almost. I think it's a tad early to be judging this opposition on their approaches to things. They haven't really had much to approach. 

 

3 hours ago, Brownie said:

My view remains the same; live and die by your principles, don't change them just to "win".

Like I said before, that's perfectly valid by my reckoning; I just disagree with it. Anyway, what are the collective principles of the Labour Party? That's where just sticking by your views becomes tricky. I just hope the live and die doesn't result in permadeath. Perpetual Tory rule so I can have it just my way isn't doing justice to those who badly need it, in my view. 

 

In regards to Starmer. I'm really just rebutting things I see as inaccuracies. Not because I think he's some saviour or whatever. He has a lot to prove to everybody. I just think those trying to cut the legs out from under him out of petty spite and misguided loyalty are cutting off their noses that will end up with a lot of spited faces. 

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8 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

People moan because he’s got no personality or charisma, he makes a joke and then they moan that he’s not being serious enough. Almost like whatever he says they’re going to moan about him. 

Stop moaning about people. 

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57 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

A bit reminiscent of Trump and one of his Republican rivals (Marco Rubio?) trading jibes about cock size a few years ago.

 

There are more important things he should be challenging Johnson to do - the job of a Prime Minister, for one.

 

Ick.

 

Here's the rest of the interview, some of which is actually quite encouraging, if anybody wants to look a little bit deeper.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sugar Ape said:

People moan because he’s got no personality or charisma, he makes a joke and then they moan that he’s not being serious enough. Almost like whatever he says they’re going to moan about him. 

Is it the same people morning? Or different people moaning about different things.

 

Personally, I couldn't give a fuck about charisma: I just want someone to hold this disastrously negligent shower of corrupt cunts to account and to represent the Labour membership, rather than kow-towing to the conservative twats who pretend to be the definitive voice of "the Jewish community".

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34 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

No, really. Keep going. Don’t stop there. Write a book about it. Go on a book tour. Drag it out as long as you can. Good stuff. I do agree on one thing though, it could have been avoided. If only she had read the article and not retweeted it. 

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2 hours ago, Numero said:

No, really. Keep going. Don’t stop there. Write a book about it. Go on a book tour. Drag it out as long as you can. Good stuff. I do agree on one thing though, it could have been avoided. If only she had read the article and not retweeted it. 

I read it and nothing leapt out at me as especially controversial and certainly not anti-Semitic.  Then again, RLB has spent about 4 years or more in an atmosphere where anybody on the Left of the Labour Party who even mentions Israel is likely to be put in the ducking stool, so maybe she should have known that she wouldn’t be permitted to exercise free speech. 

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23 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

I read it and nothing leapt out at me as especially controversial and certainly not anti-Semitic.  Then again, RLB has spent about 4 years or more in an atmosphere where anybody on the Left of the Labour Party who even mentions Israel is likely to be put in the ducking stool, so maybe she should have known that she wouldn’t be permitted to exercise free speech. 

You didn’t see anything controversial about the link between Mossad and George Floyd’s murder? Fair enough, you’re not a politician who is expected to know better. Even then, she still hasn’t deleted it. Ah well, she’s gone. I just hope she shuts up about it now. 

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4 hours ago, cloggypop said:

That’s not a good look for Keir at all. She wasn’t even given the opportunity to apologise! Chilling.
 

I asked to issue a press statement and to discuss it with Keir, so we could sort this out. But when he did call me, he had made his decision.

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