Keir Starmer

[Strontium]

Yes, I think if you see the mainstream media as the enemy, that there is a degree of self-fulfilling prophecy there.

[Duff Man]

If I was the Labour leader, I would simply wow 'the media' with a wink and a smile and my nice haircut.

[Jairzinho]

38 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

If I was the Labour leader, I would simply wow 'the media' with a wink and a smile and my nice haircut. by not being a socialist.

Good plan.

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Numero said:

I think this part is down to how you see his job. I see part of a Leader’s job to mitigate some of these factors. That’s as true for a football manager or a business leader as it is a party leader. Getting the media onside and gaining support is a big chunk of what needs to be done. Look at the difference in how Klopp deals with the media - who love him - as opposed to Mourinho over the last few years. He went from darling to devil. Klopp has them eating out of his palm. Starmer needs to have the same impact. Corbyn was against the media from day one and it was against him. Obama too had them eating out of his hand, Clinton, Bernie... not so much. My point is, he absolutely got a rough ride, but I don’t absolve his leadership team of all responsibility on that front. Starmer will be judged on that same standard. 

 

It could help get the Tories out if Starmer can deal with media well enough so I'm not going to be against the idea of that. I think Corbyn was just unacceptable to many of them though due to what he wanted and the change he was hoping for so he never really had a chance with them from the off.

 

I sometimes wondered what it could've been like if he'd just attacked them and called out so much of their bullshit in a similar way to how Trump has done, and maybe Galloway would. Whether or not that'd work over here though and from the left instead of the right I have no idea. I suppose once you get to that stage though any chance of balance or fairness from some outlets after that point is pretty much gone for good so it clearly comes with risks.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Galloway has called them out his entire career. How’s it worked out? 

[Bjornebye]

12 minutes ago, Numero said:

Galloway has called them out his entire career. How’s it worked out? 

 

 

 

[Section_31]

Peak Galloway is appearing on Russia Today and accusing the BBC of bias.

[mattyq]

It seems she was sacked for refusing to delete her tweet and not for tweeting in the first place. Don't think Starmer had a choice and turned what was a potential nightmare into a plus.

Not quite sure what RLB was thinking in refusing to delete her tweet. Was she deliberately taking the piss or what? Looks like the premise of Israeli police training the US police to kneel on necks was a load of shite, all very weird.

Sad to see people go especially over something like this

[Bjornebye]

11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Peak Galloway is appearing on Russia Today and accusing the BBC of bias.

Russia Today is ace to be fair. 

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, mattyq said:

It seems she was sacked for refusing to delete her tweet and not for tweeting in the first place. Don't think Starmer had a choice and turned what was a potential nightmare into a plus.

Not quite sure what RLB was thinking in refusing to delete her tweet. Was she deliberately taking the piss or what? Looks like the premise of Israeli police training the US police to kneel on necks was a load of shite, all very weird.

Sad to see people go especially over something like this

Reckon we can wank over her now? 

[mattyq]

3 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Reckon we can wank over her now? 

Fucking hell, mate. Guess it beats fingering cats

I'd be more inclined to knock one out over the shadow Foreign Secretary

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Fucking hell, mate. Guess it beats fingering cats

I'd be more inclined to knock one out over the shadow Foreign Secretary

Christ 

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Numero said:

Galloway has called them out his entire career. How’s it worked out? 

 

Purrrfectly.

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Quite, RP. I think people are stuck in the old mentality of ‘take the fight to them’ and ‘give it some passion’ and ‘rip them apart’. That’s natural, because it’s an injustice. I’m not blaming anyone for feeling that way. It’s just not the way to defeat them. In fact, I think it makes it harder. 
 

The joke I normally reference in this conversation is told by Zizek that outlines a situation when a Mongol warrior stops a married couple walking along a dusty road, tells the husband he’s going to rape his wife but that the husband should hold his testicles so they don’t get dusty. After the rape, the warrior rides off and the husband jumps for joy because he didn’t hold his balls and they got dusty. The point, Zizek goes on to say is to compare today’s radicals to the husband, saying that the objective isn’t to dusty the balls of the powerful, it’s to cut them off. 

 

That sounds great to lefties, generally. It sounds great to me anyway; cutting off the proverbial balls of power... great. The problem is, it’s not a single warrior, it’s a complex system. We don’t need to cut off their balls - we can’t, they’re wise to it - we need to bring about a situation in which they think the only way to save themselves is castration and convince them we on the left are the only surgeons they can trust. 

[Mudface]

4 hours ago, mattyq said:

Fucking hell, mate. Guess it beats fingering cats

I'd be more inclined to knock one out over the shadow Foreign Secretary

 

I would have said slim pickings, but that's not really the right adjective. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just a glimpse of Jess Phillips is enough to get me annoyed. 

[Gooch]

Great move by Starmer getting shot of RLB, and if she wasn't so incompetent, you'd be giving her some credit for providing such an open goal. The typical out of touch bellends (Owen Jones, Novara media types etc) are all predictably outraged, which will only help him further. Good news all round really.

 

The whole Israel thing is a complete fringe issue for your regular voter, and for any average person really. Why the socialist's in the party seem so intent on dying on this hill is truly bizarre, and has really only ever shown how out of touch they are. Most people couldn't give a shit what's going on over there.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Gooch said:

Great move by Starmer getting shot of RLB, and if she wasn't so incompetent, you'd be giving her some credit for providing such an open goal. The typical out of touch bellends (Owen Jones, Novara media types etc) are all predictably outraged, which will only help him further. Good news all round really.

 

The whole Israel thing is a complete fringe issue for your regular voter, and for any average person really. Why the socialist's in the party seem so intent on dying on this hill is truly bizarre, and has really only ever shown how out of touch they are. Most people couldn't give a shit what's going on over there.

I guess you don't really get it. 

[Gooch]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

I guess you don't really get it. 

Evidently not, what am I missing exactly? What's so important about this issue that its worth alienating a good chunk of the public over, contributing to one of the worst election defeats in history.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Gooch said:

Evidently not, what am I missing exactly? What's so important about this issue that its worth alienating a good chunk of the public over, contributing to one of the worst election defeats in history.

Humanity. Decency. 

[Gooch]

 

8 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Humanity. 

Oh so a faux sense of moral superiority over others, whilst ignoring and/or demonising the people that don't have the luxury of focusing on such spurious issues. Hope it was worth it.

[Red Phoenix]

22 minutes ago, Gooch said:

Oh so a faux sense of moral superiority over others, whilst ignoring and/or demonising the people that don't have the luxury of focusing on such spurious issues. Hope it was worth it.

 

Yeah so let's just totally isolate ourselves, focus on day to day stuff within our country and fuck everyone else. Nobody should think any different because it's all about what your average voter thinks and we can become a big zombie herd that all thinks the same things. Oh and gaslight anyone who dares to care about others elsewhere in the world by going on about moral superiority.

 

Nope, fuck all that. Maybe it's fine for you and many others but some of us don't see it that way and it doesn't have to mean that we spend our time feeling morally superior about it either or feel any need to demonise others. And we don't have to be gaslighted on the subject just for focusing on it to whatever degree either, that just seems like real thought police territory and surely isn't helping anything.

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, Numero said:

Quite, RP. I think people are stuck in the old mentality of ‘take the fight to them’ and ‘give it some passion’ and ‘rip them apart’. That’s natural, because it’s an injustice. I’m not blaming anyone for feeling that way. It’s just not the way to defeat them. In fact, I think it makes it harder. 
 

The joke I normally reference in this conversation is told by Zizek that outlines a situation when a Mongol warrior stops a married couple walking along a dusty road, tells the husband he’s going to rape his wife but that the husband should hold his testicles so they don’t get dusty. After the rape, the warrior rides off and the husband jumps for joy because he didn’t hold his balls and they got dusty. The point, Zizek goes on to say is to compare today’s radicals to the husband, saying that the objective isn’t to dusty the balls of the powerful, it’s to cut them off. 

 

That sounds great to lefties, generally. It sounds great to me anyway; cutting off the proverbial balls of power... great. The problem is, it’s not a single warrior, it’s a complex system. We don’t need to cut off their balls - we can’t, they’re wise to it - we need to bring about a situation in which they think the only way to save themselves is castration and convince them we on the left are the only surgeons they can trust. 

 

I think both methods can work but I'm not going to pretend I have any idea of how things will work out, I honestly don't have a clue and think that after the last election our main issue is any form of democracy we have being seriously broken. Maybe Starmer can try and make that situation better if he can work within the system to whatever extent or someone else can, we're definitely in need of things changing though looking at the current shit going on.

[Numero Veinticinco]

What can Labour do about it if they’re out of power? Because, of course it’s right to taking Israel to task over their horrendous treatment of the Palestinians is the moral thing to do. But surely so is taking Saudi Arabia to task, surely so is taking Iran to task over their treatment of gays, and Russia, and the list goes on. That stuff gets far less coverage on the left. In fact, Israel is a special interest for those on the left. 
 

But all this shouldn’t be mixed up with what RLB did and why she was sacked. She wasn’t doing the moral and decent thing by retweeting factual inaccuracy, and she wasn’t doing the moral and decent thing by not following instruction on removing it. She was being politically naive and obstinate. 

 

If Labour aren’t in power, they can’t use their voice on the international stage. The UK has a tremendous amount of soft-power in the world. They can’t control what to do with that soft power if they’re not in government. If they don’t win back power, it’s a disservice to those outside of the country but also those inside the country. If they keep doing things that make them less electable, nothing will ever change.

 

6 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah so let's just totally isolate ourselves, focus on day to day stuff within our country and fuck everyone else. Nobody should think any different because it's all about what your average voter thinks and we can become a big zombie herd that all thinks the same things. Oh and gaslight anyone who dares to care about others elsewhere in the world by going on about moral superiority.

 

Nope, fuck all that. Maybe it's fine for you and many others but some of us don't see it that way and it doesn't have to mean that we spend our time feeling morally superior about it either or feel any need to demonise others. And we don't have to be gaslighted on the subject just for focusing on it to whatever degree either, that just seems like real thought police territory and surely isn't helping anything.

I think there’s some middle ground you’re missing out there, mate. It’s not a choice between focusing on what gets you into power and being a zombie herd. He’s right in what he is saying, a lot of the voters don’t care, they want to be represented in the representative democracy. With that in mind, is it wise to do what RLB did four or five years out from the election. What was it doing for anybody? What was it achieving? 
 

 

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, Numero said:

I think there’s some middle ground you’re missing out there, mate. It’s not a choice between focusing on what gets you into power and being a zombie herd. He’s right in what he is saying, a lot of the voters don’t care, they want to be represented in the representative democracy. With that in mind, is it wise to do what RLB did four or five years out from the election. What was it doing for anybody? What was it achieving?

 

I have no idea what RLB's intention was so I can't help with that. As for the other bit, I know a load of people don't care, any of us on here know that clearly I think. When I see in response to the word humanity stuff about moral superiority and ignoring/demonising people though I'm not and never will be agreeing with that, and I doubt many others would either. If we're fine with people not giving a fuck, maybe they should be fine with some of us being the opposite. I don't see why that's any type of controversial idea either.

 

And to be clear I'm not saying that the people Gooch is referring to don't exist, I'm not defending them either. Jumping to conclusions after simply seeing the word humanity seems way over the top though.