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The NHS


Dougie Do'ins
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Seattle coronavirus survivor gets a $1.1 million, 181-page hospital bill

 

Remember Michael Flor, the longest-hospitalized COVID-19 patient who, when he unexpectedly did not die, was jokingly dubbed “the miracle child?”

 

Now they can also call him the million-dollar baby.

 

Flor, 70, who came so close to death in the spring that a night-shift nurse held a phone to his ear while his wife and kids said their final goodbyes, is recovering nicely these days at his home in West Seattle. But he says his heart almost failed a second time when he got the bill from his health care odyssey the other day.

 

“I opened it and said ‘holy [bleep]!’ “ Flor says.

 

The total tab for his bout with the coronavirus: $1.1 million. $1,122,501.04, to be exact. All in one bill that’s more like a book because it runs to 181 pages.

 

The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute.

 

But for now it’s got him and his family and friends marveling at the extreme expense, and bizarre economics, of American health care.

 

Flor was in Swedish Medical Center in Issaquah with COVID-19 for 62 days, so he knew the bill would be a doozy. He was unconscious for much of his stay, but once near the beginning his wife Elisa Del Rosario remembers him waking up and saying: “You gotta get me out of here, we can’t afford this.”

 

Just the charge for his room in the intensive care unit was billed at $9,736 per day. Due to the contagious nature of the virus, the room was sealed and could only be entered by medical workers wearing plastic suits and headgear. For 42 days he was in this isolation chamber, for a total charged cost of $408,912.

 

He also was on a mechanical ventilator for 29 days, with the use of the machine billed at $2,835 per day, for a total of $82,215. About a quarter of the bill is drug costs.

 

The list of charges indirectly tells the story of Flor’s battle. For the two days when his heart, kidneys and lungs were all failing and he was nearest death, the bill runs for 20 pages and totals nearly $100,000 as doctors “were throwing everything at me they could think of,” Flor says.

 

In all, there are nearly 3,000 itemized charges, about 50 per day. Usually hospitals get paid only a portion of the amount they bill, as most have negotiated discounts with insurance companies. The charges don’t include the two weeks of recuperating he did in a rehab facility.

 

Going through it all, Flor said he was surprised at his own reaction. Which was guilt.

“I feel guilty about surviving,” he says. “There’s a sense of ‘why me?’ Why did I deserve all this? Looking at the incredible cost of it all definitely adds to that survivor’s guilt.”

 

There also are special financial rules that apply only to COVID-19. Congress set aside more than $100 billion to help hospitals and insurance companies defray the costs of the pandemic, in part to encourage people to seek testing and treatment (including those with no insurance). As a result, Flor probably won’t have to pay even his Medicare Advantage policy’s out-of-pocket charges, which could have amounted to $6,000.

 

The insurance industry has estimated treatment costs just for COVID-19 could top $500 billion, however, so Congress is being asked to step up with more money.

 

The writer David Lat got a $320,000 bill for his COVID-19 treatment, and also ended up paying nothing. Yet he heard from dozens of cancer and leukemia patients who have been hit with big bills or co-pays during this same time period.

 

It’s like we’re doing an experiment for what universal health coverage might be like, but confining it to only this one illness.

 

“Suffering from the novel coronavirus as opposed to cancer shouldn’t make a difference in terms of your financial burden,” Lat wrote, in Slate. “What you pay as a patient shouldn’t depend, in essence, on whether your disease has a good publicist.”

 

Flor said he’s hyper-aware that somebody is paying his million-dollar bill —  taxpayers, other insurance customers and so on. “Fears of socialism” have always stopped us from guaranteeing full health care for everyone, he said. But there’s also the gold-plated costs here, twice as expensive per capita as anywhere else in the world.

 

“It was a million bucks to save my life, and of course I’d say that’s money well-spent,” he says. “But I also know I might be the only one saying that.”

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/

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32 minutes ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

Seattle coronavirus survivor gets a $1.1 million, 181-page hospital bill

 

Remember Michael Flor, the longest-hospitalized COVID-19 patient who, when he unexpectedly did not die, was jokingly dubbed “the miracle child?”

 

Now they can also call him the million-dollar baby.

 

Flor, 70, who came so close to death in the spring that a night-shift nurse held a phone to his ear while his wife and kids said their final goodbyes, is recovering nicely these days at his home in West Seattle. But he says his heart almost failed a second time when he got the bill from his health care odyssey the other day.

 

“I opened it and said ‘holy [bleep]!’ “ Flor says.

 

The total tab for his bout with the coronavirus: $1.1 million. $1,122,501.04, to be exact. All in one bill that’s more like a book because it runs to 181 pages.

 

The bill is technically an explanation of charges, and because Flor has insurance including Medicare, he won’t have to pay the vast majority of it. In fact because he had COVID-19, and not a different disease, he might not have to pay anything — a quirk of this situation I’ll get to in a minute.

 

But for now it’s got him and his family and friends marveling at the extreme expense, and bizarre economics, of American health care.

 

Flor was in Swedish Medical Center in Issaquah with COVID-19 for 62 days, so he knew the bill would be a doozy. He was unconscious for much of his stay, but once near the beginning his wife Elisa Del Rosario remembers him waking up and saying: “You gotta get me out of here, we can’t afford this.”

 

Just the charge for his room in the intensive care unit was billed at $9,736 per day. Due to the contagious nature of the virus, the room was sealed and could only be entered by medical workers wearing plastic suits and headgear. For 42 days he was in this isolation chamber, for a total charged cost of $408,912.

 

He also was on a mechanical ventilator for 29 days, with the use of the machine billed at $2,835 per day, for a total of $82,215. About a quarter of the bill is drug costs.

 

The list of charges indirectly tells the story of Flor’s battle. For the two days when his heart, kidneys and lungs were all failing and he was nearest death, the bill runs for 20 pages and totals nearly $100,000 as doctors “were throwing everything at me they could think of,” Flor says.

 

In all, there are nearly 3,000 itemized charges, about 50 per day. Usually hospitals get paid only a portion of the amount they bill, as most have negotiated discounts with insurance companies. The charges don’t include the two weeks of recuperating he did in a rehab facility.

 

Going through it all, Flor said he was surprised at his own reaction. Which was guilt.

“I feel guilty about surviving,” he says. “There’s a sense of ‘why me?’ Why did I deserve all this? Looking at the incredible cost of it all definitely adds to that survivor’s guilt.”

 

There also are special financial rules that apply only to COVID-19. Congress set aside more than $100 billion to help hospitals and insurance companies defray the costs of the pandemic, in part to encourage people to seek testing and treatment (including those with no insurance). As a result, Flor probably won’t have to pay even his Medicare Advantage policy’s out-of-pocket charges, which could have amounted to $6,000.

 

The insurance industry has estimated treatment costs just for COVID-19 could top $500 billion, however, so Congress is being asked to step up with more money.

 

The writer David Lat got a $320,000 bill for his COVID-19 treatment, and also ended up paying nothing. Yet he heard from dozens of cancer and leukemia patients who have been hit with big bills or co-pays during this same time period.

 

It’s like we’re doing an experiment for what universal health coverage might be like, but confining it to only this one illness.

 

“Suffering from the novel coronavirus as opposed to cancer shouldn’t make a difference in terms of your financial burden,” Lat wrote, in Slate. “What you pay as a patient shouldn’t depend, in essence, on whether your disease has a good publicist.”

 

Flor said he’s hyper-aware that somebody is paying his million-dollar bill —  taxpayers, other insurance customers and so on. “Fears of socialism” have always stopped us from guaranteeing full health care for everyone, he said. But there’s also the gold-plated costs here, twice as expensive per capita as anywhere else in the world.

 

“It was a million bucks to save my life, and of course I’d say that’s money well-spent,” he says. “But I also know I might be the only one saying that.”

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/inspiring-story-of-seattle-mans-coronavirus-survival-comes-with-a-1-1-million-dollar-hospital-bill/

Makes you appreciate the NHS all the more! Also makes you appreciate how fucked up America is!

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12 hours ago, Dougie Do'ins said:

The insurance industry has estimated treatment costs just for COVID-19 could top $500 billion, however, so Congress is being asked to step up with more money.

Some more nationalisation of corporate debt in the offing?

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I've been hospitalised for the last week with a non-Covid issue. As I'm high risk I've been isolated in a room, everyone has to change PPE before and after coming in and the level of care, compassion and patience from every member of NHS staff is off the scales. 

 

Pay these people the wages they deserve and give them the working conditions that go with it. If this crisis doesn't teach us what our priorities are then we're fucking done for. 

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All for the NHS but their negligence ended my working life, I really didn't want to sue them because it didn't seem right but I decided to do so, I had 2 weeks to go before the cut off date, the Ombudsman said I should of done earlier and with a solicitor, at first they found no grounds for complaint but then after being contacted by my representative they admitted to negligence, I was awarded £2.500 in damages which was the equivalent of a months nett pay, no loss of earnings or loss of jobs that where coming up, this was 10 years ago so I had a bit more working years on me. Pretty shit all round and now I wished I had of sued them earlier and bollocks to my conscience. 

This is not a slur to the NHS workers, more to the management dept, though I'll always feel bitter about it. 

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On 14/06/2020 at 08:57, Karl_b said:

I've been hospitalised for the last week with a non-Covid issue. As I'm high risk I've been isolated in a room, everyone has to change PPE before and after coming in and the level of care, compassion and patience from every member of NHS staff is off the scales. 

 

Pay these people the wages they deserve and give them the working conditions that go with it. If this crisis doesn't teach us what our priorities are then we're fucking done for. 

Wishing you a quick recovery mate 

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Cheers. Very much on the mend, thanks. I've been neglecting the slow signs of my long-term health issue going downhill, overworking and downplaying the stress and impact of shielding under lockdown and it all got too much. Good job we have a, mostly, fantastic system that's still able to cope in these circumstances. 

 

Sorry to hear about your shitty experience, easy.

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It's easy to neglect problems you may have, I used to sweep them under the carpet as they say, but now I try to keep on top of issues even though I feel like nuisance sometimes. 

I have to say though apart from the bad experience the staff at the hospital where terrific as I was shitting myself before my Colonoscopy, a delayed one, and after the loss of some mates recently, 3 young women made feel reasonably comfortable in my embarrassment, then after it one whispered to me "No C*****" the relief. 

Keep on the mend. 

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4 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

This was always their main goal I think. 

You mean nobody lies in the public sector and it's not conspiracy theory? I'm shocked at you.

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Quote

The Queen has awarded the George Cross to the NHS as the health service marks its 73rd anniversary on Monday.

In a personal message, the Queen said NHS staff across the UK had worked "with courage, compassion and dedication" for more than 70 years.

NHS England chief executive Sir Simon Stevens said the award recognised the "skill and fortitude" of staff.

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are hosting a Buckingham Palace tea later to thank NHS workers.

The George Cross, instituted by King George VI in 1940 during the height of the Blitz in World War Two, is awarded for "acts of the greatest heroism or of the most courage in circumstances of extreme danger".

In her handwritten message, the Queen wrote: "It is with great pleasure, on behalf of a grateful nation, that I award the George Cross to the National Health Services of the United Kingdom.

"This award recognises all NHS staff, past and present, across all disciplines and all four nations.

"Collectively, over more than seven decades, they have supported the people of our country with courage, compassion and dedication, demonstrating the highest standards of public service.

"You have the enduring thanks and heartfelt appreciation of us all."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57714088

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On the news now they have a guy talking about whether we can afford the NHS. We can afford it, what we cant afford is a US system as much as these tory pricks drool at the thought of all that money they can rinse from people's misfortune. Weirdly the US system still costs more per person in spite of the fact you could lose your house and everything you own if you have a heart attack or walk 5 miles to a hospital with a broken leg because youre terrified of the cost of an ambulance. 

 

Any politician with eyes on defunding, selling off the NHS should strapped to a rocket and fired into a volcano.

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