Crime and Punishment

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Because it happened in a high money area? Seems a bit OTT.

The minimum for using a firearm is 30 years so I think it’s about right. Can’t see it being overturned on appeal. 

[Strontium]

I don't think he can complain because they know the rules of the game before they take part. However it is difficult to understand why one criminal killing another criminal gets a bigger tariff than most murders where a complete innocent is the victim.

[Rico1304]

54 minutes ago, Strontium said:

I don't think he can complain because they know the rules of the game before they take part. However it is difficult to understand why one criminal killing another criminal gets a bigger tariff than most murders where a complete innocent is the victim.

Is it because the victims status should never be a factor in the criminal justice system? 
 

Its a bit like earlier in this thread when you said that the guy who was injured whilst committing a stabbing should still receive medical attention. 

[Captain Willard]

1 hour ago, Strontium said:

I don't think he can complain because they know the rules of the game before they take part. However it is difficult to understand why one criminal killing another criminal gets a bigger tariff than most murders where a complete innocent is the victim.

I’ve posted this before but sentencing policy for murder in the UK is perverse, how you kill your victim is the main difference between a 15 and 30 year term. 
 

Public perception does obviously vary depending on the victim. One of the key reasons the horrific murder epidemic in London amongst  teenagers goes largely unnoticed is because of the perception that it’s mainly gangsters killing each other. A teenage kid dies about every 3 days but nobody gives a fuck. 

[Strontium]

50 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Is it because the victims status should never be a factor in the criminal justice system?

 

Well, that's sort of what I mean. It seems people are getting longer sentences for killing fellow gangsters than they are if they go out and kill some poor sod just minding their own business.

[Captain Willard]

3 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Well, that's sort of what I mean. It seems people are getting longer sentences for killing fellow gangsters than they are if they go out and kill some poor sod just minding their own business.

No they’d get the same sentance if they shot them but most people don’t have access to guns so get lower sentences because they kill their victims in other ways. That’s the perverse nature of sentencing. 

[Bjornebye]

He also got convicted for possession of a firearm. I think given his links to the Albanian drug underworld and the fact he cased the victims house in the lead up played a factor in the sentencing. This guy hasn't lost his temper with a rival and gunned him down in rage.... Good to see scum like this get heavy jail sentences. 

[Strontium]

Just now, Captain Willard said:

No they’d get the same sentence if they shot them but most people don’t have access to guns so get lower sentences because they kill their victims in other ways. That’s the perverse nature of sentencing. 

 

Yes, this is why it's preposterous. Gun murders are more often than not going to be gangland murders. The effect is to create a hierarchy of murder, where criminals killing criminals are invariably treated more harshly than criminals killing civilians. It seems so arbitrary. 

[Rico1304]

14 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Yes, this is why it's preposterous. Gun murders are more often than not going to be gangland murders. The effect is to create a hierarchy of murder, where criminals killing criminals are invariably treated more harshly than criminals killing civilians. It seems so arbitrary. 

No it isn’t.  If a gangland criminal wanted someone innocent shot the aggravating factors would be the same. Guns, murder for hire and reckless behaviour endangering others. 

[Strontium]

Just now, Rico1304 said:

No it isn’t.  If a gangland criminal wanted someone innocent shot the aggravating factors would be the same. Guns, murder for hire and reckless behaviour endangering others. 

 

Why would a gangster have someone innocent shot? It's not something that happens very often, is it. Usually the people being shot by gangsters are people who have accepted the possibility of being shot as an occupational hazard.

 

Look at it this way: 35 years is more than twice as long as what those animals who murdered that goth girl got.

[Rico1304]

2 hours ago, Strontium said:

 

Why would a gangster have someone innocent shot? It's not something that happens very often, is it. Usually the people being shot by gangsters are people who have accepted the possibility of being shot as an occupational hazard.

 

Look at it this way: 35 years is more than twice as long as what those animals who murdered that goth girl got.

Usually. 
 

I think you are arguing for mandatory sentences with no judicial input.   But you can’t be. 

[Captain Willard]

8 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Usually. 
 

I think you are arguing for mandatory sentences with no judicial input.   But you can’t be. 

The uk system is a hybrid with state imposed minimum sentences for murder but some judicial discretion either side plus an appeals process for undue lenience. 

[Strontium]

10 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Usually. 
 

I think you are arguing for mandatory sentences with no judicial input.   But you can’t be. 

 

I really don't think I am arguing for mandatory sentences. I'm saying the sentencing guidelines are wacko.

 

If jail sentences are at all about protecting the public from danger, well... I think random gangs of thugs attacking people randomly are more of a potential threat than professional hitmen whose reach is specific and limited.

[Rico1304]

24 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

I really don't think I am arguing for mandatory sentences. I'm saying the sentencing guidelines are wacko.

 

If jail sentences are at all about protecting the public from danger, well... I think random gangs of thugs attacking people randomly are more of a potential threat than professional hitmen whose reach is specific and limited.

They aren’t just about that though.  You’ve even argued that point yourself over the years I’m sure. 

[Leyton388]

On 18/02/2022 at 22:27, Captain Willard said:

22 year old hitman sentenced to 35 years minimum for a murder in london. Imagine that, 35 years living in a high security wing before you can even apply for parole. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/18/flamur-beqiri-hhitman-jailed-for-35-years

Lad i know got minimum 25 years a few months ago for something very similar although he didn't kill them. He's got to do atleast 16 years in a cat A before even being considered for a lower Cat prison. 

 

Going to be close to 70 before He's even considered for parole. 

 

 

[Captain Willard]

48 minutes ago, Leyton388 said:

Lad i know got minimum 25 years a few months ago for something very similar although he didn't kill them. He's got to do atleast 16 years in a cat A before even being considered for a lower Cat prison. 

 

Going to be close to 70 before He's even considered for parole. 

 

 

Jesus, that’s a tough sentence to do. Are you going to visit him ? 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

6 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Is it because the victims status should never be a factor in the criminal justice system? 
 

Its a bit like earlier in this thread when you said that the guy who was injured whilst committing a stabbing should still receive medical attention. 

I think this case in particular highlights that the status of the victim isn’t relevant and that it’s the conduct of the perpetrator and all of the aggravating factors that you’ve highlighted which will determine sentencing. 
 

https://news.sky.com/story/aya-hachem-seven-men-get-life-sentences-for-murdering-student-in-botched-drive-by-assassination-in-blackburn-12373183

[Leyton388]

1 hour ago, Captain Willard said:

Jesus, that’s a tough sentence to do. Are you going to visit him ? 

Am i fuck. Not a mate of mine just a lad i know through someone else. 

 

[Captain Willard]

In other news, the Saudis have beheaded 81 people today. Just in 1 day. Not widely reported. 
 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

On 27/01/2022 at 16:48, dockers_strike said:

Fucking hell, 7 years for this. Id have the bastard's swinging on the end of a rope.

 

The statement by her father is heartbreaking.

 

A man who left his teenage girlfriend unable to walk or talk after she fell out of a van at 60mph while being kidnapped has been jailed for just seven years. 

 

Angel Lynn, 19, was found lying seriously injured in the carriageway of the A6 near Loughborough, Leicestershire on September 17, 2020.

She suffered a fractured skull and brain injuries and requires round-the-clock care and is unlikely to ever make a full recovery.

 

Her boyfriend at the time Chay Bowskill, 20, and his friend Rocco Sansome, 20, both denied kidnapping but were found guilty following a trial on Tuesday. 

 

Jurors were shown CCTV of the moment Bowskill chased down the teenager when she walked off during an argument before he bundled her into a van.

 

Footage shows Bowskill grabbing her from behind in a bear hug and carrying her back across the road in the village of Mountsorrel.

 

Angel then fell out of the vehicle as it was travelling along at 60mph at around 10.45am before she was discovered by members of the public.

 

Paramedics attended the scene and Angel was taken to hospital but despite intensive medical intervention she remains in hospital with life-changing injuries.

 

 Both men were later arrested after detectives uncovered footage of Angel being forced into the van with Sansome driving it away.

Bowskill was also convicted of coercive and controlling behaviour and perverting the course of justice but was cleared of causing grievous bodily harm.

 

Prosecutors alleged Bowskill had thrown his partner out of the van but it could not be proved how Angel fell from the vehicle. On Wednesday he was jailed for seven-and-a-half years while Sansome, of Birstall, was sentenced to 21 months in prison at Leicester Crown Court.

 

Judge Timothy Spencer QC described Bowskill as "vile" and said if it wasn't for the kidnap Angel would not have suffered her "devastating injuries."

 

He told the defendant his treatment of his girlfriend was "degrading" and she was belittled to the point she must have "felt worthless".

 

Detective Chief Inspector Tony Yarwood, from the East Midlands Special Operations Unit Major Crime team, said: "Angel is a young woman who had plans and aspirations in place and the rest of her life to look forward to.

 

"Because of the extent of her injuries she now faces constant medical treatment and round the clock care.

 

"Her family remain devastated by what has happened and I praise the strength and bravery they have shown and continue to demonstrate to this day.

 

"No verdict or subsequent sentence can make up for the quality of life this young woman has lost. "I can only hope that in time her family can find some comfort knowing justice has been done."

 

In a heartbreaking statement issued after the case, Angel's dad, Paddy, said: "Our lives have been changed beyond recognition forever.

 

"Angel was so full of life and had such a great future ahead of her.

"That future has sadly been taken away from her. "The catastrophic injuries Angel suffered will mean life will never be the same for her or our family.

 

"Every day is not only a huge struggle for Angel but also a huge struggle for our family and friends.

 

"We are lucky in some ways as we are a close family, we have lots of lovely friends who help us and people that care in other ways.

"We try to remain strong but we know that every day will be difficult and a struggle for us all especially for Angel.

 

"I know that Angel will never get married now and I will never get to walk my daughter down the aisle.

 

"Nikki and I will never be grandparents to Angel's children. We don't know what the future holds for our daughter but we try to put smiles on our faces each day but inside our hearts are bleeding out.

"We'd like to thank all the officers involved in the investigation, our family liaison officers and our barrister, Mr Janes for their support throughout the last 16 months.

 

"They have all worked so hard and their dedication to Angel's case has been remarkable."

He got a relationship hefty sentence increase today. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/23/former-boyfriend-who-kidnapped-angel-lynn-has-sentence-increased

[VladimirIlyich]

On 12/03/2022 at 17:07, Captain Willard said:

In other news, the Saudis have beheaded 81 people today. Just in 1 day. Not widely reported. 
 

But they are the good guys remember?

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, VladimirIlyich said:

But they are the good guys remember?

 

 

[Captain Howdy]

8 hours ago, Nelly-Matip said:

He got a relationship hefty sentence increase today. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/23/former-boyfriend-who-kidnapped-angel-lynn-has-sentence-increased

Not really hefty is it ? He should never see the light of day again

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

14 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

Not really hefty is it ? He should never see the light of day again

My original post was meant to say relatively hefty instead of “relationship.” 
 

An increase from 7 and a half years to 12 is relatively hefty. A 60% sentencing increase. 
 

There’s a moral argument that he should never see the light of day. But, he’d never get a life sentence for his crimes, legally. 

[CapeRed]

17 hours ago, Captain Howdy said:

Not really hefty is it ? He should never see the light of day again

Report I read said his accomplice basically escaped additional time because he is coming to the end of his sentence wtf???