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Would You Want Retrospective Titles?

Would You Want Retrospective Titles?   

112 members have voted

  1. 1. Would You Want Retrospective Titles?

    • Yes. City are cheating cunts and don't deserve them. We do.
    • No. City are cheating cunts but I'd rather we won them on merit. Fuck them.


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It would be acceptable to me only if the titles were given in the off season. So that it doesn't really affect the players on the pitch.

 

The more obvious and correct answer is to look to the future and demote them or ban them as UEFA have.

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The right thing to do is take the titles/cups off them if they’re found to have been cheating.

The FA /Premier League won’t do anything until there’s an outcome, which is correct, but should UEFA issue a ban, even suspended, then there’ll have to be some retrospective punishment or the FA/Premier League would be accused of condoning City’s behaviour.

Whether those titles/cups are awarded to the runners up or City’s name just  expunged from the list of winners is a decision for the FA/Premier League to make.

Personally I’d want any decisions to be taken after we’ve won this years league and had the chance to celebrate it in an appropriate manner.

City must be glad they’ve not won the Champions League yet in case they’d lose that too.

After the initial hoohah over the charges, my feeling is there’s some kind of a deal been done for City to carry on playing with a rap over the knuckles and a very big (useless) fine.

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Voted no. If they want to strip them of the titles that's fine but to go on and claim that we were Champions would be a bit hollow for me. We didn't get to see Stevie lift the trophy in 13/14 or have any of the celebrations, etc. which is really what it's all about. It's one thing to say we would've won it had they not been allowed to skirt around the rules and that may well be true but we don't really know that even if a preponderance of evidence suggests it would be the case. Likewise for last season which has an even bigger case to be made. Those years are done and dusted.

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4 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

They didn't retrospectively award the win to the second place finisher in the Tour de France after stripping Armstrong.  So in that case you do want us to claim the trophies?

I chose a poor example, then. I know some athletes (whose names I can't remember) have been retrospectively awarded medals won by drug cheats, but there's no joy, pride or glory to that.

 

I've got no appetite for being belatedly given what we once might have won fairly (had the Premier League and FA done their jobs properly).

 

I'm with Skaro: forget what we could have won and focus on what we still can win.

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Yes.

They cheated, the only reason we and other teams did not win the league is because they cheated. 

 

I don't think anyone will be awarded retrospective titles though. The Premier/FA will do nothing due to City and virtually every other club being able to make a claim about something through legal channels. 

 

Finished fifth, I want champions League money

Lost a cup final, I want all the financial rewards

 

The league will be like the shithouse refs who will not give a decision because it is easier than giving one.

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Guest Pistonbroke
41 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

Yes.

They cheated, the only reason we and other teams did not win the league is because they cheated. 

 

I don't think anyone will be awarded retrospective titles though. The Premier/FA will do nothing due to City and virtually every other club being able to make a claim about something through legal channels. 

 

Finished fifth, I want champions League money

Lost a cup final, I want all the financial rewards

 

The league will be like the shithouse refs who will not give a decision because it is easier than giving one.

 

Yep, it'll be a points deduction if anything, which will mean fuck all unless it kicks in for next season. 

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I'm torn. Part of me thinks it's only the right thing to do, awarding second place the award. I felt this way even when it meant Utd and Mourinho would get more titles.

 

Yet, the scale of this all has made me think twice. When they just reallocate awards, it kind of papers over the gaping fissures caused by systematic cheating. Pretending it never happened.

 

Making a title null and void is the ultimate ignominy. I think any second place side deserves their accolades, but I'm equally inclined to have the history books show a blank space forever next to those years, to highlight the sheer shithousery. 

 

Aly Cissokho should get a medal either way.

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48 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

When Marseille lost their European Cup title,was the title just taken away and it declared a non competition or were Milan awarded it?

No, they were stripped of the French league title, relegated and banned from the European Cup- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_UEFA_Champions_League_Final. PSG refused to accept the league title- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992–93_French_Division_1

 

Marseille and their club president Bernard Tapie would later be found to have been involved in a match-fixing scandal during the 1992–93 season (in which Marseille allegedly paid Valenciennes to lose a match), which saw them relegated to Division 2 and banned from participation in European football for the following season. As the scandal affected only French league matches, Marseille's status as 1993 European champion was not affected.

 



A corruption scandal revolving around a match against Valenciennes emerged a few days before the Champions League final.[3] Allegations of match fixing were levelled at them and their president Bernard Tapie. It is believed that Tapie bribed Valenciennes to lose so that Olympique de Marseille would win the French League earlier, giving them more time to prepare for the Champions League Final.[4] Valenciennes players Christophe Robert, Jorge Burruchaga and Jacques Glassmann claimed that the Marseille midfielder Jean-Jacques Eydelie offered them ₣250,000 to "take the foot off of the gas" in a May 20 match against Marseille.[5] Marseille was later stripped of their league title and relegated to Division 2 by the French Football Federation, while Bernard Tapie was forced to step down as its president. Marseille was not stripped of the Champions League, as the match in question was not in the competition, but lost the right of title-defense in the 1993–94 UEFA Champions League,[6] as well as regular reigning European champions match in 1993 Intercontinental Cup and 1993 European Super Cup.

No winner was declared for the 1992–1993 season. The LFP allotted the title to Paris Saint-Germain but Canal + refused it. The TV chain feared the reactions of their subscribers in Provence and threatened to withdraw football completely if the title was allotted to PSG. Ultimately the LFP decided that the 1993 title would remain unattributed. Canal+ refused letting the club participate in the following season's Champions League after Marseille's exclusion by the UEFA.[7]

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The whole point of football is winning - be it a big game, or the best feeling of all, winning a trophy and seeing the skipper lift the trophy and celebrating the moment. (which is why I genuinely want "fans" who don't want to win the likes of the League Cup to die of Coronavirus)  Once the moment has passed, be that a day, a week, a month, or a year after the trophy lift, then that's it done.  Adding a league title 6 years after the event would mean nothing.  Take them off City, but just have "N/A" on the records beside that year.  

 

Gerrard is our key person in this.  The player we desperately wanted to win a title.  When he said a few days ago that he'd be "very interested" in what happens to Man City I just felt pity for him.  I thought the comments were pretty pathetic in fact. If he got a league winners medal that way I think it'd be even more ammunition to take the piss out of him from opposition fans.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyH said:

If he got a league winners medal that way I think it'd be even more ammunition to take the piss out of him from opposition fans.

I think so too.

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26 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

The whole point of football is winning - be it a big game, or the best feeling of all, winning a trophy and seeing the skipper lift the trophy and celebrating the moment. (which is why I genuinely want "fans" who don't want to win the likes of the League Cup to die of Coronavirus)  Once the moment has passed, be that a day, a week, a month, or a year after the trophy lift, then that's it done.  Adding a league title 6 years after the event would mean nothing.  Take them off City, but just have "N/A" on the records beside that year.  

 

Gerrard is our key person in this.  The player we desperately wanted to win a title.  When he said a few days ago that he'd be "very interested" in what happens to Man City I just felt pity for him.  I thought the comments were pretty pathetic in fact. If he got a league winners medal that way I think it'd be even more ammunition to take the piss out of him from opposition fans.

He lifted a champions league trophy so he doesn't need to worry about a Mickey Mouse premier league trophy. His status is confirmed as legendary at the club.

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27 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

He lifted a champions league trophy so he doesn't need to worry about a Mickey Mouse premier league trophy. His status is confirmed as legendary at the club.

I don't think that's ever in doubt.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyH said:

The whole point of football is winning - be it a big game, or the best feeling of all, winning a trophy and seeing the skipper lift the trophy and celebrating the moment. (which is why I genuinely want "fans" who don't want to win the likes of the League Cup to die of Coronavirus)  Once the moment has passed, be that a day, a week, a month, or a year after the trophy lift, then that's it done.  Adding a league title 6 years after the event would mean nothing.  Take them off City, but just have "N/A" on the records beside that year.  

 

Gerrard is our key person in this.  The player we desperately wanted to win a title.  When he said a few days ago that he'd be "very interested" in what happens to Man City I just felt pity for him.  I thought the comments were pretty pathetic in fact. If he got a league winners medal that way I think it'd be even more ammunition to take the piss out of him from opposition fans.

If he's won it, he's won it. He should just ignore speculation and wait until someone tells him that's the case, which is basically what he said he's doing. And I don't think he'd care what knobhead fans of other clubs would say.

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8 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

They didn't retrospectively award the win to the second place finisher in the Tour de France after stripping Armstrong.  So in that case you do want us to claim the trophies?

 

 

In some cases they had to drag the 6th or 7th place person out of retirement because the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc rider had also been banned. The rules for doping are different though, a doping violation in an individual event or comp = DQ. A DQ is effectively the same as never having competed, so it has to go down the results chain. 

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5 minutes ago, kemskem said:

If he's won it, he's won it. He should just ignore speculation and wait until someone tells him that's the case, which is basically what he said he's doing. And I don't think he'd care what knobhead fans of other clubs would say.

The trophy room in Steven Gerrards house with its pool table, and big tv, and lazy boy seats, and signed shirts has a big pair of glass doors into it.  This glass doors are frosted with the image of him lifting the Champions League trophy.  That feeling of lifting the trophy. The emotion of that day and the memories of that, and the trophy parade are what matters.  Many footballers don't even have a trophy room.  The medals just go in a drawer.  Imagine how shit it'd be if you've only technically finished 1st because the ones that did finish 1st have now been demoted 6 years later.  A medal arrives in the post.  No trophy lift.  No running around in front of the Kop with the League trophy.  No parade. Not even a handshake.  Worthless.

 

And Gerrard has said before that the "slippy G" stuff really rankles.  So I'd imagine it would get on his tits.

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27 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

 Imagine how shit it'd be if you've only technically finished 1st because the ones that did finish 1st have now been demoted 6 years later.  A medal arrives in the post.  No trophy lift.  No running around in front of the Kop with the League trophy.  No parade. Not even a handshake.  Worthless.

8oo

 

That's not really the point though, the celebrations, the glory etc is gone, everyone has long since accepted that fact and moved on as best they could. The medals and the recognition may mean little or nothing to supporters of our club or indeed many other clubs but what about the players that were the best set of players in the country that abided by the rules? They deserve the right to tell themselves, their friends, their grand kids that they were the best in 2014.

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54 minutes ago, JohnnyH said:

The trophy room in Steven Gerrards house with its pool table, and big tv, and lazy boy seats, and signed shirts has a big pair of glass doors into it.  This glass doors are frosted with the image of him lifting the Champions League trophy.  That feeling of lifting the trophy. The emotion of that day and the memories of that, and the trophy parade are what matters.  Many footballers don't even have a trophy room.  The medals just go in a drawer.  Imagine how shit it'd be if you've only technically finished 1st because the ones that did finish 1st have now been demoted 6 years later.  A medal arrives in the post.  No trophy lift.  No running around in front of the Kop with the League trophy.  No parade. Not even a handshake.  Worthless.

 

And Gerrard has said before that the "slippy G" stuff really rankles.  So I'd imagine it would get on his tits.


yeah but he airbrushed out josemi, just like the FA should airbrush out City.

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21 minutes ago, No2 said:

That's not really the point though, the celebrations, the glory etc is gone, everyone has long since accepted that fact and moved on as best they could. The medals and the recognition may mean little or nothing to supporters of our club or indeed many other clubs but what about the players that were the best set of players in the country that abided by the rules? They deserve the right to tell themselves, their friends, their grand kids that they were the best in 2014.

 

But they weren't. City were. And that'd always be the underlying feeling. They didn't fake match wins.  They won the games.  It's just that they spent more money on players then they should have. They were still the best. If they strip City then the title shouldn't be handed out to 2nd place.  It should just be marked as N/A  

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I wouldnt want any retrospective titles.

If they are found guilty then they should be stripped of the titles and a big asterisk placed next to the relevant year. So in years to come they will forever be associated with cheating.

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1 minute ago, BCM said:

I wouldnt want any retrospective titles.

If they are found guilty then they should be stripped of the titles and a big asterisk placed next to the relevant year. So in years to come they will forever be associated with cheating.

Why has Ronnie Barker got a Harvey Elliott/Samurai  'man bun' in your avatar?

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I don’t want the titles, myself. I’ll get no joy from them.

 

i actually cried after the final whistle of the last match in 2014 singing fields of Anfield road as a release of emotion, proud of what the team had done and having been so up and down emotionally for the months leading to it.

 

for me, I’d feel nothing being awarded the title for that year now.

 

Would the players and staff want it? If they do, then give them medals and add the title to our books, but I don’t need or want it myself.

 

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16 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Why has Ronnie Barker got a Harvey Elliott/Samurai  'man bun' in your avatar?

Ronnie would never go man bun....... 

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