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Enough is Enough, It's Time to Welcome Michael Owen Home - by Chris Smith

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2 minutes ago, aws said:

Can't agree with this Chris. I'm not going over the kangaroo court stuff again nor entering into a racism argument again but I do think it's culturally imperialistic for English speakers to set down rules for what or what isn't acceptable in other cultures and languages. Context is everything and surprisingly enough other cultures have different contexts. Suarez is a bit of a twat though. Not as big a twat as Evra mind. 

 

Other than than that I enjoyed the article and I agree it's time to bury hatchets and treat him with the respect shown to our other greats. He made his decisions and most of them were wrong but he's paid for that. 

 

I just wish he'd stop referring to the Mancs as "we". Football is tribal and while it is possible to have respect for other tribes you can only belong in one. 

 

Nice one, Andrew. Miss you dude.

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Loved him when he was here. One of our greatest goal scorers. 

 

Lied about his contract and ran it down. 

 

Joined that shower of cunts and to this day refers to them as "we"

 

That brochure. Jesus. 

 

No need for anyone to abuse him but fuck him. He had his glory days with us and I'll always cherish his goals but he's done nothing to endear himself to us since. We owe him nothing. 

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36 minutes ago, aws said:

Can't agree with this Chris. I'm not going over the kangaroo court stuff again nor entering into a racism argument again but I do think it's culturally imperialistic for English speakers to set down rules for what or what isn't acceptable in other cultures and languages. Context is everything and surprisingly enough other cultures have different contexts. Suarez is a bit of a twat though. Not as big a twat as Evra mind. 

 

Other than than that I enjoyed the article and I agree it's time to bury hatchets and treat him with the respect shown to our other greats. He made his decisions and most of them were wrong but he's paid for that. 

 

I just wish he'd stop referring to the Mancs as "we". Football is tribal and while it is possible to have respect for other tribes you can only belong in one. 

Thanks for a good answer. This thread is about Owen. No need to turn it into a futile new Suarez/racism debate. Those of us who acutally read the stuff coming from FA back then, we all pretty much know the truth behind that story.

 

Owen then? He looked after himself and his own career. That's fair enough isn't it? It's football. I don't bear a grudge, neither do I love him. I thank him for the memories and what he did for us while he was here. No need for a hate campaign.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

I liked winning the CL in 2005. 

You just know Owen was gutted that night. He would have celebrated but inside he would have wanted us to lose I think. Not because he doesn’t ‘support’ us but because it is always about ‘brand Owen’ 

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6 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

You just know Owen was gutted that night. He would have celebrated but inside he would have wanted us to lose I think. Not because he doesn’t ‘support’ us but because it is always about ‘brand Owen’ 

I care about Owen as much as I care about Suarez and McManaman.

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Brilliant interview from Carra, that. Probably one of the best hours I've spent listening to a podcast. 

 

I thought Owen came off quite genuine in terms of being regretful of how things turned out with Liverpool, but there's still some issues that were slightly glossed over, which is understandable given this could easily have become a 3 hour pod otherwise.

 

For instance, Carra let him off the hook a bit with Owen running his contract down at Liverpool. He pressed him a little bit when Owen placed the blame on his agent being on a long-term sabbatical as the reason why the contract never got signed. But I just don't buy Owen's version of events on this. I think he wanted to position himself so that, if a Madrid or whoever came sniffing around, that he'd available below market value in order to sweeten the deal and get his move. 

 

I don't have any problem with him leaving. At the time, the club had dropped away a little bit and were facing another rebuilding job under a new manager. My issue is that the club got completely fucked on this. In 2004 he was probably worth 25 million given what the likes of Cisse, Drogba and Rooney were moving for at the same time. Whether Madrid would have wanted him at that price is doubtful given they had Ronaldo, Raul and Morientes already, and I think Owen and his agent knew that he'd only get his move if he was under his true market value, which he was given he only had 12 months left on his deal. 

 

In fairness Parry and Moores were also thick enough to let him and his agent fuck about for 18 months. They deserve a lot of the blame for what happened. Fast forward to today, can you imagine John Henry or Mike Gordon being taken advantage of like Parry and Moores were? Players only leave Liverpool now on our terms or if we don't really give a fuck such as Can, Moreno and Sturridge. 

 

All this being said, I would have loved to have resigned him in 2005 and even in 2009 given he was free and happy to play a sub's role. I can't get my head around why Rafa didn't resign him given we didn't have great options off the bench in that period. 

 

One more thing; on the pod Owen made out like he had to make his choice between United, Everton or Hull. Given the enormity of what he was about to do to his legacy at Liverpool, I'm surprised he didn't want to take his time and think about things, maybe reach out to some other clubs again, prior to signing for United. He has quotes from 2009 whereby he states that he signed immediately basically without even blinking:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/03/michael-owen-manchester-united-transfer

 

I believe him when he says that Liverpool is his club, but I just cannot for the life of me imagine Gerrard, Fowler, Carra etc behaving the same if faced with the same situation. 

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I listened to the podcast the other night and couldn’t help feel for him, but the whole way through I also thought “you made your choices” as he said himself.

 

i sang “where were you in Istanbul” as loudly as anyone on the kop that day, and seeing him in a united shirt made me sad, but I didn’t hate him for it. I felt no emotion towards him by then.

 

i feel for the lad because his career dwindled away from an early age.

 

but I don’t buy his “I only ever wanted to do a Rushie” line. I think that’s bollocks.

 

if he’d forced his way into that team and had success there I doubt he’d have ever looked back.

 

it didn’t work out for him, so I feel for him when he says his family was unhappy - cause who doesn’t want their family to be happy - but it’s only because it didn’t work that he wanted to come back.

 

after that, he didn’t get to come back here and he couldn’t do anything about it. I don’t doubt he wishes he could’ve, but that’s on him. Not me. Not us.

 

he got a choice of hull, Everton or the mancs and so chose the best option for him. Fine. That’s on him. Not me. Not us.

 

he isn’t loved by us. Well so be it. 
 

he could’ve been, if he’d stayed. He didn’t. 
 

I’ll never boo him. I’ll never give him abuse. If he was stood in front of me now I might shake his hand. But I’ll never really give a fuck about him because he chose to leave and that’s on him.
 

Not me.

 

Not us.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

but I don’t buy his “I only ever wanted to do a Rushie” line. I think that’s bollocks.

 

if he’d forced his way into that team and had success there I doubt he’d have ever looked back.

 

100% agree. That's embarrassing revisionism from Owen, that. 

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1 hour ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

I care about Owen as much as I care about Suarez and McManaman.

Macca left and won 2 European Cups, scoring in a final. You can't blame him for wanting to capitalise on his talent at a time when our club was all over the place. His commentary can grate but I don't get the ill feeling towards McManaman at all. 

 

Suarez was a cunt but he was our cunt. The Arsenal stuff pissed me off but what allegiance did he have to us? Plus he was working under a twat of a manager and probably had a complete twat of an agent in his ear. 

 

Owen knew full fucking well what he was doing going to Man Utd and referring to them as "we".... fuck off and wank your horses off. Thanks for the memories in Red but thats all they are now. 

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Regarding the 'wanted to do a Rushy' I don't think he's lying but equally he's not being entirely truthful either.

 

I have no doubt he had it in his head that if it didn't work out he'd just come back the way Rushy did (he even said this to Parry when he left) but I don't think he went there expecting to fail and come back after a year. 

 

We were a fallback option, not part of a calculated plan.

 

Unfortunately for him circumstances would keep conspiring against him every time he tried to get back here.

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28 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Macca left and won 2 European Cups, scoring in a final. You can't blame him for wanting to capitalise on his talent at a time when our club was all over the place. His commentary can grate but I don't get the ill feeling towards McManaman at all. 

 

Suarez was a cunt but he was our cunt. The Arsenal stuff pissed me off but what allegiance did he have to us? Plus he was working under a twat of a manager and probably had a complete twat of an agent in his ear. 

 

Owen knew full fucking well what he was doing going to Man Utd and referring to them as "we".... fuck off and wank your horses off. Thanks for the memories in Red but thats all they are now. 

I knew McManaman, I never liked McManaman. He was worth £12m when he left, a big sum then, we got nowt.

 

Suarez can fuck off because of Barcelona last year the snivelling shithouse, we were his ex club, he could have shown some restraint, our cunt or not.

 

Owen got his by missing out on the CL. Then the Manc thing finished him for me. And a few others.

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21 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

I knew McManaman, I never liked McManaman. He was worth £12m when he left, a big sum then, we got nowt.

 

Suarez can fuck off because of Barcelona last year the snivelling shithouse, we were his ex club, he could have shown some restraint, our cunt or not.

 

Owen got his by missing out on the CL. Then the Manc thing finished him for me. And a few others.

 

As far as I can remember with McManaman, it was us who tried shopping him to Barcelona the previous year. That's when he got the fuck'ems. I'm no lover of him these days, but let's at least get the facts straight. 

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1 minute ago, Chris said:

 

As far as I can remember with McManaman, it was us who tried shopping him to Barcelona the previous year. That's when he got the fuck'ems. I'm no lover of him these days, but let's at least get the facts straight. 

We tried to sell him because he was running his contract down, and he did. Fact.

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6 hours ago, Chris said:

 

Nah, it's time people for their heads out of the sand on that front. He did it. He was found guilty of doing it. Evra didn't handle it greatly, but as a society we've kinda moved past people telling minorities who feel they've been abused that the particular word, or the expression "my little black friend" isn't racist or wasn't meant in a certain context. 

 

How some people can continue to support him is beyond me. 

Does Dave U agree with you because he has spent so much time and has written so many articles stating the opposite ?

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Just now, Arnaud said:

Does Dave U agree with you because he has spent so much time and has written so many articles stating the opposite ?

 

Nah, Dave and I diverge massively on this. 

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I was just thinking something along the same lines as Dave: He probably hoped his time at Real Madrid would have gone on longer but wanted the door to remain open at Liverpool.

 

I genuinely think he would never have gone to Man Utd if his relationship with our fans wasn't so bad but he fucked up there - he should have been thinking long term. He just grew further and further away from the fans but when I listen to him now on panels, etc, he doesn't sound like a single minded footballer anymore but a genuine fan, like any of us.

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4 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

Nah, Dave and I diverge massively on this. 

Evra is French, a French cunt. How do you say pléonasme in Scouser ? 

 

Back to the issue, Owen sounds too artificial. 

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"Wanting to do a Rushy" ???

 

Rushy reluctantly left for a world record fee, Owen deliberately ran his deal down and his fee down before fucking sprinting to Madrid.

 

That traitor isn't worthy of being spoken of in the same breath as The Great Ian Rush.

 

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1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

Macca left and won 2 European Cups, scoring in a final. You can't blame him for wanting to capitalise on his talent at a time when our club was all over the place. His commentary can grate but I don't get the ill feeling towards McManaman at all. 

This, plus McManaman utterly threw himself into life at Madrid.

He was one their stars before they went into Galactico mode; when the club changed he reinvented himself; when he didn’t make the World Cup squad in 2002 you had some of the world’s best players making incredulous statements about it to the media; when he started getting squeezed out of the side he buckled down and fought for his place rather than immediately quit.

Above all, McManaman left Anfield for something new and completely embraced that something new. Fair do’s, it’s just a shame that we didn’t get the cash we might have wanted for him - although Fowler’s (first) autobiography makes the case that the club messed him about - I don’t think that Owen was ever in any doubt that the club wanted him to stay and they spent a lot of time and effort trying to make that happen. 

I can’t hate Owen for failing to embrace or succeed in Spain, but there’s a large chunk of schadenfreude after he thought he was bigger than Liverpool only to find that leaving was the beginning of the end of his career. 

 

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6 hours ago, Chris said:

 

Nice one, Andrew. Miss you dude.

Traitor. You chose to fuckoff to bigger and better things. You left us high and dry. It's all about brand Chris Smith. 

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56 minutes ago, rb14 said:

Traitor. You chose to fuckoff to bigger and better things. You left us high and dry. It's all about brand Chris Smith. 

 

Dave was cold to me. If I'd had some Rog' warmth it might have been a different story. Ergo, I blame you.

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