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Enough is Enough, It's Time to Welcome Michael Owen Home - by Chris Smith


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Michael should have been a Liverpool legend. That he's not regarded in such esteem is largely down to his own decisions. I don't begrudge him for wanting to leave. I do begrudge him for not being honest about it, promising to stay all the while running down his contract and leaving for peanuts. Still, I wanted him back when he wanted to leave Real. I do begrudge him for not returning to Liverpool and going to fucking Newcastle. He could have come back if he wanted to. As far as I'm concerned, he went to Newcastle for the money. We were never going to match the wages they were offering. And of course then he goes to Man United. He burnt more than a few bridges throughout his career. 

I loved Michael at Liverpool, I truly did and I do feel a bit sad that he's not got the reputation with the fans that his performances deserve. He gave us some amazing memories but he tarnished his own legacy with us and I wouldn't blame any Liverpool fan for not warming to him.

 

As for Suarez and Torres - I care for those two even less to be honest. 

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11 hours ago, Chris said:

 

Nah, it's time people for their heads out of the sand on that front. He did it. He was found guilty of doing it. Evra didn't handle it greatly, but as a society we've kinda moved past people telling minorities who feel they've been abused that the particular word, or the expression "my little black friend" isn't racist or wasn't meant in a certain context. 

 

How some people can continue to support him is beyond me. 

Jesus

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6 hours ago, Crazy Dave said:

100% agree. That's embarrassing revisionism from Owen, that. 

If Rush was happier and more successful in Turin he wouldn't have done "a Rushie" either to be fair.

Different times but he didnt run down his contract though and we were able to replace him with Barnes Beardsley and Aldo rather than Morientes (6 months later) and Nunez. 

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I don’t get this the club we’re idiots letting him run his contract down to a year.  You can’t force a player to sign a contract and you also can’t force them to leave the club and sign a contract elsewhere.  If a player wants to run down his contract no matter what then the club has no say in the matter.  The only tactics the club could use is to try and do what Real are doing with Bale and freeze the player out.  Can you imagine the club freezing Owen out half way through a season where he has got 2 and a half years left on his contract to try to force him to sign or move with 2 years to go?  It honestly baffles me that people never think this shit through and just parrot out the same shite every time.

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The thing that was the weirdest in the interview was when he was adamant he was as big a red as Carragher. This is someone who signed for Man United and he's saying that. And on top of that, he tried to say Carragher could have done the same if he had been in that situation. Surprised people think he came across well. Not that I care, I was too young to watch football in his era, but that was weird. 

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8 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

The thing that was the weirdest in the interview was when he was adamant he was as big a red as Carragher. This is someone who signed for Man United and he's saying that. And on top of that, he tried to say Carragher could have done the same if he had been in that situation. Surprised people think he came across well. Not that I care, I was too young to watch football in his era, but that was weird. 

Apply Owen's situation to your own life. Would you turn down a job on more money, with better prospects in the right area of the country where your family would be happy for a crappy one, just because that company had a rivalry with one you used to work for? We might not like it and we might expect every single footballer to think with their hearts but that's completely unrealistic. 

 

I don't hate Owen. He left in poor circumstances and he made poor choices subsequently but he seems genuinely remorseful and was responsible for some of my best memories of supporting the club.

 

I also echo the point about his punditry, he seems like an intelligent fella with good insight and he should show it more.

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8 hours ago, Chris said:

So you’re still believing steadfastly in that old “it totally means something really friendly and polite in Spanish and wasn’t a racist insult at all” line all these years later, huh? 

 

Bless. 

No,we simply don't believe the 'evidence' presented and by whom it was presented. Suarez is a cunt,no doubt,but that whole situation was a farce.

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36 minutes ago, Karl_b said:

Apply Owen's situation to your own life. Would you turn down a job on more money, with better prospects in the right area of the country where your family would be happy for a crappy one, just because that company had a rivalry with one you used to work for? We might not like it and we might expect every single footballer to think with their hearts but that's completely unrealistic. 

 

I don't hate Owen. He left in poor circumstances and he made poor choices subsequently but he seems genuinely remorseful and was responsible for some of my best memories of supporting the club.

 

I also echo the point about his punditry, he seems like an intelligent fella with good insight and he should show it more.

Why does he need to apply it to his own life?  Owen was a multi millionaire and made a decision to join a football club who’s fans sing about the deaths of “his” teams fans along with all the other shite they get up to every week.  This is not like working for Tesco and then leaving to work for Sainsbury’s and shouldn’t be treated as such.  I can’t believe people come out with this shite.  This is not some mercenary or foreign player who doesn’t understand this.  He literally grew up at the club and witnessed it himself.  He can go there if he wants but don’t expect people to treat you like Gerrard, Carra or God.

 

He’s not remorseful about going there either.  He’s remorseful about fucking up his legend status by going to Real Madrid and failing whilst we won the European Cup on the greatest night in the clubs history.

 

After making all these decisions which he was completely entitled to make he now wants everyone to love him as well because he wants back in to the boys club at Anfield.  Well he can fuck off.  

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23 hours ago, Chris said:

 

Nah, it's time people for their heads out of the sand on that front. He did it. He was found guilty of doing it. Evra didn't handle it greatly, but as a society we've kinda moved past people telling minorities who feel they've been abused that the particular word, or the expression "my little black friend" isn't racist or wasn't meant in a certain context. 

 

How some people can continue to support him is beyond me. 

As a society we've moved past considering context? Agreed.

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35 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

Quite a cunt you.


Ah. One thing that never changes about this place. There’s always someone willing to use the strongest word in the English language towards someone they’ve never met because they disagree about football. If you’re not fond of the response, maybe don’t make ridiculous generalisations like “all Spanish speakers” to make your point. 
 

A good day to you, sir. 

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13 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

As a society we've moved past considering context? Agreed.


All these years on, the mental gymnastics being performed to defend Suarez are incredible 
 

It’s very simple. 
 

Spanish speaking man playing football in England uses term considered racially offensive to insult black Frenchman. Black Frenchman found it offensive. English authorities agreed. 
 

That’s the context, outside of this weird little cult still having none of it because it’s us, it’s Man United and Ferguson and there was some kind of FA / media conspiracy to halt the rise of Liverpool. It’s absolutely batshit. 

Even if, best case scenario, his argument can be believed, that “little black friend” is some sort of term of endearment, and sweet little Luis’ only crime was cultural ignorance, then he was still in the wrong. 
 

There are innumerable things you cannot do/say in other countries due to local context, culture and sensitivities. You get caught, you get punished. Ignorance is not a valid excuse. That’s your best case scenario.
 

But it’s also extremely unlikely.
 

He’s always been a horrible, nasty little shit. His form before and since does nothing to inspire confidence in his innocence. 


 

 

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11 minutes ago, Chris said:

It’s very simple. 

No. No it isn't. 

 

I'm not taking this stance because of any desire to defend Suarez. I have a South American mother, and I live in Spain. How people talk about race is different in every country. That's context. Social context, historical context, linguistic context. To pretend it isn't relevant or important is ridiculous.

 

Quote

There are innumerable things you cannot do/say in other countries due to local context, culture and sensitivities. 

Yes, and millions upon millions of people, understandably, frequently make errors in this regard.

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7 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

No. No it isn't. 

 

I'm not taking this stance because of any desire to defend Suarez. I have a South American mother, and I live in Spain. How people talk about race is different in every country. That's context. Social context, historical context, linguistic context. To pretend it isn't relevant or important is ridiculous.

 


So, would your South American mother come to England and start referring to black people as negrito? To their faces? During an argument? Serious question.

 

Edit: There’s a lot of social, historical and linguistic context surrounding race. Not all of it pleasant. There are some people in certain southern states in the US who’d tell you it’s their culture and heritage too. Might even wave a flag professing it. 
 

 

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23 minutes ago, Chris said:


So, would your South American mother come to England and start referring to black people as negrito? To their faces? During an argument? Serious question. 

She lives in the UK now, has done for 45 years. But in the first year or two, when she was relatively young, yes, possibly. She wouldn't have known why it wouldn't be appropriate. It would have been no different to her referring to the colour of someone's hair. 

 

It's worth noting that, and this obviously is only generally speaking, South Americans, and people from Spain, and probably most of Southern Europe, are considerably more direct when speaking. My point is that it isn't just colour of skin that isn't deemed taboo/rude/much worse to refer to. It's obviously considerably less serious, but nevertheless deemed quite rude in the UK and other parts of Northern Europe, to refer to someone's weight. Yet, calling someone fat, or skinny, is perfectly normal in South American or Spain. In fact, these are often nicknames. People will refer to their partner as gordo/gordito. 

 

A friend of my girlfriend's is actually known as Negro. Simply because he's a very dark skinned caucasian.

 

For me, Suarez was guilty of ignorance. Something that a not inconsiderable number of Brits abroad could be accused of. In the "heat of battle" the chances of this ignorance being displayed almost certainly increases. I wouldn't have had a problem with him being punished. Raising awareness of what is and isn't acceptable culturally here, whilst taking into account what is and isn't acceptable in his own culture, would have been a good thing. But seeing the fucking Daily Mail and that rag, two consistently, institutionally, hatefully, racist publications labelling him a racist was absurd and disgraceful.

 

For me, racism is about power. It's for this reason that I find a panel of white, British, middle aged, rich men, that have almost certainly benefited historically from slavery, determining whether or not a young Uruguayan footballer said something racist, quite galling.

 

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23 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

She lives in the UK now, has done for 45 years. But in the first year or two, when she was relatively young, yes, possibly. She wouldn't have known why it wouldn't be appropriate. It would have been no different to her referring to the colour of someone's hair. 

 

It's worth noting that, and this obviously is only generally speaking, South Americans, and people from Spain, and probably most of Southern Europe, are considerably more direct when speaking. My point is that it isn't just colour of skin that isn't deemed taboo/rude/much worse to refer to. It's obviously considerably less serious, but nevertheless deemed quite rude in the UK and other parts of Northern Europe, to refer to someone's weight. Yet, calling someone fat, or skinny, is perfectly normal in South American or Spain. In fact, these are often nicknames. People will refer to their partner as gordo/gordito. 

 

A friend of my girlfriend's is actually known as Negro. Simply because he's a very dark skinned caucasian.

 

For me, Suarez was guilty of ignorance. Something that a not inconsiderable number of Brits abroad could be accused of. In the "heat of battle" the chances of this ignorance being displayed almost certainly increases. I wouldn't have had a problem with him being punished. Raising awareness of what is and isn't acceptable culturally here, whilst taking into account what is and isn't acceptable in his own culture, would have been a good thing. But seeing the fucking Daily Mail and that rag, two consistently, institutionally, hatefully, racist publications labelling him a racist was absurd and disgraceful.

 

For me, racism is about power. It's for this reason that I find a panel of white, British, middle aged, rich men, that have almost certainly benefited historically from slavery, determining whether or not a young Uruguayan footballer said something racist, quite galling.

 

 

You make your points really well and convincingly. I guess what it comes down to is whether you believe his only crime is ignorance. I struggle with that given his career-long habit of using every possible despicable means of gaining an advantage on an opponent and have that as my frame of reference. Not a part of me thinks he's above that kind of malice. 

 

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I'm a sentimental mug and would be no good making decisions about former players. I still have love for Owen, Torres, Suarez and Coutinho and wanted them back. For some reason I've almost forgotten Mascherano played for us, all I really remember is the song.

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34 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

You make your points really well and convincingly. I guess what it comes down to is whether you believe his only crime is ignorance. I struggle with that given his career-long habit of using every possible despicable means of gaining an advantage on an opponent and have that as my frame of reference. Not a part of me thinks he's above that kind of malice. 

 

If you want to judge the Evra/Sarez incident and take as evidence  "..his career-long habit of using ....etc " I guess that's up to you.

 

You could, if you wanted to, read the FA verdict, although it's proably pointless as you've already made upp ypur mind.

 

There are several posteres on here who actually did read the kangaroo stuff from FA. To us you look mostly like a prejudiced tit. A pity as you views regarding Owen are sound.

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1 minute ago, JustTosh said:

If you want to judge the Evra/Sarez incident and take as evidence  "..his career-long habit of using ....etc " I guess that's up to you.

 

You could, if you wanted to, read the FA verdict, although it's proably pointless as you've already made upp ypur mind.

 

There are several posteres on here who actually did read the kangaroo stuff from FA. To us you look mostly like a prejudiced tit. A pity as you views regarding Owen are sound.

 

Did read it. Backed him to the hilt at the time. Have realised I was wrong to since.

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