Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

[Barrington Womble]

10 minutes ago, an tha said:

It's a difficult argument because they can of course point very simply to winning the european cup and ending the 30 year wait to be league champions over last 2 seasons...and that isn't me defending them as i think that Klopp has got what he has to overachieve and no other manager could have won what he has with this squad.

 

What happens now is the acid test....i'd be stunned if Klopp can get a 3rd incredible season on spin out of them, even the cheats with all they have and a deep, deep squad found maintaining this level for a 3rd straight season last season a bridge too far....and of course our rivals are stregthening as they strive to catch us.

Indeed it's a difficult argument and we're in agreement klopp is a key feature. But as I posted earlier today, so feel like I'm repeating myself, but klopp was brilliant at Dortmund. They had their model. He didn't complain about it, in fact was on board with it and it worked well for a period till it didn't. But to continually attempt to be less competitive than your rivals eventually catches up with you despite an amazing manager like klopp. We've a rare talent at our club, we should indulge him. And he seems to me to be a safe financial pair of hands as he doesn't seem to sanction many transfers that don't work. Why would you not trust him unless you weren't arsed about the outcome and the only thing that mattered was the expenditure? 

7 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

TBF they were one of the best dozen sides in the world then and were looked upon as a well run club. 

So here's a big thing. Being 3rd or 4th every year and not winning is pointless to me. It's basically being Everton with a failed European run. The aim should always be 1st. We're lucky right now we've a manager who can turn a 4th place standard team into wonderful champions. But he's not a magician despite the illusion he creates. What we should be doing at this point in time is finding a way to let him have the players he thinks he needs, he's earned that. As has been pointed out loads of times, if we can't afford to back the manager after the income cycle of the last 3 year, we're absolutely fucked if we have an off year. 

 

 

[Pidge]

Abramovich has recognised he has a chance to emulate the City model and bring together a squad that can heavily rotate and still compete. He's rolling the dice, it could work, but he'll want it to work this year (hence the Silva deal). I expect at the first shaky signs Frank is let go and Allegri comes in. 

[Barrington Womble]

19 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

You can see what they're doing. Roman is spending his own cash again because he's anticipated that others wont because of Covid and they're getting a free run at players. It's smart in their case because they can do it. The issue is with Lampard, not Chelsea. In the short term, I just question how he'll put the team together, he'll actually have a headache. I doubt he'll live up to expectations, but yeah they'll just get rid of him if he can't. 

So firstly, yes if fat Frank is shit, they'll get someone who isn't. So let's not get hung up on that. The players always outlast the manager at Chelsea and it seems to me they've bought good attacking players and picked up some others in weak positions. 

 

And I'm not so sure it's all about Roman throwing money in. They've sold significantly over the last few years and they're buying significantly. They turnover about 450m per year and have a wage bill of around 250m. So they have 200m per year slushing round to do other stuff, like run the stadium, training ground, kids and transfers. It doesn't seem an incredible reach they could afford.to buy players, most clubs can and they're wealthier than most clubs now even without Romans rubbles. Only fsg brainwashing makes people think there's no money for investment in players. 

[an tha]

I read the other day our matchday revenue was £84m in the season before last.

 

Matchday revenue (2018/19)

Liverpool saw matchday revenue rise from £81m to £84m (4%) as the club benefitted slightly from a rise in pre-season revenue as they look for new ways to boost matchday revenue. Liverpool are operating at close to full capacity and hence matchday revenue is close to its maximum with the only potential growth areas being in hospitality or matchday spending....

So how many games was that.. 19 league, 6 europe, 2 in cups...lets call it 27....

3m a match roughly then.

 

So what did we lose in matchday revenue last season due to covid?.....25m say?

 

And there is the anticipation of that 3m a game for the forseeable future - maybe it is a bit less but it is around that.

 

What else have we lost? TV money, sponsors etc?

[3 Stacks]

19 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So firstly, yes if fat Frank is shit, they'll get someone who isn't. So let's not get hung up on that. The players always outlast the manager at Chelsea and it seems to me they've bought good attacking players and picked up some others in weak positions. 

 

And I'm not so sure it's all about Roman throwing money in. They've sold significantly over the last few years and they're buying significantly. They turnover about 450m per year and have a wage bill of around 250m. So they have 200m per year slushing round to do other stuff, like run the stadium, training ground, kids and transfers. It doesn't seem an incredible reach they could afford.to buy players, most clubs can and they're wealthier than most clubs now even without Romans rubbles. Only fsg brainwashing makes people think there's no money for investment in players. 

There was an Athletic article recently talking about where they've gotten the money this summer and I'm pretty sure it intimates that the funds are coming straight from Roman. And he commited 250m of his own money last season too for other expenses. It's all about Roman, mate. 

[Jose Jones]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

So they've a choice. Buy players who are better than the ones they've got or not buy players better than the ones they've got and stuck with the lads who did well but nowhere near well enough. So clearly cohesion is important, but equally good players are really important too. Talent nearly always wins through, they've a decent side anyway and pretty much everyone they've brought in is a significant step up. 

 

Back in the day (before transfer windows!) we bought barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge in a 10 month spell (aldo early in the year, Barnes and Beardsley in the summer and Houghton a few games into the season)  with a manager who had 2 years of management under his belt. Everyone said that was too much at once too. I don't think they needed a game to gel, they were all just great footballers who got on with playing football and we're a magnificent side.

 

Over the last 15 years Chelsea have shown to have an incredible resilience to changes of players and managers. If I were a Chelsea fan, I'd be delighted with the summers work. 

 

If you were a Chelsea fan, which of their new players would you choose to join their rivals? 

Did people really say that signing Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge, and Houghton was too much?

In my memory we all thought it was needed as Kenny had retired and Rush went to Juventus so we needed a whole new attack to replace the best one in the club's history.  Plus Kenny didn't fancy Paul Walsh, and he kept getting injured.

Mind you I was 11 at the time. 

[TheHowieLama]

2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

We're lucky right now we've a manager who can turn a 4th place standard team into wonderful champions.

 

 

I keep hearing this. If that is the case we should acknowledge two things.

 

We are fucked when he leaves, so party hard now.

 

The players don't matter as the next fella will bring us back to feeding on scraps in any case.

[Ne Moe Imya]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

We're lucky right now we've a manager who can turn a 4th place standard team into wonderful champions. But he's not a magician despite the illusion he creates. What we should be doing at this point in time is finding a way to let him have the players he thinks he needs, he's earned that. As has been pointed out loads of times, if we can't afford to back the manager after the income cycle of the last 3 year, we're absolutely fucked if we have an off year. 

This line of logic is so obviously broken that it amazes me people keep saying it.

 

1. Klopp is so good that a team with 4th place talent finishes top of the league by 20 points.

AND

2. We need to buy better players so that he can win the league.

 

Er, what? Either the players we currently have are really good, in which case unless we have reason to believe they'll decline, all we need to do is add depth, OR Klopp is so great of a manager that it doesn't matter, in which case why buy anyone at all? Simply let Klopp take our gang of Sunday-league players and turn them into world-beaters and win trophies.

 

Neither of these arguments leads to the conclusion you are trying so had to get to, which is that we need to buy a bunch of high-priced stars to succeed.

[Jose Jones]

5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Indeed it's a difficult argument and we're in agreement klopp is a key feature. But as I posted earlier today, so feel like I'm repeating myself, but klopp was brilliant at Dortmund. They had their model. He didn't complain about it, in fact was on board with it and it worked well for a period till it didn't. But to continually attempt to be less competitive than your rivals eventually catches up with you despite an amazing manager like klopp. We've a rare talent at our club, we should indulge him. And he seems to me to be a safe financial pair of hands as he doesn't seem to sanction many transfers that don't work. Why would you not trust him unless you weren't arsed about the outcome and the only thing that mattered was the expenditure? 

So here's a big thing. Being 3rd or 4th every year and not winning is pointless to me. It's basically being Everton with a failed European run. The aim should always be 1st. We're lucky right now we've a manager who can turn a 4th place standard team into wonderful champions. But he's not a magician despite the illusion he creates. What we should be doing at this point in time is finding a way to let him have the players he thinks he needs, he's earned that. As has been pointed out loads of times, if we can't afford to back the manager after the income cycle of the last 3 year, we're absolutely fucked if we have an off year. 

 

 

I agree with almost all of that, but "4th place standard team"?  What?

[Jose Jones]

Anyway, it's pretty clear that we need another class attacking option, and one who is younger than the current 3.

Klopp wanted Werner, and it was all lined up, but was then told we couldn't afford him at that time, due to the Covid revenue uncertainty. 

Most of the fans now complaining about the owners would have been pretty happy with our position and not complaining too much had we signed Werner, I would think.

 

[No2]

8 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Sure, but you'd want your expensive players to all be able to fit in a system. They've bought one too many players, there's no doubt about that. Someone will leave in a huff next season. 

Werner to Liverpool on a 6m 2 year loan deal with option to buy.

[Barrington Womble]

7 hours ago, an tha said:

I read the other day our matchday revenue was £84m in the season before last.

 

Matchday revenue (2018/19)

Liverpool saw matchday revenue rise from £81m to £84m (4%) as the club benefitted slightly from a rise in pre-season revenue as they look for new ways to boost matchday revenue. Liverpool are operating at close to full capacity and hence matchday revenue is close to its maximum with the only potential growth areas being in hospitality or matchday spending....

So how many games was that.. 19 league, 6 europe, 2 in cups...lets call it 27....

3m a match roughly then.

 

So what did we lose in matchday revenue last season due to covid?.....25m say?

 

And there is the anticipation of that 3m a game for the forseeable future - maybe it is a bit less but it is around that.

 

What else have we lost? TV money, sponsors etc?

We only lost 4 games last season. But revenues I'm assuming will be further down on that as we got knocked out of the CL early, so lost another 2 games on that season. 

7 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

There was an Athletic article recently talking about where they've gotten the money this summer and I'm pretty sure it intimates that the funds are coming straight from Roman. And he commited 250m of his own money last season too for other expenses. It's all about Roman, mate. 

I've not seen that and nothing like that has been published elsewhere. 

6 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Did people really say that signing Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge, and Houghton was too much?

In my memory we all thought it was needed as Kenny had retired and Rush went to Juventus so we needed a whole new attack to replace the best one in the club's history.  Plus Kenny didn't fancy Paul Walsh, and he kept getting injured.

Mind you I was 11 at the time. 

Damn right they did and definitely from outside the club. The Houghton signing was ridiculed at the time. 

5 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

I keep hearing this. If that is the case we should acknowledge two things.

 

We are fucked when he leaves, so party hard now.

 

The players don't matter as the next fella will bring us back to feeding on scraps in any case.

I'm absolutely certain we're fucked when klopp goes as it will seem really unlikely we'd find a manager of his talent who'd work with no budget. We absolutely should enjoy it while he's here, which for me is more frustrating he's not being supported to get the most out of him before he goes in 2024. 

3 hours ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

This line of logic is so obviously broken that it amazes me people keep saying it.

 

1. Klopp is so good that a team with 4th place talent finishes top of the league by 20 points.

AND

2. We need to buy better players so that he can win the league.

 

Er, what? Either the players we currently have are really good, in which case unless we have reason to believe they'll decline, all we need to do is add depth, OR Klopp is so great of a manager that it doesn't matter, in which case why buy anyone at all? Simply let Klopp take our gang of Sunday-league players and turn them into world-beaters and win trophies.

 

Neither of these arguments leads to the conclusion you are trying so had to get to, which is that we need to buy a bunch of high-priced stars to succeed.

 

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

I agree with almost all of that, but "4th place standard team"?  What?

So I'm answering the 2 points above with this one. So take a step back and look at the players we've bought and are regulars in the team. None of them had achieved anything in a top league except milner who was a squad player and not a regular. But go 1 by 1 of what they were when klopp got his hands on them:

 

Alisson and VVD were both players who had outgrown where they were and looked ready for the leap (although personally I'd not seen that in alisson as my only view of him was against us and the WC, but people who'd watched more said he was already brilliant and he was Brazil's number 1). So I won't give klopp credit for those two. But that's where it ends. 

 

Trent - a midfielder at kid level and he's groomed him to reinvent full back along with his buddy from a relegated hull at left back who cost us 8m. Do you think it's coincidence we've magiced upon the 2 best full backs reinventing the game or is this because the manager has transformed them both?

Gomez/matip. Matip half decent centre back in an average team klopp makes look a world class star if only he could stay fit. Gomez a kid learning his trade perhaps keeps matip out when they're both fit. 

 

Henderson - ridiculed inside and outside the club. He's now player of the year. 

 

Gini, was a 10 at a relegated Newcastle, now he's the midfielder who plays more minutes for the champions than any other midfielder. 

 

Fabinho from a decent Monaco team where he was very far from the star. He's now one of the world's leading deep lying midfielders. 

 

Bobby, had a reasonable career at an ordinary club and came to us and was ok, but not great. Now he's probably the most important player for the champions. 

 

Salah, failed at Chelsea, jumped club to club, was doing ok at a top 4 Italian club, but didn't look world class. Now top scorer in the league for 2 out of the 3 years he's been here.

Mane, an inconsistent if talented player at a.mid table club. He was 4th in the 2019 balon d'Or. 

They're a bunch of players who had never excelled at the highest levels. He's helped them improve technically and tactically. The the biggest thing he's given them is he's one of very few managers who allows his players to be in charge on the pitch. They need to solve problems themselves and don't need to turn for help from some jumble of formation like you'd see from the likes of houllier, Rafa and rodgers in our history.

 

Would they be 4th place now without him, probably not, but who knows? I feel pretty certain this group players wouldn't have won a league without him. And that's not to give the players no credit, they've been on the journey with him and needed to improve their games massively to get where they are, but it's klopps genius that has made them the champions. 

 

Right that took longer to typed than I planned. Sorry for typos, I've run out of time to check it. 

 

 

[clockspeed]

1 hour ago, Jose Jones said:

Anyway, it's pretty clear that we need another class attacking option, and one who is younger than the current 3.

Klopp wanted Werner, and it was all lined up, but was then told we couldn't afford him at that time, due to the Covid revenue uncertainty. 

Most of the fans now complaining about the owners would have been pretty happy with our position and not complaining too much had we signed Werner, I would think.

 

Is correct Werner and back up left back (plus Gini signing up) is all we needed. Let lallana , clyne, lovren, Shaq,Wilson and whatever kids aren't going to make it go in terms of squad and for whatever reason they are non value add to the team. Probably a bit harsh on Dejan he played his part. Think it is telling we had a back up when Lewis could not be got who are the alternatives to Werner ? Honestly and I didnt want him cause of the price, the next available who would be suitable is Sancho . Granted probably twice as good as Werner, madly expensive but he is the player we need. That's not going to happen so what now ? This will be the biggest rabbit Edwards and his team have pulled out of the hat and one of the most important. Hope it more Salah than Naby or Mane than Shaq . 50/50 chance they going to get it right . Didn't have to be this way but we are where we are now. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

So we are managing by winning trophies and getting far in Europe but don’t spend.

That bodes well if we’re not winning trophies and getting far in Europe.

Thank Christ for Jurgen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aRdja]

49 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

We only lost 4 games last season. But revenues I'm assuming will be further down on that as we got knocked out of the CL early, so lost another 2 games on that season. 

I've not seen that and nothing like that has been published elsewhere. 

Damn right they did and definitely from outside the club. The Houghton signing was ridiculed at the time. 

I'm absolutely certain we're fucked when klopp goes as it will seem really unlikely we'd find a manager of his talent who'd work with no budget. We absolutely should enjoy it while he's here, which for me is more frustrating he's not being supported to get the most out of him before he goes in 2024. 

 

So I'm answering the 2 points above with this one. So take a step back and look at the players we've bought and are regulars in the team. None of them had achieved anything in a top league except milner who was a squad player and not a regular. But go 1 by 1 of what they were when klopp got his hands on them:

 

Alisson and VVD were both players who had outgrown where they were and looked ready for the leap (although personally I'd not seen that in alisson as my only view of him was against us and the WC, but people who'd watched more said he was already brilliant and he was Brazil's number 1). So I won't give klopp credit for those two. But that's where it ends. 

 

Trent - a midfielder at kid level and he's groomed him to reinvent full back along with his buddy from a relegated hull at left back who cost us 8m. Do you think it's coincidence we've magiced upon the 2 best full backs reinventing the game or is this because the manager has transformed them both?

Gomez/matip. Matip half decent centre back in an average team klopp makes look a world class star if only he could stay fit. Gomez a kid learning his trade perhaps keeps matip out when they're both fit. 

 

Henderson - ridiculed inside and outside the club. He's now player of the year. 

 

Gini, was a 10 at a relegated Newcastle, now he's the midfielder who plays more minutes for the champions than any other midfielder. 

 

Fabinho from a decent Monaco team where he was very far from the star. He's now one of the world's leading deep lying midfielders. 

 

Bobby, had a reasonable career at an ordinary club and came to us and was ok, but not great. Now he's probably the most important player for the champions. 

 

Salah, failed at Chelsea, jumped club to club, was doing ok at a top 4 Italian club, but didn't look world class. Now top scorer in the league for 2 out of the 3 years he's been here.

Mane, an inconsistent if talented player at a.mid table club. He was 4th in the 2019 balon d'Or. 

They're a bunch of players who had never excelled at the highest levels. He's helped them improve technically and tactically. The the biggest thing he's given them is he's one of very few managers who allows his players to be in charge on the pitch. They need to solve problems themselves and don't need to turn for help from some jumble of formation like you'd see from the likes of houllier, Rafa and rodgers in our history.

 

Would they be 4th place now without him, probably not, but who knows? I feel pretty certain this group players wouldn't have won a league without him. And that's not to give the players no credit, they've been on the journey with him and needed to improve their games massively to get where they are, but it's klopps genius that has made them the champions. 

 

Right that took longer to typed than I planned. Sorry for typos, I've run out of time to check it. 

 

 

That’s an exercise that you can do to almost any team Barry. 

Let’s try Bayern:

Boateng - failed at City

Alaba - midfielder at youth level

Pavard - purchased from a relegated team 

Goretzka - Free transfer from a struggling club

Gnabry - failed at Arsenal and Pulis’ West Brom

Perisic - failed at Dortmund

Coutinho - failed at Barcelona

 

I love Klopp but we have a really good team too e.g., Hendo was very highly rated as a youngster amongst managers and fellow players. United wanted to buy Fabinho and Mané too. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

1 minute ago, aRdja said:

That’s an exercise that you can do to almost any team Barry. 

Let’s try Bayern:

Boateng - failed at City

Alaba - midfielder at youth level

Pavard - purchased from a delegated team 

Goretzka - Free transfer from a struggling club

Gnabry - failed at Arsenal and Pulis’ West Brom

Perisic - failed at Dortmund

Coutinho - failed at Barcelona

 

I love Klopp but we have a really good team too.

Thanks to him mate, thanks to him. 

[aRdja]

2 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Thanks to him mate, thanks to him. 

He’d improved them no doubt. What’s he’s done with Bobby and Gini for example... genius stuff. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

1 minute ago, aRdja said:

He’d improved them no doubt 

He gets nowhere near enough credit outside this club.

[Harry Squatter]

Dreading the day he leaves, the drop off might even happen before then, not because of Jurgen but because of the mingebag cunts. Wonder what the excuse will be next year when we don't spend?

 

Just saw an echo article on Twatter with "Liverpool announce three new signings"  yet one was the 16 year old German lad and the other two were two young Polish players, one who is a keeper. 

 

Long term they won't take us forward unless they sell some of the club to someone with some money and a bit of ambition. As said above, no one will pay over a billion for the club. 

[Horus]

Our recruitment team whenever there is a young goalkeeper waiting to be snapped up. 

 

[Harry Squatter]

 

I think we were linked with him ages ago

[Jordy Brouwer]

21 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

It's what makes pulling out of the Werner deal even tougher to understand. Even at 50m in the modern game he would seem a bargain, fit that profile and even that is too rich for us. 

I was gutted about not signing Werner. I'd had this big conversation with my Osteopath who is German ages ago while he was working on me and he was telling me how good he is, how he is one of the fastest players in the German league and how highly Klopp rates him. 

 

If the only reason we didn't sign him is because of money then that's a really big problem. It could be other things and there is a legitimate question over whether he could fit into our system. I can't shake the feeling that Klopp probably wanted him though. 

[aRdja]

 

[BeefStroganoff]

I see Gorst was back to his usual this morning with a staunch defence of our transfer policy, based off our points haul last season.

 

Henry must have been on the blower last night.

[Harry Squatter]

3 minutes ago, aRdja said:

 

FSG Echo: "Liverpool dont need to sign players like Koulibaly as they have Nat phillips"