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Captain Turdseye

Summer 2020 Transfer Thread

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Ben White would cost way too much for a player that has played one full season in the Championship. He has only got two years left on his contact though, so might be a target for next summer if he has a decent year in the league with Brighton this season. 

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2 hours ago, No2 said:

I don't know what age you are but I'm guessing you were around at the time. That list of transfers above, how many were bought to go straight into the first team? Based on price it looks like only 5 or 6 over a 10 year period and the success rate was 90% plus.

That is exactly the point I'm making. Other clubs are paying huge amounts for players because their first 11 aren't deemed good enough and they are playing catch up. If the young players we are signing for small fees make the same impact in our future, it is a policy that worked then and it is a policy that can work now. 

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6 minutes ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

That is exactly the point I'm making. Other clubs are paying huge amounts for players because their first 11 aren't deemed good enough and they are playing catch up. If the young players we are signing for small fees make the same impact in our future, it is a policy that worked then and it is a policy that can work now. 

So the mancs, chelsea  etc. stopped buying players after they won the title so the rest can catch up? Okay.

 

And we didn't get to where we are now by buying young players. We bought Van Dijk and Alisson and boom it transformed our team. 

 

No one is expecting us to do that again (unless we we sell for big money) but previously we had always bought 'mid range' players in terms of amount paid. Some would work out,some didnt. But we don't seem to be in a position to be able to even that anymore and are increasingly having to wheel and deal.

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11 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

So the mancs, chelsea  etc. stopped buying players after they won the title so the rest can catch up? Okay.

 

And we didn't get to where we are now by buying young players. We bought Van Dijk and Alisson and boom it transformed our team. 

 

No one is expecting us to do that again (unless we we sell for big money) but previously we had always bought 'mid range' players in terms of amount paid. Some would work out,some didnt. But we don't seem to be in a position to be able to even that anymore and are increasingly having to wheel and deal.

So you think if there had been no impact on the football economy and covid19 hadnt appeared, we still would not have bought Werner and one or two other targets unknown to us at present?

 

Im pretty certain if the club's finances hadnt have been impacted, and they have, Jurgen would have signed Werner. I think sancho at 108m and havertz at 90m is beyond incredulous.

 

Im actually glad we're not in for buying those players at those inflated prices but that's just me.

 

There's a full thread on the other forum about the virus yet when it comes to Liverpool and spending, some folk seem to think it's business as usual.

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2 minutes ago, ManéMan said:

So the mancs, chelsea  etc. stopped buying players after they won the title so the rest can catch up? Okay.

 

And we didn't get to where we are now by buying young players. We bought Van Dijk and Alisson and boom it transformed our team. 

 

No one is expecting us to do that again (unless we we sell for big money) but previously we had always bought 'mid range' players in terms of amount paid. Some would work out,some didnt. But we don't seem to be in a position to be able to even that anymore and are increasingly having to wheel and deal.

I'll address your points although they are not necessarily points responding to what I have written.

 

No, the champions did not stop signing players. However I'm certain there would have been examples of players who the champions at the time wanted who ended up signing for one of their rivals as they could not be guaranteed game time. United wanted Shearer. He decided to go to Blackburn. I'm sure there would have been many other examples. Fact is, a championship winning team is that mainly for the reason they have the best players and best team right now.

 

I never claimed we got to where we are as a result of signing young players. But young players can become the team of the future. After all, it worked out pretty well for United who were champions for a number of years with players who came through their youth ranks. And all the while they were also singing young players who were for the future. Ronaldo comes to mind, I'm sure there are others.

 

And the highlighted point - This is EXACTLY what people are wanting. FSG are shit because they are not putting money into the club and allowing other clubs to sign all the best players.

 

This whole scenario of FSG are not signing players has come from Werner moving to Chelsea. To spend £50-odd million on a backup striker (that's the way it is being put as he would replace Origi and fill in for Firmino when he's not available) is a big ask for the owners but an even bigger ask for the player. Does an international striker who has a choice of destinations really want to be backup to the first choice striker when he is moving to a new league and a new country? Many deals over the years have fallen through and they are not always about a certain figure, just something isn't 100% right for all involved.

 

FSG have done a way better job than Hicks and Gillette. Klopp has added to that job multiplied by 10. The players have all upped their games as a result. The team has played better over the course of the season than any other team in England.

 

Why do WE need to sign Havertz, Werner etc and if we don't that's reflecting badly on the club? Lacking ambition? Not investing in the club? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and this is a place to express them but to rant and rave about not signing players is really not achieving anything at all.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

So you think if there had been no impact on the football economy and covid19 hadnt appeared, we still would not have bought Werner and one or two other targets unknown to us at present?

 

Im pretty certain if the club's finances hadnt have been impacted, and they have, Jurgen would have signed Werner. I think sancho at 108m and havertz at 90m is beyond incredulous.

 

Im actually glad we're not in for buying those players at those inflated prices but that's just me.

 

There's a full thread on the other forum about the virus yet when it comes to Liverpool and spending, some folk seem to think it's business as usual.

COVID-19 is obviously a huge factor but probably not the only one. He's a fantastic player and I really wanted the club to sign him. But we didn't. I think £50-odd million is a lot for who would be essentially a squad player rather than an automatic first choice. There are so many reasons why we didn't sign these players but fact is we didn't.

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1 minute ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

COVID-19 is obviously a huge factor but probably not the only one. He's a fantastic player and I really wanted the club to sign him. But we didn't. I think £50-odd million is a lot for who would be essentially a squad player rather than an automatic first choice. There are so many reasons why we didn't sign these players but fact is we didn't.

Yes, I agree. A 250,000 grand a week wedge and being given assurance he'll be a first team fixture is going to be a big inducement.

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9 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

So you think if there had been no impact on the football economy and covid19 hadnt appeared, we still would not have bought Werner and one or two other targets unknown to us at present?

 

Im pretty certain if the club's finances hadnt have been impacted, and they have, Jurgen would have signed Werner. I think sancho at 108m and havertz at 90m is beyond incredulous.

 

Im actually glad we're not in for buying those players at those inflated prices but that's just me.

 

There's a full thread on the other forum about the virus yet when it comes to Liverpool and spending, some folk seem to think it's business as usual.

Remember some people got mad we failed for Thomas Lemar, who was bought 80 M£ or something.
 

The player who would be perfect for us is Griezmann. He scores, he had assists, he defends, he runs.
 

But this won’t happen, he’s Spanish in his heart and a United fan as a Kid.

 

Too bad really, he would be a great   option  from the bench as Bobby’s back up !

 

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7 minutes ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

 

I never claimed we got to where we are as a result of signing young players. But young players can become the team of the future.

 

They went into the first 11 and became the team of the future.

 

Hughes and Rush were 18. Hansen was 20 I think. 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

They went into the first 11 and became the team of the future.

 

Hughes and Rush were 18. Hansen was 20 I think. 

 

 

 

 

Rush made his debut in December 1980 after signing in May/June 1980, replacing Kenny who was injured. Mostly in the first season Rush played reserve team football, which is not really a thing anymore.

 

Hansen was used sporadically in his first season.

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Whelan was young as well - Thommo, Hughes and Smith before that either came through or were bought young

 

We won a CL with Gerrard and Carra at the heart of the side.

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2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Whelan was young as well - Thommo, Hughes and Smith before that either came through or were bought young

 

We won a CL with Gerrard and Carra at the heart of the side.

Signing young players is a great thing. That's what we are doing now.

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

How many golas did he score at age 20?

No idea, he scored his first gola in 1981 so he was probably 19 then.

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1 minute ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

Signing young players is a great thing. That's what we are doing now.

No idea, he scored his first gola in 1981 so he was probably 19 then.

30 , starting 8 months after he joined the club - he was bought for the first team.

 

Hansen won the Cup his first year.

 

I agree that it is something we have done all along.

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If we sign Lewis, Thiago and this young Brazilian lad that would be a decent summer all things considered. 

 

I know normally we try and get our business done early, but because of how short the break is this year, there's not really much of an advantage as we won't have a proper pre season.

 

With Thiago in particular, if he has set his heart on joining us, then the longer we wait, the lower the fee we will get him for. In less than 5 months he can start talks with clubs about a free transfer. 

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15 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

If we sign Lewis, Thiago and this young Brazilian lad that would be a decent summer all things considered. 

 

I know normally we try and get our business done early, but because of how short the break is this year, there's not really much of an advantage as we won't have a proper pre season.

 

With Thiago in particular, if he has set his heart on joining us, then the longer we wait, the lower the fee we will get him for. In less than 5 months he can start talks with clubs about a free transfer. 

Thiago signing lifts the quality right away. I hope we don't let Gini go though. 

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1 hour ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

 

This whole scenario of FSG are not signing players has come from Werner moving to Chelsea.

 

 

No it has not.

Many people have been questioning their ambition and their cheap practices for years, have you been living under a rock?  In fact the criticism of them has died down loads, despite the Werner failure, because of what Klopp has achieved.  

By the FSG die-hards you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you criticise them when we're rubbish you get told you wouldn't criticise if things were going better on the pitch, if you criticise them when we're winning you get told you don't appreciate winning.  Or worse, that you don't appreciate Klopp's genius, which is bullshit as it's precisely because you do appreciate Klopp's genius that you wonder what he could achieve with better resources. 

I don't think anyone is asking for millions upon millions to be splurged on big names for the sake of it, just that one or two problem areas are given the attention they need in order to sustain and maybe even build on the success we've had.  Some people make out that's too much to ask, and frankly it feels like they won't be happy until any criticism of FSG stops.

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4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Thiago signing lifts the quality right away. I hope we don't let Gini go though. 

 

Me neither, but if Gini wants to go, he's either going this summer or next. I've always had this feeling that Klopp has never been 100% convinced with him. The fact that he didn't start him in midfield in either of the legs against Barcelona was interesting. Wijnaldums second half performance though was something to behold.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Moo said:

No it has not.

Many people have been questioning their ambition and their cheap practices for years, have you been living under a rock?  In fact the criticism of them has died down loads, despite the Werner failure, because of what Klopp has achieved.  

By the FSG die-hards you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you criticise them when we're rubbish you get told you wouldn't criticise if things were going better on the pitch, if you criticise them when we're winning you get told you don't appreciate winning.  Or worse, that you don't appreciate Klopp's genius, which is bullshit because it's precisely because you do appreciate Klopp's genius that you wonder what he could achieve with better resources. 

I don't think anyone is asking for millions upon millions to be splurged on big names for the sake of it, just that one or two problem areas are given the attention they need in order to sustain and maybe even build on the success we've had.  Some people make out that's too much to ask, and frankly it feels like they won't be happy until any criticism of FSG stops.

Not at all. FSG have made mistakes, some really big ones. But for the most part they have done their best to correct any mistakes that can be corrected. Running any worldwide organisation is an extremely tough thing to do and not everyone will be happy with the decisions that are made. But as far as I can see, they have not asset stripped the club like Hicks and Gillette did and they have appointed a coach who wants to be there while being more than competent at the job. 

 

Roy Hodgson was appointed by the last owners and they signed generally awful players. That's a lack of ambition. 

 

FSG for me are showing nothing like that and seem to be in it for watching the team succeed. If as a business it succeeds then that's all the better for them. 

 

Unfortunately modern football is very much a worldwide business and that's the same throughout the sport. In the grand scheme of things seeing what is happening with other clubs, I say their report card is pretty good. 

 

I wonder what fans of other clubs in England would say of our owners compared to theirs? Arsenal? Tottenham? Do they show a level of ambition? 

 

Liverpool are keeping hold of their best players. That's something which is definitely different from times past. 

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24 minutes ago, Moo said:

No it has not.

Many people have been questioning their ambition and their cheap practices for years, have you been living under a rock?  In fact the criticism of them has died down loads, despite the Werner failure, because of what Klopp has achieved.  

By the FSG die-hards you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you criticise them when we're rubbish you get told you wouldn't criticise if things were going better on the pitch, if you criticise them when we're winning you get told you don't appreciate winning.  Or worse, that you don't appreciate Klopp's genius, which is bullshit because it's precisely because you do appreciate Klopp's genius that you wonder what he could achieve with better resources. 

I don't think anyone is asking for millions upon millions to be splurged on big names for the sake of it, just that one or two problem areas are given the attention they need in order to sustain and maybe even build on the success we've had.  Some people make out that's too much to ask, and frankly it feels like they won't be happy until any criticism of FSG stops.

And people are asking the owners to invest millions. In fact reading your whole post shows there is inconsistency as apparently FSG lack ambition for not spending money and being cheap. How many 'expensive' players have Liverpool signed? 

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I think there are folks who are pointing out that we never operated at the top of the world table in terms of transfer fees. To go out and buy a world class player is not easy. Our top spunk (say Collymore) was never more than half of what top fees in the world were at the time. 

Prior to Alison I can't think of a time where we ever signed a player who could have been in the conversation as the best in their position. That includes Van Dijk as his status has doubled since he has been at Liverpool.

Suarez was probably not in the top 10 strikers when we bought him. Not sure you could even put Kenny in a top 10 at the time. Torres might have been in with a shout.

 

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