Coronavirus

[Pidge]

6 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I disagree that the government has been transparent and open with its scientific advice.  If I recall correctly, earlier this year Labour (Corbyn) had to resort to pressuring the government to publish the advice it was basing its policy on. That shouldn't be necessary - everything should be as transparent as possible so that the public can have confidence in the government's approach. 

 

As you say, SAGE is run in a clandestine manner with political influences such as Cummings in attendance.  To me this is not remotely acceptable.  So no, let's not let SAGE off the hook if they have such an integral role in determining policy.  Instead they should be scrutinised openly and held to the highest standards of scientific, legal and political accountability.

 

I'm talking about broad scienctific consensus based upon the largest pool of views and studies available, not cherry picking advice from one or two individuals or institutions and hiding behind a closed shop like SAGE. 

I broadly agree with all of this. 

 

But on this: "I disagree that the government has been transparent and open with its scientific advice." 

 

This isn't what I was saying, I don't think they have either. I was saying that the modelling from Imperial was published and available. Other models, such as Professor Pike's, were shared openly pre-publication to support debate and provide a methodology that could be built upon (the paper says this - it was never intended to be a prediction). The news cycle took it and published it further (and pretty misleadingly) and he's - unfairly in my opinion - caught backlash as a result from people who aren't willing to even read the abstract to the paper, let alone the content.

[Section_31]

If coronavirus doesn't create immunity then there's no point locking down until a vaccine is found as a vaccine won't produce an immune response either presumably?

 

This initial lockdown will have served a purpose in terms of avoiding ICUs being overrun and bodies being piled high in wards because there's no beds and ventilators, but beyond that it'd serve no purpose longterm surely. 

 

Under such circumstances it'd just be a case of developing therapeutic drugs designed to treat the symptoms and taking our chances.

[Pureblood]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

If coronavirus doesn't create immunity then there's no point locking down until a vaccine is found as a vaccine won't produce an immune response either presumably?

 

This initial lockdown will have served a purpose in terms of avoiding ICUs being overrun and bodies being piled high in wards because there's no beds and ventilators, but beyond that it'd serve no purpose longterm surely. 

 

Under such circumstances it'd just be a case of developing therapeutic drugs designed to treat the symptoms and taking our chances.

I think that advice from WHO about lack of immunity was unhelpful.  Saying there is "no evidence" is an easy cop out.  Okay, there may be no evidence but that doesn't mean there's no immunity.  They would have been better off saying nothing and then giving advice when there IS evidence. Surely this would be a better approach and lead to a stronger clarity of communication to the masses, rather than expressing things in the negative.  But hey, that's just my view.  

[Jose Jones]

11 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

If coronavirus doesn't create immunity then there's no point locking down until a vaccine is found as a vaccine won't produce an immune response either presumably?

 

This initial lockdown will have served a purpose in terms of avoiding ICUs being overrun and bodies being piled high in wards because there's no beds and ventilators, but beyond that it'd serve no purpose longterm surely. 

 

Under such circumstances it'd just be a case of developing therapeutic drugs designed to treat the symptoms and taking our chances.

Not necessarily, it is possible to create a vaccine that stimulates the immune system to fight an infection, even if the infection itself does not provide future immunity.

It does not bode well for a quick vaccine though - the easiest vaccines are those which either use a dead virus, like the flu vaccine, or a bit of the virus - e.g. DNA/RNA from the virus to stimulate the immune system.  If that’s not going to work, and quite a few scientists think they won’t, then discovering and developing a vaccine could take a long time. Generally around a decade.

 

However a hell of a lot of clever people have been working on this one, so there’s a chance of getting lucky. It is worth noting that there’s never been a successful Coronavirus vaccine though.

 

 

[Pidge]

Finding an effective way to treat the symptoms is right up there next to vaccination, in terms of priorities. Along with understanding the possible long-term effects of the virus.

[cochyn]

14 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Not necessarily, it is possible to create a vaccine that stimulates the immune system to fight an infection, even if the infection itself does not provide future immunity.

It does not bode well for a quick vaccine though - the easiest vaccines are those which either use a dead virus, like the flu vaccine, or a bit of the virus - e.g. DNA/RNA from the virus to stimulate the immune system.  If that’s not going to work, and quite a few scientists think they won’t, then discovering and developing a vaccine could take a long time. Generally around a decade.

 

However a hell of a lot of clever people have been working on this one, so there’s a chance of getting lucky. It is worth noting that there’s never been a successful Coronavirus vaccine though.

 

 

 

The Harvard paper on post-pandemic scenarios posited the possibility of cross-immunity between two of the four coronavirus common in temperate regions. Two CVs (I forget the names) are believed to be the causes of the common cold, the others are MERS and now Covid-19. They suggest that this cross-immunisation might (?) account for the number of asymptomatic cases of those who've tested positive to Covid-19. Basically, if you had a common cold, you might not contract Covid 19, just carry it. Possibly..

[Pureblood]

Chairman of British Medical Association says everyone should wear a mask. Who knew?  Follow the science. 

 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/26/essential-workers-outside-nhs-given-face-mask-12611095/

 

‘Common sense tells you that a barrier between people must offer a level of protection, however small,’ Dr Nagpaul said.

 

‘The Government must pursue all avenues of reducing the spread of infection.

 

‘This includes asking the public to wear face coverings to cover mouths and noses when people leave home for essential reasons.’

[cochyn]

4 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Chairman of British Medical Association says everyone should wear a mask. Who knew?  Follow the science. 

 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/26/essential-workers-outside-nhs-given-face-mask-12611095/

 

‘Common sense tells you that a barrier between people must offer a level of protection, however small,’ Dr Nagpaul said.

 

‘The Government must pursue all avenues of reducing the spread of infection.

 

‘This includes asking the public to wear face coverings to cover mouths and noses when people leave home for essential reasons.’

 

Common sense also tells you driving at 10mph is safer that driving at 50mph.

[Pureblood]

1 minute ago, cochyn said:

 

Common sense also tells you driving at 10mph is safer that driving at 50mph.

Well, we have 20mph zones...

[Gnasher]

8 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Chairman of British Medical Association says everyone should wear a mask. Who knew?  Follow the science. 

 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/26/essential-workers-outside-nhs-given-face-mask-12611095/

 

‘Common sense tells you that a barrier between people must offer a level of protection, however small,’ Dr Nagpaul said.

 

‘The Government must pursue all avenues of reducing the spread of infection.

 

‘This includes asking the public to wear face coverings to cover mouths and noses when people leave home for essential reasons.’

I told em you knew it all.

[cochyn]

5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Well, we have 20mph zones...

 

And a good thing too, in the right places. Should we have 'mask zones', or 'mask tasks'? (I'm not in any way being facetious). I'm not convinced wearing masks outside the home at all times is feasible, or helpful in many everyday circumstances (in classrooms for example). Its a conundrum, surely?

[TheHowieLama]

The biggest fallacy of this whole thing is the "opening of the economy." That is code for getting the plebs back to work.

No one has any money - there will be no magical rebound.

[Pureblood]

13 minutes ago, cochyn said:

 

And a good thing too, in the right places. Should we have 'mask zones', or 'mask tasks'? (I'm not in any way being facetious). I'm not convinced wearing masks outside the home at all times is feasible, or helpful in many everyday circumstances (in classrooms for example). Its a conundrum, surely?

Absolutely we should have mask zones. Supermarkets and public transport are a must. There's no argument for them not to be compulsory there. 

 

Classrooms, I don't know. If it was up to me I'd err on the side of caution.  Kids can be snotty little things with poor self-control when it comes to coughing covid all over the classroom.  The government owe us one after Thatcher stole our milk so they can provide masks in school for free. 

[Section_31]

6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

The biggest fallacy of this whole thing is the "opening of the economy." That is code for getting the plebs back to work.

No one has any money - there will be no magical rebound.

Social distancing will put people off too. Who's going to queue for two hours to get into B&Q? Or want to be corralled into the corner of a coffee shop and get served by staff who're dressed for a bout of brain surgery.

 

Not for me Clive.

[Spy Bee]

My missus works in a doctor's surgery, they are opening their doors again a week on Monday. Also, my mate is a contractor for the council (sparky) and they've been told they're going back to work on May 4th.

[Pureblood]

May 4th be with him. 

[Pidge]

3 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

My missus works in a doctor's surgery, they are opening their doors again a week on Monday. Also, my mate is a contractor for the council (sparky) and they've been told they're going back to work on May 4th.

Surprised the surgery closed to be honest. Were they already set up for remote consultations?

 

Heard quite a few construction firms will be opening again. By the sound of things mainly to complete projects with one person per plot.

[TheHowieLama]

8 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Social distancing will put people off too. Who's going to queue for two hours to get into B&Q? Or want to be corralled into the corner of a coffee shop and get served by staff who're dressed for a bout of brain surgery.

 

Not for me Clive.

I think you are right here.

 

The finances of food establishments especially are built on a full house.

No restaurant is going to turn a profit if it is half full unless their leases and food costs are cut in half, the staff is the least of the costs by far.

 

Auto dealers and real estate offices may never come back - those industries were already moving to online.

[Spy Bee]

1 minute ago, Pidge said:

Surprised the surgery closed to be honest. Were they already set up for remote consultations?

 

Heard quite a few construction firms will be opening again. By the sound of things mainly to complete projects with one person per plot.

Almost all the surgeries around here shut. The other day in North Wales out of 140 ICU beds only 10 were in use. I suppose they can't justify keeping things shut down!

[Sugar Ape]

25 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Social distancing will put people off too. Who's going to queue for two hours to get into B&Q? Or want to be corralled into the corner of a coffee shop and get served by staff who're dressed for a bout of brain surgery.

 

Not for me Clive.

 

 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Why on earth would you want to stand in a queue that long for something which isn't essential? 

[Gnasher]

Has WWF supremo Vince Mcman taken over the bbc news coverage? Every time I take a look it shows Boris Johnson clapping nurses at number 10 before informing me yet again hes back at work tommow, they probably organising a nurses guard of honour and a firework display for when he walks back into downing street.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

Why on earth would you want to stand in a queue that long for something which isn't essential? 

Boredom

[Megadrive Man]

Putting the queue in B&Q!

 

It was the same where I live according to what I've seen of Facebook.

 

It doesn't actually surprise me though because a lot of people have got way too much time in their hands and a lot of online DIY places have either ran out of stuff or haven't got the resources to send it out.

[Guest Pistonbroke]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Boredom

 

I could think of more interesting things to do to alleviate boredom. If it is down to boredom then they are just adding to the suffering.