Jump to content
Bjornebye

Coronavirus

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, TK421 said:

My strong impression is that healthcare workers are already prohibited from talking about any issues within the service, it's just not enforced as strictly as it sounds like will now be the case.

 

I've known great nurses leave, specifically because they couldn't take what the paring back of staff/services was physically/mentally doing to them anymore, and was told in confidence by one that they're still forbidden from talking publicly about the situation once they've resigned, due to stipulations inherent in the contract they must all sign when joining up.

 

All a bit vague and anecdotal so I appreciate its not of great value, but it's something I've heard more than once.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

I’d like to put something out here to get peer reviewed. Not that you downbeats are my peers, but that’s another issue.

 

so my ex got a letter from the hospital this week saying she must isolate for a minimum of 12 weeks due to her cancer and treatment.

 

her treatment hasn’t previously been on the restricted list so until this week we had been bouncing our little girl between us until told otherwise, but now since the letter we’ve sent my little girl to live with her mum, as I feel I can handle it mentally better than her mum with all that she’s dealing with.

 

my missus is a cooper so can’t avoid contact with public, so we can’t risk doing what we had been doing.

 

weve now got a plan, and I’d like you to find the flaws in it if there are any, before we put it into action.

 

my missus’ brother has a vacant flat at the moment. 
 

the plan is to share my girl between me and my ex every 2 weeks. At the point I take her, my missus moves into the flat for 2 weeks. Me and my daughter then self isolate for a fortnight together. Meaning when i return her to her mum 2 weeks later there should be no risk of infecting my ex.

 

my missus then moves back in for 2 weeks, and rinse after repeat until lockdown is over, or circumstances change.

 

i think it’s a sound plan, but if there are holes I’d like to know.

 

Cheers.

What if your missus picks it up in the line of her work, but remains asymptomatic. Or passes it to you and you do.

 

The next time your little girl comes to stay she could potentially pick it up and take it back before you realise one/both of you have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

What if your missus picks it up in the line of her work, but remains asymptomatic. Or passes it to you and you do.

 

The next time your little girl comes to stay she could potentially pick it up and take it back before you realise one/both of you have it.

Assumed that the 2 weeks we would isolate after my missus moves out would deal with that, but hadn’t thought about the possibility that all 3 of us could get it without symptoms.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have it asymptomatically, does it just stay in you with the potential to spread in perpetuity, or would antibodies get rid of it within 2 weeks like they would in a very mild case?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

Assumed that the 2 weeks we would isolate after my missus moves out would deal with that, but hadn’t thought about the possibility that all 3 of us could get it without symptoms.

This is going to be the fucker until they can provide an accurate, reliable antibody test and definitively show people can only get it once. Until then we're all groping in the dark blindly, to a greater or lesser extent depending on severity.

 

Good luck mate, it's horribly cruel that you guys are having to deal with logistical wrangles like this now, on top of the rest of it.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bob Spunkmouse said:

If you have it asymptomatically, does it just stay in you with the potential to spread in perpetuity, or would antibodies get rid of it within 2 weeks like they would in a very mild case?

Nobody knows. It's a novel virus and only limited data is available, I doubt even a specialist doctor would be able to give you a full answer to that. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob I don't know the right answer and I'm not sure anyone possibly could. All I can do is send my best wishes that by the end of it all the 3 of you are in the best health possible. Physically and mentally. 

 

Glad to hear you are being strong. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

This is going to be the fucker until they can provide an accurate, reliable antibody test and definitively show people can only get it once. Until then we're all groping in the dark blindly, to a greater or lesser extent depending on severity.

 

Good luck mate, it's horribly cruel that you guys are having to deal with logistical wrangles like this now, on top of the rest of it.

Cheers mate. It’s a head fuck, honestly.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Bob Spunkmouse said:

If you have it asymptomatically, does it just stay in you with the potential to spread in perpetuity, or would antibodies get rid of it within 2 weeks like they would in a very mild case?

My understanding is that scientists just don't know for sure at present. Others may be more au fait with the current definitive state of play.

 

With your ex in her current position I'd personally be erring on the side of caution, to be brutally honest.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 4 possible options for us, although one of them is very much open to change.

 

1. She lives with her mum for the full isolation period. This is only really possible if her condition doesn’t deteriorate and:or she doesn’t move onto chemo.

 

this would suck for me, not being able to see her, but I’d have to suck it up.

 

2. she lives with me for the full isolation period. On top of what she’s dealing with I don’t see this as viable as it’ll completely fuck her mental health up.

 

3. the idea I shared just now. With the possibility that we are not keeping her safe.

 

4. a similar approach but where my missus moves out for the whole period. This would mean they same risk immediately as option 3, but not adding to that risk going forward, so lessened. But would also be a concern for me mentally, as I’m not doing brilliantly at being on my own since this all happened and I reckon I need her here for me to be ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

End of, the only number that will matter will be total deaths - of all kinds - as that will figure in virus deaths, undiagnosed deaths, as well as give an idea as to other deaths caused by the undue strain in health systems.

To date, Spain has confirmed 152,336 cases of the virus, and 15,238 deaths. However, there are growing doubts over the way in which the country is counting the dead.

Recently released data from judicial authorities in Madrid suggest that 6,600 more people than usual died in the last two weeks of March, compared with the official tally of 3,500 Covid-19 deaths in the region.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Lizzie Birdsworths Wrinkled Chopper said:

My understanding is that scientists just don't know for sure at present.

South Korea reported like 50 cases where people got the virus again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Recently released data from judicial authorities in Madrid suggest that 6,600 more people than usual died in the last two weeks of March, compared with the official tally of 3,500 Covid-19 deaths in the region.

That's the obvious check to do, isn't it.

 

Likewise, 'How many people usually die of 'Pneumonia' on x date/week in March?' etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

South Korea reported like 50 cases where people got the virus again

 

Are you sure about that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

South Korea reported like 50 cases where people got the virus again

Yep. There are explanations/excuses being put forward for that and I suspect if most had to stake their house on it they'd bet it will ultimately be shown something like 99%+ of people can only get the same mutation once, but fuck risking it in the current uncertainty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

South Korea reported like 50 cases where people got the virus again

They are also testing probably the most per capita. More tests, more erroneous results. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good read this.

 

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/641086-imagining-the-post-pandemic-world

 

Imagining the post-pandemic world

It may look too early to imagine the post-Covid 19 world while we do not know for sure as to how long we will be tormented by this tiny creature.

 

There is a battle going on between intellect and instinct to handle the uncertainty unfolding on us almost on a daily basis. We are surprised by new unknowns and even some of the knowns are challenged by emerging new knowledge about this pandemic.

 

Coupled with this uncertainty, there is a deepening sense of disillusionment with the global political order and its inability to respond to what appears to be the most devastating global crisis of recent history. It has exposed the fragility of the uncontested domains of free market economy and the neoliberal political ideals of ‘democracy’ and ‘freedom’. The least contested political notions like an apolitical civil society, post-ideology and individualism are being questioned along with the international political and economic system.

 

Today the question is not only about the struggle for survival but also about the intellectual contestation for alternative political and economic frameworks for a better post-Covid-19 world.

 

In the absence of universal healthcare, and with underfunded public hospitals, lack of equipment and inadequate facilities the wealthy Western economies have disappointed their citizens. State capitalist China has outperformed its Western political rivals by overcoming the pandemic because of its strong and developed public sector.

 

Contrary to an inefficient free market economy, the centrally planned capitalist economy of China has delivered well and saved thousands of lives within a short span of time. China being nearer to a socialist economic model of universal healthcare has demonstrated the importance of efficient public services to salvage people during the crisis. It appears that the post-Covid 19 world will be the end of the free market neoliberal model and the world may be moving towards a system that guarantees universal access to basic social services.

 

Covid-19 has also challenged our socially and politically constructed ideas of security and protection. The equity of fear, helplessness and vulnerability has made the conventional levers of power and control redundant. The callous, rapacious and arrogant movers and shakers of world politics and economy have lost the luster of their power and influence. The neoliberal economics that dominated the international politics for three decades is now crumbling under its own weight of inefficiency and profiteering.

 

As they say, you need to get your politics right to get your economics right. They are not two separate domains but are interlinked to shape the outlook of a society. We have had enough of disparity and dispossession in politics and economics with an ever-expanding bottom of the socioeconomic pyramid.

 

The economics of wealth generation for the rich has created a poor global society which is governed by fetishism, kleptomania and consumerism. The very human essence of creativity, art, innovation and invention has been replaced by a strict regimen of earning and spending. A false sense of individualism and freedom has taken away from us the spirit of solidarity and happiness.

 

However, this is purely because of the interplay of economic centralization with political fragmentation. What do I mean by all this? Let me explain a bit simply.

 

Economic centralization means the concentration of productive resources and wealth in the hands of a tiny minority at the top of the socioeconomic pyramid. This concentration of economic resources is mediated through political ideas of individualism and freedom of choice. There are two types of freedoms then. One is the freedom of capital from state regulations, to be converted into wealth for those who control the means of production. That is the freedom for the rich to become even richer without being impeded by the government’s regulatory mechanisms. This means that if you have wealth you are free and that the ultimate objective of human freedom lies in making more and more money.

 

Two, the freedom of choice as a consumer where you are bound to earn but free to spend. As a consumer you do not own the means of production but you can only become a worker to realize the freedom of spending. This freedom of spending is conditional upon your ability, skills and hard work to earn. The more freedom of spending you can attain the more money goes into the pockets of the rich. There is no political intermediation of state to put a check on the extractive freedom of capital to multiply the wealth of the richest.

 

The freedom of the consumer to spend is only a false notion, a mirage in the desert of poverty which is concocted politically as the individual freedom. This is exactly what neoliberalism has done to global society today. Consumerism and over-spending has reduced the working classes to the instruments of wealth generators for the rich. The political voices that challenged this extractive economic system were pushed to the margins of society as social pariahs and advocates of tyrannical order. The mainstream corporate media presented them as insurgents and remnants of a closed society. Those who raised their voices for an enhanced role of the state in the provision of basic public services like education, health and transportation were ridiculed as proponents of a defunct ideology.

 

The excruciating daily life experience of the poor will continue to haunt governments’ inability to tackle the newly emerging economic and political challenges of the post-Covid-19 world. The promises of an egalitarian and prosperous society have already gone into the dustbin of history, the miseries of Adam Smith’s invisible hand of market fundamentalism still inflicts pain on humanity. The richest nations of the world, who have spent $20 trillion during the last two decades on wars against poor nations are failing miserably today to protect their own people against the coronavirus.

 

Now there are two distinct choices for humanity to craft a new world from the ashes of Covid-19. One is to return to business as usual till the time another pandemic hits the world. If we choose this path the world will become a dangerous place for those who want to live in peace and harmony. There is another possibility: that humans choose to create an inclusive, equitable and prosperous world where all resources are spent on the welfare of people. Where the need for wars ceases to exist and resources are available to fight the impending pandemics collectively and effectively.

 

A better world is possible; we have already experienced from the ongoing global crisis that this is not the world we aspire to build again. We have also witnessed how fragile human existence is on earth, despite all scientific knowledge and technological advancement. We also know that if we continue to fiddle with nature it will react and we may cease to exist one day.

 

It is our collective responsibility to resist the restoration of a neoliberal order because if it is restored, the post-Covid-19 pandemic world will be even worse for 80 percent nof humanity of the world. Do we want to continue as denizens of a bubble economy again? This is the time to make better political choices.

 

The writer is a social development and policy adviser, and a freelance columnist based in Islamabad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

Good read this.

 

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/641086-imagining-the-post-pandemic-world

 

Imagining the post-pandemic world

It may look too early to imagine the post-Covid 19 world while we do not know for sure as to how long we will be tormented by this tiny creature.

Written by some pinko-fag hippy communist, no doubt.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

What is the state of universal health care in Pakistan compared to the EU?

This bit was a bit strange too...

 

In the absence of universal healthcare, and with underfunded public hospitals, lack of equipment and inadequate facilities the wealthy Western economies have disappointed their citizens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Rico1304 said:

This bit was a bit strange too...

 

In the absence of universal healthcare, and with underfunded public hospitals, lack of equipment and inadequate facilities the wealthy Western economies have disappointed their citizens. 

Sounds like America to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×