Coronavirus

[Curly]

2 hours ago, mars said:

 

 

Until then, it seems to me we have something like Pascal's Wager, with belief in God replaced by mask wearing, and God's existence replaced by mask effectiveness.

 

That's mad - I watched a Louis CK clip last night that referred to that and it made me think. I didn't realise it was Pascal's Wager, but now I do. Serendipity that.

[Pidge]

Surprised that's even a news story at this point, as Omicron data came through it was always likely. Not sure it's necessary considering the presence in Europe already, but expected.

 

I guess vaccinations are easier to verify than the testing controls, so maybe that's part of it, with the latent risk of reinfection.

 

Also think we might see a further booster for the vulnerable in the next month or two, plus one in Sept/Oct if a further variant emerges. Hopefully if that one proves a further step away from the severity of the original virus we might be looking at COVID being a flu jab type deal for vulnerable pops only. 

 

[Torvald Utne]

...As it should have been all along

[SasaS]

2 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

Omicron will have run through the population in the next two weeks. After that there is no risk of it overwhelming the NHS. A booster takes 2 weeks before it becomes effective.

I have my doubts about boosters (on and off) but the booster campaign began before Omicron and it makes sense to finish it, get as many people as possible to increase immunity for the winter. Omicron may not be the last variant, nor it is certain it would be the end of the pandemic.

 

After several twist and turns, I don't think anybody can predict with any certainty what is going to happen in the future, will this stop and go away, would there be annual vaccination campaigns every autumn for a few years and so on.

[TheHowieLama]

3 hours ago, Spy Bee said:

No point going around in circles, but I would suggest that real world data shows that marks are ineffective at preventing transmission. 

Only if you assume that every case is now of Omicron variant.

[Spy Bee]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I have my doubts about boosters (on and off) but the booster campaign began before Omicron and it makes sense to finish it, get as many people as possible to increase immunity for the winter. Omicron may not be the last variant, nor it is certain it would be the end of the pandemic.

 

After several twist and turns, I don't think anybody can predict with any certainty what is going to happen in the future, will this stop and go away, would there be annual vaccination campaigns every autumn for a few years and so on.

It probably won't, but our collective immunity is building all the time, so our resistance is becoming stronger. It will not mutate so much that this is not maintained. I'd rather see these vaccines donated to poor countries where the vulnerable cannot get vaccinated. 

 

There is talk of annual vaccination campaigns, but I think this is pressure from big Pharma. There is no need for this. Double vaccination provides long lasting tT-cell immunity to serious illness and death. Many people vaccinated and otherwise have also been infected, which offers even better protection. An annual jab of questionable efficacy against the new major variant and with some safety concerns makes no sense.

[Spy Bee]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Only if you assume that every case is now of Omicron variant.

Nope.

[SasaS]

5 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

It probably won't, but our collective immunity is building all the time, so our resistance is becoming stronger. It will not mutate so much that this is not maintained. I'd rather see these vaccines donated to poor countries where the vulnerable cannot get vaccinated. 

 

There is talk of annual vaccination campaigns, but I think this is pressure from big Pharma. There is no need for this. Double vaccination provides long lasting tT-cell immunity to serious illness and death. Many people vaccinated and otherwise have also been infected, which offers even better protection. An annual jab of questionable efficacy against the new major variant and with some safety concerns makes no sense.

I doubt very much we would have unnecessary annual vaccination campaigns because of the "pressure from Big Pharma". I still maintain we do not know now what there will be the need for in the future.

[Spy Bee]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I doubt very much we would have unnecessary annual vaccination campaigns because of the "pressure from Big Pharma". I still maintain we do not know now what there will be the need for in the future.

Valance was talking about this the other day. He suggested that ultimately we may just have an annual vaccination. He didn't consider the possibility that no vaccination will be needed by most people in the long term. I don't trust Big Pharma and the pervasive influence that they have.

[SasaS]

Just now, Spy Bee said:

Valance was talking about this the other day. He suggested that ultimately we may just have an annual vaccination. He didn't consider the possibility that no vaccination will be needed by most people in the long term. I don't trust Big Pharma and the pervasive influence that they have.

Big Pharma is like MSM. It does not exist as some monolithic entity. Analyses that keep relying on such concepts are just lazy or blinkered or agenda-driven. Societies are way more complex.

[Spy Bee]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

Big Pharma is like MSM. It does not exist as some monolithic entity. Analyses that keep relying on such concepts are just lazy or blinkered or agenda-driven. Societies are way more complex.

Yeah, okay mate.

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Spy Bee said:

 I don't trust Big Pharma and the pervasive influence that they have.

You don't take any medication of any kind?

[Spy Bee]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

You don't take any medication of any kind?

That's completely irrelevant to my point.

 

I am not on any prescription meds though, no.

[SasaS]

I don't remember Big Pharma even featuring much in the conversation until the vaccine hesitancy became a real issue. It was all about government control, China, behaviour modification and population reduction at first, then it was vaccine nationalism, soft power etc, and only then it became all about Big Pharma. Big Pharma being Pfizer.

[A Red]

My mate keeps Llamas on his small holding and as a side line sells their medications to other breeders.

[Spy Bee]

14 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I don't remember Big Pharma even featuring much in the conversation until the vaccine hesitancy became a real issue. It was all about government control, China, behaviour modification and population reduction at first, then it was vaccine nationalism, soft power etc, and only then it became all about Big Pharma. Big Pharma being Pfizer.

These kind of strawman arguments are so fucking tiresome.

[Bjornebye]

10 minutes ago, A Red said:

My mate keeps Llamas on his small holding and as a side line sells their medications to other breeders.

Big Farmer 

[Spy Bee]

Germany enacts new Covid restrictions: Double vaccinated no longer allowed to enter cafes/restaurants without taking tests. Tests not required for the "boosted."

[A Red]

Just now, Bjornebye said:

Big Farmer 

Llama pharma farmer

 

Sorry

[SasaS]

23 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

These kind of strawman arguments are so fucking tiresome.

Where do you see a strawman here?

[Spy Bee]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Where do you see a strawman here?

You're creating an argument to knock down. I'm the one mentioning Big Pharma, instead of debating that you are knocking down other things that I never said. It's the definition of strawman.

[SasaS]

6 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

You're creating an argument to knock down. I'm the one mentioning Big Pharma, instead of debating that you are knocking down other things that I never said. It's the definition of strawman.

I am not, I said Big Pharma was not in the conversation until hesitancy became an issue, which was not directed at you, you are not "the conversation", then I listed what I remember was being mentioned in the past, what people discussed.

 

My point is that that I don't believe they are that influential as people believe, although those that have a working vaccine in times of the pandemic certainly have a lot of power. If you look at who had the first vaccines, it seems pretty obvious it was the countries, not the pharmas, countries that have an ambition of being super powers, powers or important international players in their own right. Pfizer was the only relatively independent player here, but even they were subjected to various exporting and manufacturing conditions, orders, partnerships and so on. Financially, the real money is in testing and there is surprisingly little interest and scrutiny, in comparison to vaccines. Not by you, but globally. 

 

[Pureblood]

On 09/03/2021 at 09:39, Rico1304 said:

We are still 9 yrs away from a vaccine though aren’t we?  

I think that's about the amount of time remaining until we get one that works, yes.

On 11/03/2021 at 18:40, Nelly-Torres said:

EDIT: Just read a BMJ article and the efficacy after a 12 week gap seems much higher. I'll swerve it. 

From 12 week gaps to immunity waning after 10 weeks.  

On 15/03/2021 at 23:12, Nelly-Torres said:

The International Society on Thrombosis and Haemostasis (ISTH) are recommending that people should still go ahead if offered the AstraZeneca vaccine. 

 

https://www.isth.org/news/556057

I'm guessing this advice has been updated.

On 16/03/2021 at 15:01, SasaS said:

Really makes you think that the conspiracy theorists among covid deniers may not be that crazy after all.

You were a cunt hair away from not being hypnotized.  Now you're voting for compulsory jabs.

On 16/03/2021 at 17:10, Shooter in the Motor said:

When would typical side effects from the vaccination be expected to kick in? 

Good question.  A few hours?  A day?  A week?  A month?  A year? 5-10 years?

On 18/03/2021 at 16:06, Nelly-Torres said:

EMA have declared AZ vaccine as "safe and effective" vaccine and say that benefits outweigh the risks. 

Aged well. 

On 18/03/2021 at 16:09, Nelly-Torres said:

The EMA add that there's no reason to believe that the vaccine increases risk of thrombo events, but they can't entirely rule out a causative link between the vaccine and such events. 

Ditto.

 

[Rico1304]

20 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

I think that's about the amount of time remaining until we get one that works, yes.

From 12 week gaps to immunity waning after 10 weeks.  

I'm guessing this advice has been updated.

You were a cunt hair away from not being hypnotized.  Now you're voting for compulsory jabs.

Good question.  A few hours?  A day?  A week?  A month?  A year? 5-10 years?

Aged well. 

Ditto.

 

Oi you crybully cunt. I agreed to block your snivelling incel arse as you thought I was bullying you.  I’ve not interacted with you since.  
 

So don’t go quoting me or referring to me again you hypocritical piece of shite.  

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

You were a cunt hair away from not being hypnotized.  Now you're voting for compulsory jabs.

 

It was the jabs, who knows what was in it.

 

I didn't vote, you asked me. I don't see much difference between covid passports and compulsory vaccination, for the older and vulnerable categories , it's not like they will be forcibly vaccinated. I see it as a form of pressure for people's own good. My best friend's friend is "hesitant", as was her entire family, they live in Slovenia. The mother got jabbed when the government suddenly introduced covid passports for shopping malls same time ago, and she discovered being able to shop means more to her than remaining poreblood. Her husband and his brother remained firm. You can guess where the story is going. Friends uncle died about two weeks ago, the father is now in hospital, in ICU although they are still able to keep him from the ventilator, with new cures and a lot of oxygen, but it doesn't look good. The mother was poorly for a day or two but then got better and is fine now. The friend's friend was also positive (they think it was the uncle's funeral where they were all infected) but the case was mild.

 

So, when I think about it, the mandate, although excessive, may have saved one life here, or prevent a severe case, and mandatory vaccination or similar pressure may have prevented one or even two deaths. When you look at vaccination rates throughout central and eastern Europe, they tend to be about 20 percentage points bellow the west, with 30, 40 even 50 percent of over-60s not vaccinated, which is clearly reflected in death figures. I ma pretty certain that over 90 percent of them would get vaccinated if someone told them, now you have to, here is additional info and here is where and when you need to report to get your potentially life saving jab. Only the staunchest antivaxxers would remain and they can then be left alone to take their chances.

 

So, on one hand fascism, on the other, thousands won't die and tens of thousands won't be fighting for their lives, often in not very good hospitals.