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1 hour ago, Pureblood said:

I asked first. 

 

When will the jabs reduce transmission? We were told that jabbing kids and the boosters would sort out the case numbers, but they're going up. 

What makes you think that the vaccines haven't reduced transmission from where the case numbers would be if we were unvaccinated?

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I'm not into all this vaccines are dodgy shit, but I don't see the obsession with forcing people to have it if it doesn't stop them spreading it, if they don't want the vaccine then the only real risk they're taking is with their own health.

 

If it DID stop them impacting on the lives of neighbours and colleagues I'd understand, but it doesn't.

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2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

What makes you think that the vaccines haven't reduced transmission from where the case numbers would be if we were unvaccinated?

The record breaking case numbers despite widespread use of the vaccine.

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1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

 

If it DID stop them impacting on the lives of neighbours and colleagues I'd understand, but it doesn't.

It undeniably does. If you (or anyone) wants to pick a % that would need to be met before you agree that is fine. But they do reduce the % of transmission. By about 40% is what it seems.

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Shouldn't the death rate and the rate of serious hospitalizations be the focus for treating what is the most deadly virus in any of our lifetimes?

 

I mean - unless a point is trying to be made that more cases but less % death and serious hospitalization is a bad thing. It's not really a very good point tbh.

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Has anyone noticed just how many football fans are running onto the pitch recently? 

 

It seems to have increased since the vaccine roll out, but you won't hear anybody talking about it in the MSM! 

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Just now, Nelly-Torres said:

Has anyone noticed just how many football fans are running onto the pitch recently? 

 

It seems to have increased since the vaccine roll out, but you won't hear anybody talking about it in the MSM! 

There's loads more people in the grounds as well. Must be because of the vaccine.

 

No, wait.

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3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That doesn't show what you think it shows.

At least I answered your question.  You're unable to answer mine.

 

When will the case numbers come down?  We were promised that mass vaccination would reduce transmission.   

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1 minute ago, Pureblood said:

At least I answered your question.  You're unable to answer mine.

 

When will the case numbers come down?  We were promised that mass vaccination would reduce transmission.   

When people realise they aren’t ill, they are just taking part in conspiracy led by inter dimensional shape shifting lizards. 

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1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Okay, but when will reality bear this out?  Our case numbers are going up, despite vaccinating teenagers and rolling out the booster to everyone. 

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7 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

That doesn't show what you think it shows.

It is a great pivot though for some folks.

 

Back in the old days of the first wave "they" suggested that the rise in cases was nothing to worry about as it was increased testing. The number to watch was deaths and hospitalizations. That told the story.

Now, not so much.

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Just now, Rico1304 said:

When people realise they aren’t ill, they are just taking part in conspiracy led by inter dimensional shape shifting lizards. 

Here's an example of the kind of nonsense people like you have been lapping up for the last year.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/vaccines-end-covid-19-pandemic-sight/617141/

 

The End of the Pandemic Is Now in Sight

A year of scientific uncertainty is over. Two vaccines look like they will work, and more should follow.

By Sarah Zhang
 

Vaccines can stop many, but not all, viruses. Could they stop this one?

The answer, we now know, is yes. A resounding yes. Pfizer and Moderna have separately released preliminary data that suggest their vaccines are both more than 90 percent effective, far more than many scientists expected. Neither company has publicly shared the full scope of their data, but independent clinical-trial monitoring boards have reviewed the results, and the FDA will soon scrutinize the vaccines for emergency use authorization. Unless the data take an unexpected turn, initial doses should be available in December.

 

The most tenuous moment is over: The scientific uncertainty at the heart of COVID-19 vaccines is resolved. Vaccines work. And for that, we can breathe a collective sigh of relief. “It makes it now clear that vaccines will be our way out of this pandemic,” says Kanta Subbarao, a virologist at the Doherty Institute, who has studied emerging viruses.

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2 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Okay, but when will reality bear this out?  Our case numbers are going up, despite vaccinating teenagers and rolling out the booster to everyone. 

I'm not sure how to explain this to you, if you don't already understand it.

 

If you jump out of an aeroplane, you will fall quite quickly. If you open your parachute, you will continue to fall: this does not mean that the parachute isn't working.

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2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I'm not sure how to explain this to you, if you don't already understand it.

 

If you jump out of an aeroplane, you will fall quite quickly. If you open your parachute, you will continue to fall: this does not mean that the parachute isn't working.

But we've vaccinated everyone and the case numbers are going up.

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6 hours ago, Pureblood said:

53,945 new cases.  When do we get to the part where the vaccine reduces transmission? 

2 metres a second. When do we get to the part where the parachute reduces the rate at which I'm falling?

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6 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

Here's an example of the kind of nonsense people like you have been lapping up for the last year.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/11/vaccines-end-covid-19-pandemic-sight/617141/

 

The End of the Pandemic Is Now in Sight

A year of scientific uncertainty is over. Two vaccines look like they will work, and more should follow.

By Sarah Zhang
 

Vaccines can stop many, but not all, viruses. Could they stop this one?

The answer, we now know, is yes. A resounding yes. Pfizer and Moderna have separately released preliminary data that suggest their vaccines are both more than 90 percent effective, far more than many scientists expected. Neither company has publicly shared the full scope of their data, but independent clinical-trial monitoring boards have reviewed the results, and the FDA will soon scrutinize the vaccines for emergency use authorization. Unless the data take an unexpected turn, initial doses should be available in December.

 

The most tenuous moment is over: The scientific uncertainty at the heart of COVID-19 vaccines is resolved. Vaccines work. And for that, we can breathe a collective sigh of relief. “It makes it now clear that vaccines will be our way out of this pandemic,” says Kanta Subbarao, a virologist at the Doherty Institute, who has studied emerging viruses.

Where does this suggest "they" told you it would prevent transmission?

 

Unless you are using selective sources here is what "they" told you (this took 30 seconds) a year ago:

 

Sage:

 

A member of the UK's influential SAGE committee that advises the UK Government on COVID-19, and published in Anaesthesia (a journal of the Association of Anaesthetists) says that in order for the global COVID-19 vaccination program to be successful, the available vaccines must be able to do all three of: prevent infection becoming established in an individual, prevent disease progression and prevent onward transmission.

"Whether all three of these goals will be met by 'first generation' vaccines is not known, but is vital to the long-term success of the program," explain co-authors Prof Sir Jeremy Farrar, Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) and director of the Wellcome Trust, London, UK, and Prof Tim Cook, Consultant in Anaesthesia and Intensive Care Medicine, Royal United Hospitals Bath NHS Foundation Trust, Bath, UK and Honorary Professor, School of Medicine, University of Bristol, UK.

"Preventing onward transmission—referred to as 'sterilising immunity' is particularly important as it is epidemic modifying. "It is possible that the first vaccines, including those being released now, may be more effective in preventing disease progression and hospitalisation and less effective in preventing transmission. Knowledge of their performance in pre-approval trials and in surveillance trials after licensure will enable further modifications such that improved second and third generation vaccines may be available later in 2021 and beyond."

 

UK:

In addition to the Pfizer vaccine, regulators are poring over data from a similar vaccine made by Moderna of Cambridge, Massachusetts, and a third produced by AstraZeneca of Cambridge, UK, and the University of Oxford, UK. All three have been tested in large clinical trials, and have shown promise in preventing disease symptoms.

But none has demonstrated that it prevents infection altogether, or reduces the spread of the virus in a population. This leaves open the chance that those who are vaccinated could remain susceptible to asymptomatic infection — and could transmit that infection to others who remain vulnerable. “In the worst-case scenario, you have people walking around feeling fine, but shedding virus everywhere,” says virologist Stephen Griffin at the University of Leeds, UK.

 

CDC:

  • The risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Early data suggest infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed.

WHO:

 

The World Health Organization is urging even people who have received a coronavirus vaccine to quarantine when they travel because there is not yet evidence that vaccines prevent people from transmitting the virus.

WHO's chief scientist, Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, noted on Monday that the agency had not established whether the COVID-19 vaccines being administered across the US and in Europe prevented people from getting the virus and passing it to others.

"At the moment I don't believe we have the evidence of any of the vaccines to be confident that it's going to prevent people from actually getting the infection and therefore being able to pass it on," Swaminathan told a virtual briefing, in comments reported by Axios.

 

 

These were all within a month of the vaccine being approved.

You might be listening to the wrong "they".

Or not hearing what has been said.

 

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3 minutes ago, Pureblood said:

But we've vaccinated everyone and the case numbers are going up.

"The rates are going up" means that there are more infected people this week than last week.

 

The comparison between this week and last week is not the comparison you're asking about. Your question is "what is the effect of the vaccines on the rate of infection?" For that, you would have to model a scenario in which everything else was the same but nobody was vaccinated and then compare the rates from that model to the real-life rates.

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1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Where does this suggest "they" told you it would prevent transmission?

I mean, it's right there in the headline "The End of the Pandemic is Now in Sight" but just ignore it and the paragraphs that follow.  Live in pretend world instead. 

 

I have no interest in attempting to persuade you on anything, as I've never seen you concede any point on any single topic ever. 

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3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

"The rates are going up" means that there are more infected people this week than last week.

 

The comparison between this week and last week is not the comparison you're asking about. Your question is "what is the effect of the vaccines on the rate of infection?" For that, you would have to model a scenario in which everything else was the same but nobody was vaccinated and then compare the rates from that model to the real-life rates.

Let's just agree to disagree, this is futile and dull. 

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