Coronavirus

[Mudface]

 

[Section_31]

27 minutes ago, Mudface said:

 

 

Isn't there something to be said for not tolerating mentalism? Because of social media and there being more outlets for 'fringe' opinions which in turn generate clicks, we've just humoured these people too much. They don't deserve a voice and they don't deserve respect. We've got to find a way to put them back in their box, playing with model railway sets or listening to CB radios or whatever it is they used to do, safely out of sight and out of mind.

[Red Phoenix]

4 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

I think this is more a case of people jumping to conclusions without thinking it through.

 

You're partly right with this I think when it comes to the timing. The Jerusalem Post that ran the story on aspirin reducing severe effects of covid might be the cause of most of it as well.

 

Firstly I wondered why the media had gone mental with this new aspirin risk story unrelated to covid but not the aspirin helping with covid story. Here's the first part of the Jerusalem Post article on October 6th :

 

Quote

Over-the-counter aspirin could protect the lungs of COVID-19 patients and minimize the need for mechanical ventilation, according to new research at the George Washington University.

 

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/aspirin-lowers-risk-of-covid-new-findings-support-preliminary-israeli-trial-681127

 

I searched for "George Washington University aspirin covid" and it turns out that some mainstream media did actually cover it, but they're dated March of this year :

 

CNN : Low-dose aspirin can reduce the risk of ICU admission and death of Covid-19, researchers say

 

Independent : Low-dose aspirin may reduce Covid hospitalisations and deaths, researchers say

 

USA Today : Baby aspirin may help fend off worst coronavirus effects

 

The last link is more like a Guardian blog-type thing where you can see the story by scrolling further down.

 

Next I checked for the actual "new" study the Jerusalem Post is going on about, but there is none. The study is from March like the older media articles : Aspirin Use May Decrease Ventilation, ICU admission and Death in COVID-19 Patients

 

So what the fuck is going on? Well I'd still have been lost I think but it looks like we have one Jersusalem Post commenter to help solve it :

 

 

So if that's right they reposted the article, social media got hold of it again then shortly after other media reported on the recent aspirin stuff.

 

I still think the timing of it is weird but it's clearly not what I originally thought it was. Thanks to the Jerusalem Post for saying something was a new study when it was from March, and a more genuine thanks to the commenter who seems to have solved it.

[Gnasher]

 

[Curly]

3 hours ago, Mudface said:

 

That can’t be real, surely?

[Red Phoenix]

24 minutes ago, Belarus said:

That can’t be real, surely?

 

Nope :

 

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/supposed-photo-of-math-challenged-protester-debunked.html

[Bjornebye]

 

 

[Mudface]

15 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

 

 

That's fake, the original read 'Chabuddy G'.

[Bjornebye]

5 minutes ago, Mudface said:

That's fake, the original read 'Chabuddy G'.

 

 

[Rico1304]

Who’d have guessed it? 
 

 

[Red Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

Who’d have guessed it? 
 

 

 

Quote

Nearly half the prescriptions were for ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, according to the hacked data; another 30% were for zinc or azithromycin, two other medications which health authorities say are also ineffective in treating or preventing COVID-19 but which anti-vaccine groups

have been promoting.

 

I'm not trying to trash anything to do with ivermectin in the article but zinc is an essential mineral needed for the immune system to work properly. Like with vitamin D I'm not saying that it's going to defeat covid alone, but it might be a good idea to make sure you're at least not deficient in it with what's going on at the moment.

 

edit : zinc competes with iron for absorption too though so that should also be checked for people taking it. It can also affect copper levels as well so just focusing on zinc could be bad if those two aren't factored in.

[Strontium]

Given that one of the primary issues with covid (and its vaccines) is a propensity to cause blood clots, I would have thought it was an absolute no-brainer that a relatively safe and easily available anticoagulant like aspirin could help in that regard. I think sometimes people can't see the wood for all the trees. You don't need expensive double blind studies with placebos and bells and whistles. Covid causes blood clots - fact. Aspirin inhibits blood clots - fact. It's rudimentary medicine.

[Creator Supreme]

6 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Given that one of the primary issues with covid (and its vaccines) is a propensity to cause blood clots, I would have thought it was an absolute no-brainer that a relatively safe and easily available anticoagulant like aspirin could help in that regard. I think sometimes people can't see the wood for all the trees. You don't need expensive double blind studies with placebos and bells and whistles. Covid causes blood clots - fact. Aspirin inhibits blood clots - fact. It's rudimentary medicine.

Fair point well made. Must be remembered though that those with stomach issues (Ulcers, Gastritis, Hiatus Hernia etc) have to be careful to limit their aspirin intake. No argument that aspirin helps with clots, hell it's the first port of call for heart attacks (if the heart attack victim doesn't have GTN Spray).

[Rico1304]

7 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

 

I'm not trying to trash anything to do with ivermectin in the article but zinc is an essential mineral needed for the immune system to work properly. Like with vitamin D I'm not saying that it's going to defeat covid alone, but it might be a good idea to make sure you're at least not deficient in it with what's going on at the moment.

 

edit : zinc competes with iron for absorption too though so that should also be checked for people taking it. It can also affect copper levels as well so just focusing on zinc could be bad if those two aren't factored in.

You thinking it’s a good idea means nothing. Luckily.  

[Mudface]

From the RECOVERY trial- https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspirin-does-not-improve-survival-for-hospitalised-covid-19-patients/27872

 

Not sure whether it has any prophylactic effect against clotting if you take it regularly before getting infected, but I really wouldn't want to take aspirin just on the off chance it might help as it has some nasty side effects.

 

RECOVERY trial finds aspirin does not improve survival for hospitalised COVID-19 patients
 

The NIHR-supported RECOVERY trial has found that the anti-inflammatory drug aspirin - a treatment widely used to reduce blood clotting in other diseases - does not improve survival for patients who are hospitalised with COVID-19.

Patients with COVID-19 are at increased risk of blood clots forming in their blood vessels, particularly in the lungs. It was hoped that aspirin may help reduce blood clotting and therefore improve lung function and patient outcomes in severe cases of COVID-19.

The RECOVERY trial assessed the effects of aspirin in a cohort of nearly 15,000 hospitalised COVID-19 patients. A total of 7,351 patients were randomised to receive 150 mg aspirin once daily, with results compared against 7,541 patients who received standard care alone.

The researchers found no evidence that aspirin treatment reduced mortality in hospitalised patients with COVID-19. There was no significant difference in the primary endpoint of 28-day mortality (17% aspirin vs. 17% usual care). These results were consistent in all pre-specified subgroups of patients.

Patients randomised to the aspirin group had a slightly shorter duration of hospitalisation (median 8 days vs. 9 days) and a higher proportion were discharged from hospital alive within 28 days (75% vs. 74%). There was no significant difference in the proportion of patients who were not receiving invasive mechanical ventilation at baseline, who progressed to invasive mechanical ventilation or death (21% vs. 22%). For every 1000 patients treated with aspirin, approximately 6 more patients experienced a major bleeding event and approximately 6 fewer experienced a thromboembolic (clotting) event.

Dr William van’t Hoff, Chief Executive of the NIHR Clinical Research Network said:

“While it is disappointing that aspirin has not been found to improve mortality for hospitalised COVID-19 patients, the trial has again contributed important evidence about what does and what does not work, data that can be used around the world. We want to sincerely thank the thousands of patients who have taken part and the staff in the NHS and NIHR who have supported this vital study, continuing to advance the science around COVID-19.”

Peter Horby, Professor of Emerging Infectious Diseases in the Nuffield Department of Medicine, University of Oxford, and Joint Chief Investigator for the RECOVERY trial, said:

“The data show that in patients hospitalised with COVID-19, aspirin was not associated with reductions in 28-day mortality or in the risk of progressing to invasive mechanical ventilation or death. Although aspirin was associated with a small increase in the likelihood of being discharged alive this does not seem to be sufficient to justify its widespread use for patients hospitalised with COVID-19.”

Martin Landray, Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology at the Nuffield Department of Population Health, University of Oxford, and Joint Chief Investigator, said:

“There has been a strong suggestion that blood clotting may be responsible for deteriorating lung function and death in patients with severe COVID-19. Aspirin is inexpensive and widely used in other diseases to reduce the risk of blood clots so it is disappointing that it did not have a major impact for these patients. This is why large randomised trials are so important – to establish which treatments work and which do not.”

The results from the aspirin of the RECOVERY trial will be published on medRxiv and have been submitted to a peer-reviewed medical journal.

RECOVERY is jointly funded by NIHR and UKRI, while recruitment of participants is supported by the NIHR Clinical Research Network and devolved administrations across the United Kingdom. The trial was established as a randomised clinical trial to test a range of potential treatments for patients hospitalised with COVID-19.

Since it launched in March 2020, the study has produced evidence to establish some of the world’s first identified life saving treatments for COVID-19 - dexamethasone and tocilizumab.

 

As for supplements, it's amazing how many people seem willing to take them to 'help' their immune systems, with very little evidence that they're effective against Covid. Yet a vaccine which has masses of real world data proving how effective and safe it is, is somehow 'wrong' because it's not 'natural'.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Given that one of the primary issues with covid (and its vaccines) is a propensity to cause blood clots, I would have thought it was an absolute no-brainer that a relatively safe and easily available anticoagulant like aspirin could help in that regard. I think sometimes people can't see the wood for all the trees. You don't need expensive double blind studies with placebos and bells and whistles. Covid causes blood clots - fact. Aspirin inhibits blood clots - fact. It's rudimentary medicine.

Covid only causes blood clots? 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Mudface said:

From the RECOVERY trial- https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspirin-does-not-improve-survival-for-hospitalised-covid-19-patients/27872

 

Not sure whether it has any prophylactic effect against clotting if you take it regularly before getting infected, but I really wouldn't want to take aspirin just on the off chance it might help as it has some nasty side effects.

 

 

 

 

As for supplements, it's amazing how many people seem willing to take them to 'help' their immune systems, with very little evidence that they're effective against Covid. Yet a vaccine which has masses of real world data proving how effective and safe it is, is somehow 'wrong' because it's not 'natural'.

What's wrong with doing both? 

[Mudface]

2 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

What's wrong with doing both? 

Er, nothing. I was just pointing out that it's weird to latch onto the supplements and refuse the vaccine, given the medical evidence.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

1 hour ago, Mudface said:

From the RECOVERY trial- https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspirin-does-not-improve-survival-for-hospitalised-covid-19-patients/27872

 

Not sure whether it has any prophylactic effect against clotting if you take it regularly before getting infected, but I really wouldn't want to take aspirin just on the off chance it might help as it has some nasty side effects.

 

 

 

 

As for supplements, it's amazing how many people seem willing to take them to 'help' their immune systems, with very little evidence that they're effective against Covid. Yet a vaccine which has masses of real world data proving how effective and safe it is, is somehow 'wrong' because it's not 'natural'.

This is an interesting discussion from somebody who reports on big Pharma, is pro vax and takes apart all the data and reports on it. It covers what you mention in your last paragraph.
 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1VNcMVzwgdU2gXdbw7yqCL?si=USnUUOm3SQSHdazu-FnwjQ&dl_branch=1

[tokyojoe]

8 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Given that one of the primary issues with covid (and its vaccines) is a propensity to cause blood clots, I would have thought it was an absolute no-brainer that a relatively safe and easily available anticoagulant like aspirin could help in that regard. I think sometimes people can't see the wood for all the trees. You don't need expensive double blind studies with placebos and bells and whistles. Covid causes blood clots - fact. Aspirin inhibits blood clots - fact. It's rudimentary medicine.

Spot on. I had a DVT about 20 years ago. Started off on that warfarin stuff but the specialist put me on a daily 75mg aspirin.

 

So far, so good.

[Elite]

8 minutes ago, tokyojoe said:

Spot on. I had a DVT about 20 years ago. Started off on that warfarin stuff but the specialist put me on a daily 75mg aspirin.

 

So far, so good.

I gather you've been on Aspirin for 20 years then?

 

I did 6 months Xarelto and that's it when I had my blood clots. Coming off them was the scariest part as it was like a psychological safety blanket.

[RedKnight]

Didn't know we had so many bio-chemists and epidemiologists on the forum.

[Jose Jones]

3 hours ago, Mudface said:

From the RECOVERY trial- https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/recovery-trial-finds-aspirin-does-not-improve-survival-for-hospitalised-covid-19-patients/27872

 

Not sure whether it has any prophylactic effect against clotting if you take it regularly before getting infected, but I really wouldn't want to take aspirin just on the off chance it might help as it has some nasty side effects.

 

 

 

 

As for supplements, it's amazing how many people seem willing to take them to 'help' their immune systems, with very little evidence that they're effective against Covid. Yet a vaccine which has masses of real world data proving how effective and safe it is, is somehow 'wrong' because it's not 'natural'.

Nice use of bold there.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Mudface said:

Er, nothing. I was just pointing out that it's weird to latch onto the supplements and refuse the vaccine, given the medical evidence.

People who refuse the vaccine are weird and are a little bit cunty. I feel incredibly sorry for people who can't take it due to pre-existing conditions. They are not weirdo cunty. Hopefully supplements help them keep safe from the weird, little bit cunty people. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RedKnight said:

Didn't know we had so many bio-chemists and epidemiologists on the forum.

Facebook and Twitter have millions.