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Coronavirus


Bjornebye

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Just now, A Red said:

All the stats talking about the drop in deaths and hospitalisation due to vaccines leave you unconvinced. You are quite happy to wait until you are vaccinated and risk any bad pharma side effects, because, luckily for you, lots of other people have had them and are being the guinea pigs. 

 

Mental

There is more to it than the short term (which is been my point all along, if you would actually read what I am saying) 

 

Why is it mental? I don’t want to be a test case. And I’m perfectly within my rights to do so. 
 

Others did (Rico iirc) and I am grateful for those people in taking that chance, same with any other disease and virus. Just because I am not looking to do that, doesn’t make it mental, (millions of others will feel the same) and doesn’t change who I am. I choose a different way in getting through this, it’s working for me and for my family, just as your way is working for you and yours. It seems that the respect is only one way though. On here and the wider social media network. 
 

The word bullying was used, and a lot of this is. A lot of it unintentional. But there are tones of trying to stick everyone into boxes, when it’s not that simple. 
 

Trying to call people out for something they are not, isn’t on. There is information out there on both sides that is fascinating. The issue in all of this is who is deciding what is information and what is disinformation. The lines are blurred in the actual truth in all of this. People are benefiting from this on both sides financially. All other factors come into it rather than it just being about the vaccine, and that is before you bring the mental conspiracy theories into it. 
 

Acceptance, letting go of the need to worry about what others are doing. Some of you might want to try it some time. 
 

I think I’ve discussed enough on this thread about where I stand, and respected those that have been heavily effected by all of this, and I have re-iterated my gratitude in not being effected in a negative way, yet I still feel that’s not enough.
 

It’s not enough until I come on with my finally gotten badge of honour. I won’t be pressured into making a decision by anyone but those that need to influence. I have taken a lot of fantastic opinions from all sides on this thread and it’s all been taken into consideration. However this is the last post I’m making on it. I’ll still read, but anyone who has responded after this. I’m not responding. 

 

Stay safe and hope it all works out for you all. 

 

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1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

There is more to it than the short term (which is been my point all along, if you would actually read what I am saying) 

 

Why is it mental? I don’t want to be a test case. And I’m perfectly within my rights to do so. 
 

Others did (Rico iirc) and I am grateful for those people in taking that chance, same with any other disease and virus. Just because I am not looking to do that, doesn’t make it mental, (millions of others will feel the same) and doesn’t change who I am. I choose a different way in getting through this, it’s working for me and for my family, just as your way is working for you and yours. It seems that the respect is only one way though. On here and the wider social media network. 
 

The word bullying was used, and a lot of this is. A lot of it unintentional. But there are tones of trying to stick everyone into boxes, when it’s not that simple. 
 

Trying to call people out for something they are not, isn’t on. There is information out there on both sides that is fascinating. The issue in all of this is who is deciding what is information and what is disinformation. The lines are blurred in the actual truth in all of this. People are benefiting from this on both sides financially. All other factors come into it rather than it just being about the vaccine, and that is before you bring the mental conspiracy theories into it. 
 

Acceptance, letting go of the need to worry about what others are doing. Some of you might want to try it some time. 
 

I think I’ve discussed enough on this thread about where I stand, and respected those that have been heavily effected by all of this, and I have re-iterated my gratitude in not being effected in a negative way, yet I still feel that’s not enough.
 

It’s not enough until I come on with my finally gotten badge of honour. I won’t be pressured into making a decision by anyone but those that need to influence. I have taken a lot of fantastic opinions from all sides on this thread and it’s all been taken into consideration. However this is the last post I’m making on it. I’ll still read, but anyone who has responded after this. I’m not responding. 

 

Stay safe and hope it all works out for you all. 

 

Ok, fair enough you do what you have got to do, no bullying intended. Luckily for society as a whole you are in a minority. 

 

I would gently suggest though, for the sake of you and your family, that you take a look at the effect vaccines have had on covid deaths and serious illness hospitalisations.

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Why oh why do people getting on planes never moan about ‘big-aeronautics’ or getting in a lift ‘big-civil engineering’?  
 

For years on here people have been moaning we have no society, people don’t care about each other and the minute there’s a real life and real life-or-death chance to put your money where your mouth is there’s excuse after excuse. 
 

Can you call yourself a socialist and not get the jab?  You want me to pay more tax and you won’t get a vaccine that has been proven to save lives. Nah. 

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4 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think the UK experience of the virus/vaccine has put an end to the idea of a socialist future in the UK. There's no genuine widespread collective ideals any more, a lot of people on the hard left value their individual freedom more than the well being of the frail and vulnerable. It get dressed up as an anti vax, anti pharma narrative but fundamentally its the triumph of Thatcherism. 

Well it was going to be her or the Jews.  

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4 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

Yes but so does tax avoidance and shoplifting, the gain to the individual is > the cost to society so why not do it ? 

 

Of course, the system couldn't sustain everyone doing it, but you know the people at the top have crunched the numbers and they know enough people will get vaccinated. Because if they thought that sufficient numbers of people wouldn't get vaccinated voluntarily, there'd be serious calls for vaccines to be mandatory.

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23 minutes ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I think the UK experience of the virus/vaccine has put an end to the idea of a socialist future in the UK. There's no genuine widespread collective ideals any more, a lot of people on the hard left value their individual freedom more than the well being of the frail and vulnerable. It get dressed up as an anti vax, anti pharma narrative but fundamentally its the triumph of Thatcherism. 

What evidence do you have of 'the hard left' being anti vaxxers?

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1 minute ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I have just seen a report from the US where a lot of the people now getting sick and entering hospital have refused the vaccine. That's the point, if you don't get the vaccine you are almost invariably going to get sick and may have to go into hospital at the expense of somebody waiting for cancer treatment etc. That's your choice but you make that choice knowing you are placing your individual beliefs above the collective well being of society. 

 

I really don't think it's as clear cut as that, especially not when vaccination rates are high.

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12 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

The CDC are back to recommending that certain vaccinated people start wearing mask again indoors, in certain circumstances. This is to include vaccinated people who live with/have close contact with immunosuppressed people and who live with unvaccinated people, such as children under the age of 12.

 

They've also raised the travel threat for Israel to Level 3. Isn't Israel one of the highest vaccinated populations?

 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-3/coronavirus-israel

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8 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

I’ve heard and read it a few times from different sources. Also heard higher figures. That’s why I said apparently as I am not as convinced it’s that high myself, but it would be no surprise if it was. 
 

I understand people wanting and getting this vaccine. I understand why people don’t want it at all, and those who are waiting for a longer period of time to pass before getting it. 
 

What I don’t get myself is the massive trust in these big pharmaceuticals when you can see how much they have had to pay out in compensation over the years. That’s enough for me to delay getting it and  till respecting others by following mask guidelines etc, as and where required. Wait to see how the vaccine works long term (more than the 12 months so far) and how the virus plays then get it. There are still figures I’d like to see around blood types, health history, sex, weight, lifestyles etc.
 

Suppose one of the main questions I have is that what is it that it is making it overcome a specific persons immune system in the way it has? I don’t see why the issue is with wanting to know stuff like that before getting it.
 

With that information we then we can look at better ways in how we can look to improve the health of the world with that information, rather than just keep allowing people to get sick and throw medicines at everyone. Work with people to improve their own health & wellbeing and that would reduce the need to have a reliance on medicines, but still have the vaccines available because they will be needed by a large percentage of the worlds population. 


Gone off track a bit there.

 

I think it's a matter of public record that the EU paid $14.70 per dose for Pfizer, a reduced price because they funded it partly though BioNTech. The US government paid $19.50. You may have read it's $3k per shot (was that the number you mentioned?), but it sounds like conspiracy nonsense, a quick Google got me those numbers, I'd recalled $15 from some time ago. I realise not everybody is getting the same deals as the EU and US (equally I remember the UK maybe pay a bit more as they just wanted them guaranteed and the EU lost some advantage by negotiating), but honestly $3k per shot? It sounds like something your local drug dealer was selling last September. 

 

Just chucking an "apparently" in as your defence for that cost weakens your argument on the other stuff you are saying about your reasons for not taking the vaccine. There was no need to post it - you could have done a 5 second Google to realise it's not really an apparent cost. 

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1 hour ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I know its a cheap shot but he is Jeremy's brother after all. To be fair, there are nutters on both extremes but my point I don't think you can be an anti vaxxer and a socialist at the same time.

piers-corbyn-leading-an-anti-lockdown-protest-march-in-hyde-park-london-uk-carrying-an-our-movement-banner-stop-new-normal-anti-mask-anti-vax-2DE3XRP.jpg

Piers Corbyn is nominally leftish as a Labour councillor 20 years ago , but almost every other 'freedom' pushers on daytime tv or at these rallies appear to be Hopkins / Fox types or right wing columnists / radio presenters.

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Its an article from last year, but it does show the dangers of research in Corona Viruses. I am NOT saying that Sars Cov 2 came from the Wuhan lab, but clearly we have ‘big biotech’ having fun with viruses in labs and at the end of the day, we are all the guinea pigs if there’s a mis-hap. The only certainty is that the cutting edge pharmas with the mRNA solutions, get richer at the expense of governments ie tax payers.

 

https://www.propublica.org/article/near-misses-at-unc-chapel-hills-high-security-lab-illustrate-risk-of-accidents-with-coronaviruses

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