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12 minutes ago, Pidge said:

In my opinion these numbers will not bear up to real world events.  There will be a lot of hospitalisations and deaths, comparable to and probably exceeding the winter wave, and they will be comprised of people who are both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

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In my opinion the vaccine numbers will bear up to real world events. But it's not just the vaccine there is natural immunity from those who have been infected could help. If you've had covid and recovered then you possibly have some level of immunity from it for a period of time, maybe even a year. 

 

That doesn't stop it coming back year after year but it might act as a firebreak for a while considering most people haven't had their second shot more than a few days, weeks or months ago.

 

I hope I am right and I prefer to be optimistic on this. 

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know#How-natural-immunity-works-after-COVID-19-develops

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6 hours ago, TK421 said:

In my opinion these numbers will not bear up to real world events.  There will be a lot of hospitalisations and deaths, comparable to and probably exceeding the winter wave, and they will be comprised of people who are both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

So these figures aren't real world, yet they included 14,019 people. Yet you're throwing your weight behind the Gupta article? 

 

Let's say these 2 vaccines only 60% effective reducing hospitalisations as opposed the 90+ being claimed by PHE. Do you not think that's still pretty successful? 

 

You might be right that hospitalisations and deaths will remain as high as last year, but that'll be in a backdrop of society opening up. This is the aim here, vaccines replace lockdowns - both the Tories and the government scientists have said this countless times. Nobody is expecting complete cure or the extinction (if that's the right word) of the virus. 

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10 hours ago, TK421 said:

That's not true, I am taking ivermectin as prophylaxis.  I could just as easily have a go at you for not taking ivermectin, but I won't because I respect your bodily sovereignty.

 

Moreover, I have adjusted my behaviour and the number of people I mix with considerably in order to reduce risk.

 

Your post encapsulates what Skidfingers was referring to earlier.  It's needlessly divisive rhetoric.

 

Quite frankly, fuck this country and fuck normal.  

 

How did you get Ivermectin, was it from your GP or somewhere else? I genuinely think it's a great option to provide to people who are uncertain about taking these quickly developed vaccines.

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I was in and still am in the vaccine hesitancy camp despite having already had it. For me I couldn't trust the people delivering the news, I felt it was political and 100% I wouldn't take AZ under any circumstances. While hesitant I understood that mass hesitancy would get us no where, I was selfishly hoping by the time my turn came the numbers would be in a place where I didn't need to it take. As it happened my brother was able to get one in Pfizer from spares in a staff batch, on the spot I said do it. 

 

I don't see any problem at all with that stance, fear of something completely new and possibly dangerous is only natural. That take doesn't put me in the loons, I never encouraged anyone not to take it or spread disinformation. Equally these cunts who have been spouting bile for 18 months don't get to join me in my hesitancy camp because they seem to be working. They have own their poison. 

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2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

So these figures aren't real world, yet they included 14,019 people. Yet you're throwing your weight behind the Gupta article? 

 

Let's say these 2 vaccines only 60% effective reducing hospitalisations as opposed the 90+ being claimed by PHE. Do you not think that's still pretty successful? 

 

You might be right that hospitalisations and deaths will remain as high as last year, but that'll be in a backdrop of society opening up. This is the aim here, vaccines replace lockdowns - both the Tories and the government scientists have said this countless times. Nobody is expecting complete cure or the extinction (if that's the right word) of the virus. 

60% would be a remarkably impressive result, I'd say, but I don't think we'll get near that. 

 

I don't think we can vaccinate our way out of this because the virus is too agile and adept at mutating.  

 

What I think is happening right now is that Boris Johnson has eyed an opportunity to test whether the vaccines work, and he is allowing a third wave to take off. He is backed up by a compliant media and, at the moment, has the public on his side who are weary of the whole pandemic and want to be "normal" again. It is utterly unconscionable, but that's what I think is happening.

 

For me, the debate shouldn't be about ending all restrictions or "freedom day". The question should be, should we now re-enter lockdown?  But the government has engineered a situation where people are at ease with 8,000 infections per day. 

 

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7 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Really? I could have sworn that it has been proved that the Earth is round and has a gravitational pull.  

The earth isn’t round, it’s an oblate spheroid 

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13 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

Cunts. The absolute state of them. No masks either, too thick and arrogant to realise how much they are contributing to further restrictions themselves. 

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If I've been micro chipped I sincerely hope the Government enjoy Shit jokes, repeats of The sopranos, the noise of vomiting on a Sunday afternoon after I've tried and failed to drink a hangover off, oh and 8ball pool on my phone, because that's literally all I do, good luck farming that data.

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21 minutes ago, Ezekiel 25:17 said:

If I've been micro chipped I sincerely hope the Government enjoy Shit jokes, repeats of The sopranos, the noise of vomiting on a Sunday afternoon after I've tried and failed to drink a hangover off, oh and 8ball pool on my phone, because that's literally all I do, good luck farming that data.

They are probably all sat around baffled that you prefer 8ball pool to Snooker Stars. 

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1 hour ago, TK421 said:

Really? I could have sworn that it has been proved that the Earth is round and has a gravitational pull.  

In 25 years of publishing (biological) scientific papers, I have never used the words 'proof' or 'proved' once. I have regularly used words such as 'suggests', 'indicates', 'evidence', 'shows', 'signifies' etc but never 'proof'. Nothing is ever 'proven' in biological science, the explanation for any phenomena is what best fits the data available.

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I'm fine with anyone's decision not to take the vaccine in the way TK (welcome back, OG!), has expressed. He's not out on the streets attention seeking because his mummy and daddy didn't give him enough love, like these other cunts.

 

However, I do feel like vaccine hesitancy should also preclude activity in reopened society in the same way as vaccinated people. Doesn't sound like TK is too interested in pubs or restaurants anyway though.

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15 minutes ago, Jenson said:

In 25 years of publishing (biological) scientific papers, I have never used the words 'proof' or 'proved' once. I have regularly used words such as 'suggests', 'indicates', 'evidence', 'shows', 'signifies' etc but never 'proof'. Nothing is ever 'proven' in biological science, the explanation for any phenomena is what best fits the data available.

I defer to your experience. I don't want to get bogged down in semantics, all I'm saying is it's easy to "suggest" something based on preliminary analysis and I would prefer a higher level of certainty when so many lives are at stake.  

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6 minutes ago, Chris said:

However, I do feel like vaccine hesitancy should also preclude activity in reopened society in the same way as vaccinated people. Doesn't sound like TK is too interested in pubs or restaurants anyway though.

I think this will create yet another layer of inequality in society. I don't like the idea of people being judged on their vaccine history, it will create another layer of haves/have nots - particularly in a global context.

 

But fuck it, I don't want to go to the pub anyway. 

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5 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I defer to your experience. I don't want to get bogged down in semantics, all I'm saying is it's easy to "suggest" something based on preliminary analysis and I would prefer a higher level of certainty when so many lives are at stake.  

 

No worries, but I think your taking the word 'suggests' far too literally. The 96%/92% efficacy of the vaccines against the delta variant is calculated from data analysis of over 14,000 people. In terms of biological trials that's a pretty large number.

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3 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I think this will create yet another layer of inequality in society. I don't like the idea of people being judged on their vaccine history, it will create another layer of haves/have nots - particularly in a global context.

 

But fuck it, I don't want to go to the pub anyway. 

 

In a global context, for sure. In a localised context not so much. We're fast approaching the point where concerns over vaccine availability are redundant. When that is replaced by vaccine hesitancy, there will be decisions to make. I don't think it's that much of an issue in the UK, to be honest, where 9 in 10 will have had at least one shot by July 19 (if supply holds up). The US is a different matter, with more than a quarter of people swerving it. This limits your ability to  get immunity into the wider population.

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