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1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

You think? If you trialed 10,000 folks then gave a million shots and found a reaction in 1 in 50,000 that would be blind?

That's a fair point but many authorities clearly don't think enough was done to guarantee AZ's safety because it's been stopped in quite a few places. 

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1 minute ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

He’s right though Barry. It’s the same with any subject on here or any other social media platform. If you are indifferent in some of the debate then your lumped in with the loons. Whether that be anti-mask, anti-vaccine or a Tory. 
 

People labelling everybody when it’s far more trivial than that doesn’t help. Those that needed to be protected with the vaccine have had it and are protected. The vulnerable. Everybody has a choice to take it or not. For whatever reason that may be, loads have chosen to take it, loads haven’t. That’s life. Not all people (such as TK) are spreading hate and fear about it. 
 

I’m with TK, I’ve wore a mask as and when required. I appear to be less fearful than him, but I don’t judge him for being cautious, or anyone else’s decisions for that matter. I’ve done it my way, and I’ve managed to *touches wood* to avoid any infection or anyone around me being impacted. I’m extremely aware of how fortunate I have been these last 18 months compared to 100,000’s of families in the UK alone. Including some of our nearest and dearest on here. My decision comes from a good place, no intent to harm others but when an holding that opposite view, your character is questioned without people understanding you or your reasons. It’s pathetic. We are all guilty of it. But when fear is created and managed in the chaotic way it has been, it’s totally understandable.   
 

This isn’t going away, and this delay isn’t because of anyone on here, it’s because of the cunts in charge. Us dividing the debate only gets them more wriggle room to get away with even more than they already are. 
 

It’s crazy and extremely dangerous times out there and our focus should be on not letting these bastards off the hook for how they have managed this and cost to life. 
 

 

This.  Agreed a million times over, old bean.

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with @Barrington Womble because he simply isn't disagreeable.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

That's a fair point but many authorities clearly don't think enough was done to guarantee AZ's safety because it's been stopped in quite a few places. 

Personally I can't really speak to that as it was never in play here. So in that sense, for me there was.

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5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

That's a fair point but many authorities clearly don't think enough was done to guarantee AZ's safety because it's been stopped in quite a few places. 

Has it been stopped to appease the public and to prevent vaccine hesitancy? 

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6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Has it been stopped to appease the public and to prevent vaccine hesitancy? 

I don't know. That's the regulators in question you would have to ask. 

 

As I said, it's complex. Covid is terrible, vaccines will help us stop it. I don't like people who aren't getting it justifying it as a personal choice because this is a collective effort to stop a virus, everyone can help by getting a vaccine. 

 

But calling the vaccines "safe" and then having to pull one in many places? Not having much in-depth information on the safety of the components of the mRNA vaccines, something we're just now injecting in arms? It's scary, it just is.

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20 minutes ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

He’s right though Barry. It’s the same with any subject on here or any other social media platform. If you are indifferent in some of the debate then your lumped in with the loons. Whether that be anti-mask, anti-vaccine or a Tory. 
 

People labelling everybody when it’s far more trivial than that doesn’t help. Those that needed to be protected with the vaccine have had it and are protected. The vulnerable. Everybody has a choice to take it or not. For whatever reason that may be, loads have chosen to take it, loads haven’t. That’s life. Not all people (such as TK) are spreading hate and fear about it. 
 

I’m with TK, I’ve wore a mask as and when required. I appear to be less fearful than him, but I don’t judge him for being cautious, or anyone else’s decisions for that matter. I’ve done it my way, and I’ve managed to *touches wood* to avoid any infection or anyone around me being impacted. I’m extremely aware of how fortunate I have been these last 18 months compared to 100,000’s of families in the UK alone. Including some of our nearest and dearest on here. My decision comes from a good place, no intent to harm others but when an holding that opposite view, your character is questioned without people understanding you or your reasons. It’s pathetic. We are all guilty of it. But when fear is created and managed in the chaotic way it has been, it’s totally understandable.   
 

This isn’t going away, and this delay isn’t because of anyone on here, it’s because of the cunts in charge. Us dividing the debate only gets them more wriggle room to get away with even more than they already are. 
 

It’s crazy and extremely dangerous times out there and our focus should be on not letting these bastards off the hook for how they have managed this and cost to life. 
 

I have said it's more than fair for someone not to have the vaccine. However if you don't want it and won't take it, it does litterally mean you are anti vax. Equally the reality of the situation is we're going to live with covid for years, maybe forever. So if we want life to head towards what it was previously, don't be surprised if a prerequisite to doing some things will be to have some type of covid passport, be that the vaccine, recent negative test or proving you've had the virus within the last number of days. 

 

Like with your mask thing. It's fine not to want to wear one, as long as you do where required. It's equally fine for you to decide to vote for a different politician in the next election if you've been unhappy with how your current representatives have represented you. 

 

I would prefer us not to have a covid passport going forward, but I'm happy if it's a measure to help get us out of this mess. Just like I don't like lockdowns, however we have to just get on with them as they are/were a requirement of the time. In fact I think it's a pretty reasonable point of view to think this whole thing would have been much better had we locked down earlier, controlled our borders more and had an effective track & trace. I wish we had locked down earlier, yet I would prefer us not to have needed lockdowns. 

 

So I honestly don't give a fuck if TK doesn't have his vaccine, but neither will I give a fuck if next season it means he can't go the match and I can. I want life to resume. 

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I understand why people are hesitant over vaccines, but there's a limit. If someone says they're concerned over, say, the speed it's been developed. That's fair enough, and there's ways those concerns can be addressed. But if someone is going on about microchips and all that bollocks, they can get fucked. 

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5 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Here's why, despite a small recent spike, things aren't going to get anywhere near as bad as they were:

 

 

Is it just me or is that slide poorly laid out?  Shouldn’t the ‘one dose’ and ‘two dose’ be below the ‘not vaccinated’?  

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21 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I have said it's more than fair for someone not to have the vaccine. However if you don't want it and won't take it, it does litterally mean you are anti vax. Equally the reality of the situation is we're going to live with covid for years, maybe forever. So if we want life to head towards what it was previously, don't be surprised if a prerequisite to doing some things will be to have some type of covid passport, be that the vaccine, recent negative test or proving you've had the virus within the last number of days. 

 

Like with your mask thing. It's fine not to want to wear one, as long as you do where required. It's equally fine for you to decide to vote for a different politician in the next election if you've been unhappy with how your current representatives have represented you. 

 

I would prefer us not to have a covid passport going forward, but I'm happy if it's a measure to help get us out of this mess. Just like I don't like lockdowns, however we have to just get on with them as they are/were a requirement of the time. In fact I think it's a pretty reasonable point of view to think this whole thing would have been much better had we locked down earlier, controlled our borders more and had an effective track & trace. I wish we had locked down earlier, yet I would prefer us not to have needed lockdowns. 

 

So I honestly don't give a fuck if TK doesn't have his vaccine, but neither will I give a fuck if next season it means he can't go the match and I can. I want life to resume. 

It’s one less OOT at them ground though. Every cloud and that. 

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I fucking hate Hancock the snide, arrogant, out of his depth little worm.

 

He deserves to be in the dock not at the despatch box and he's wearing a shit eating grin like he's a fucking saviour of Blighty.

 

He's using technicalities and weasle word to justify fucking up, yetafuckinggain.

 

He's either so thick that he believes this or is mentally ill and needs to be removed as he a clear danger to the continuing health of the UK.

 

More will die because of his hubris and stupidity.

 

Cunt.

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9 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Here's why, despite a small recent spike, things aren't going to get anywhere near as bad as they were:

 

 

Unfortunately I think these numbers will turn out to be fantasy when the third wave takes off in earnest.

 

We saw this with the second wave.  It began by infecting younger people as they were the ones mixing more. Remember when the media were blaming the 18-30s for partying too much and "starting the second wave"? 

 

Then it spread to older people and the deaths skyrocketed. I think the same thing will happen again. 

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1 minute ago, TK421 said:

Unfortunately I think these numbers will turn out to be fantasy when the third wave takes off in earnest.

 

We saw this with the second wave.  It began by infecting younger people as they were the ones mixing more. Remember when the media were blaming the 18-30s for partying too much and "starting the second wave"? 

 

Then it spread to older people and the deaths skyrocketed. I think the same thing will happen again. 

 

The main difference between the second wave and a potential third wave is that nobody was vaccinated at the start of the second wave though?

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5 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I fucking hate Hancock the snide, arrogant, out of his depth little worm.

 

He deserves to be in the dock not at the despatch box and he's wearing a shit eating grin like he's a fucking saviour of Blighty.

 

He's using technicalities and weasle word to justify fucking up, yetafuckinggain.

 

He's either so thick that he believes this or his mentally ill and needs to be removed as he a clear danger to the continuing health of the UK.

 

More will die because of his hubris and stupidity.

 

Cunt.

None of them give a fuck Bruce. The agenda for this whole thing has never been about saving lives, just making sure and NHS shitshow didn't play out on TV. 

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24 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

None of them give a fuck Bruce. The agenda for this whole thing has never been about saving lives, just making sure and NHS shitshow didn't play out on TV. 

 

Yeah, I know, I'm just venting whilst I watch the fucker twist words to fit a narrative whilst being openly contemptuous of MP's.

 

Just been asked about shortages and just said 'you should be happy that the vaccination roll out has been a success' as if that's in any way an answer.

 

It's bleak somebody so lacking in any ability, or nous, whatsoever has made it to where he his.

 

A real sign that they are in their masters image.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, TK421 said:

I mean in terms of effectiveness in preventing infections, illness and death. I don't think they will perform very well. 

That is an even worse reason than being afraid of complications (which is somewhat understandable), especially for a fella who has been hanging his hat on mask's efficacy. In hindsight alot of numbers were thrown around there, many were proven wrong. I remember hearing how if we saved one person by all wearing masks it would be worth it.

How well do you think they should perform? The post above your last showed 96% efficacy (Pfizer) and 92% (AZ) in doing exactly that. Or is this something where we can't follow the science?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

The post above your last showed 96% efficacy (Pfizer) and 92% (AZ) in doing exactly that. Or is this something where we can't follow the science?

Nope, the post above did not show or prove anything. If you look closely the word used is "suggests". Which is the word they often use in these articles. I could suggest a lot of things, I could suggest that I'll be dating Michelle Pfeiffer this weekend. Doesn't mean it'll happen. 

 

So when they throw these numbers around like 98% this and 92% that, I take them with a pinch of salt. 

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2 minutes ago, TK421 said:

 

So when they throw these numbers around like 98% this and 92% that, I take them with a pinch of salt. 

That would of course make sense if instead of suggesting anything about that white gold - someone was "suggesting either had 40% efficacy.

Which, btw, would still save quite a few lives don't you think?

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