Coronavirus

[Bjornebye]

8 minutes ago, SasaS said:

And I never said they protect the wearer. I agree they probably reduce trasmission somewhat, but since most people dont wear masks with proper filters, intuitively I still think it is not a particularly significant reduction. Distancing is probably much better protection.

If a mask reduces it by 0.00000001% then everybody should wear one. Distancing yes it is better protection, hence lockdowns. 

[TheHowieLama]

Nothing, including the vaccine prevents you from getting it. Everything you do can mitigate your chance of getting it.

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Nothing, including the vaccine prevents you from getting it. Everything you do can mitigate your chance of getting it.

Unfortunately its the "know it alls" that actually don't have a fucking clue that have made this a lot worse than it should have been. 

[Bruce Spanner]

1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

My unscientific evidence would be the complete opposite. In Spain the schools didn't close, or not for any prolonged period of time anyway. The bars are open, inside and outside. People are meeting each other. I'd argue that some (most) of this hasn't been a great idea, but that's how it is. Post last May (up until which point most countries had a strict lockdown) the UK seems to have had much stricter lockdown rules. Yet they've had 50,000 more deaths.

 

Masks must be playing a pretty big role. Isn't the age with which you have to wear one 11 in the UK? Pretty sure it's six here. 

 

Obviously the government in the UK has been spectacularly fucking shit throughout most of the handling of the pandemic, but it has been in many other countries. Here there has been a passing of the buck between state and regional governments for about six months leading to complete stalemate. Germans are flying to Malaga whilst people from Cordoba aren't actually allowed to go there. It's all a fucking mess, and here without the light at the end of the tunnel of the vaccine. I would be surprised if I got the vaccine this year, for example. But it seems France has been similarly shite. But they've had 30k fewer deaths than the UK as well. How the fuck are the numbers so bad for the UK?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Timing on decisions and failing to get the messaging right are, I think, the two big ones in a almost slapstick overall response.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Section_31 said:

I do genuinely suspect the mask thing had been used to just cram people into shops.

 

When this all kicked off you'd have to queue for about 20 minutes to get into morrissons but once you were in it was bliss, like supermarket sweep with about 10 people in there.

 

When makes became a thing they just let everyone in, which given that I suspect masks aren't that protective was probably daft, but of course increases the shop's coffers.

 

I think masks also changed behaviour too. Before, people used to give each other a wide berth, even cross the street to avoid you, now when they've got masks on they don't, like they think they're wearing a space suit.. 

 

I really do strongly suspect they're just a psychological crutch. The idea of having to wear a mask in a coffee shop or pub between the door and your table, then again  between your table and the bog or bar, seems almost comically stupid and pointless. 

personally i think people get used to living with the virus and naturally become relaxed (if that is the right work) with it all. 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, SasaS said:

And I never said they protect the wearer. I agree they probably reduce trasmission somewhat, but since most people dont wear masks with proper filters, intuitively I still think it is not a particularly significant reduction. Distancing is probably much better protection.

Even a small reduction justifies it. Personally I think time spent in an infected environment plays even more part than distance. So (1)duration spent + (2)keeping distance + (3)shield +(4)masks is my order of priority. If (1) and (2) aren't practical, (3) is preferred and/or (4). 

[Mudface]

15 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

Timing on decisions and failing to get the messaging right are, I think, the two big ones in a almost slapstick overall response.

Definitely, considering we had several weeks notice each time of what was happening on the continent before it happened here, it's been an absolute disaster.

 

As for messaging, it was generally OK until Cummings fucked it all up and then they started with that tier rubbish. Sturgeon has been pretty good here, she's been clear about what's going to happen and explained things pretty well. It also helps that she's fronted the briefings consistently and not just when there's some good news.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Mudface said:

Definitely, considering we had several weeks notice each time of what was happening on the continent before it happened here, it's been an absolute disaster.

 

As for messaging, it was generally OK until Cummings fucked it all up and then they started with that tier rubbish. Sturgeon has been pretty good here, she's been clear about what's going to happen and explained things pretty well. It also helps that she's fronted the briefings consistently and not just when there's some good news.

Amazingly the DM and its ilk slag her off on a daily basis despite the fact she continually shows actual leadership while our pm stumbles around pissed not knowing what day it is but they all love him because he brushes his hair with a bostik tube and says shit like "getting things done" when all him and his cabinet have done is rob and kill people at the same time right under our fucking noses. 

[TheHowieLama]

9 minutes ago, Mudface said:

 

As for messaging, it was generally OK 

Any message that is rooted in "this is for the good of other people" is fucked. Everyone is a selfish cunt to some degree. Some (alot) are three degrees.

All they had to do at the outset was to suggest a mask mitigates the wearers chance of infection (which it does) and the discussion would be completely different.

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Amazingly the DM and its ilk slag her off on a daily basis despite the fact she continually shows actual leadership while our pm stumbles around pissed not knowing what day it is but they all love him because he brushes his hair with a bostik tube and says shit like "getting things done" when all him and his cabinet have done is rob and kill people at the same time right under our fucking noses. 

It's weird, I've got (right-leaning) friends down south who absolutely detest her- more so than Corbyn- even though she has absolutely no bearing on their lives whatsoever and never will have. It's like hating the Finnish PM. They've obviously swallowed the Mail/ Telegraph KoolAid; they're terrified that a dull but competent, slightly left of centre politician will show up what an horrendous bunch of cunts the Tories are.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Mudface said:

It's weird, I've got (right-leaning) friends down south who absolutely detest her- more so than Corbyn- even though she has absolutely no bearing on their lives whatsoever and never will have. It's like hating the Finnish PM. They've obviously swallowed the Mail/ Telegraph KoolAid; they're terrified that a dull but competent, slightly left of centre politician will show up what an horrendous bunch of cunts the Tories are.

Yep. Tories are like Evertonians. Point out the truth and they call you "woke" "wall-pusher" its the same thick reaction everytime. 

 

 

 

Interestingly the BBC are reporting that there were zero covid deaths in London for the first time in donkeys. Nothing to do with Johnson chatting absolute shite over the weekend. Nope, no media spin for him. Nothing to see here etc etc. 

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

Getting my first jab tonight, third time of asking.

[SasaS]

Looking at yesterday's numbers internationally, countries such as Hungary, Serbia, Chile, that are near the top of the vaccination table are still running relatively high numbers.

Hungary is the third best vaccinated European country after the UK and Serbia (at 20%, 7% fully) and at the same time the worst affected by Covid at the moment (with Czechs and Poles). Interestingly, all of them have a high share of Chinese vaccines (not sure about Chile though, but the chart shows both Sinopharm and Sinovac are used there).

Chile is ahead of the UK in the per capita vaccines (52 per 100;  34% vaccinated, as many as 17% fully vaccinated). And they are still running 6 or 7 times as many cases and deaths, adjusted for population.

[Tj hooker]

Had mine Saturday felt fine Saturday night but Yesterday was a wash out my arm felt it had been hit with a lump hammer and no appetite at all,  today totally different appetite coming back and hardy any aching at all . 

I'm still glad I've had it and if you told me before that 2 days feeling a bit off is the price of getting rid of this disease then I'll gladly take that. 

[Section_31]

18 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Looking at yesterday's numbers internationally, countries such as Hungary, Serbia, Chile, that are near the top of the vaccination table are still running relatively high numbers.

Hungary is the third best vaccinated European country after the UK and Serbia (at 20%, 7% fully) and at the same time the worst affected by Covid at the moment (with Czechs and Poles). Interestingly, all of them have a high share of Chinese vaccines (not sure about Chile though, but the chart shows both Sinopharm and Sinovac are used there).

Chile is ahead of the UK in the per capita vaccines (52 per 100;  34% vaccinated, as many as 17% fully vaccinated). And they are still running 6 or 7 times as many cases and deaths, adjusted for population.

What's hospitalizations and deaths like there? That's the true litmus.

[Jairzinho]

36 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Looking at yesterday's numbers internationally, countries such as Hungary, Serbia, Chile, that are near the top of the vaccination table are still running relatively high numbers.

Hungary is the third best vaccinated European country after the UK and Serbia (at 20%, 7% fully) and at the same time the worst affected by Covid at the moment (with Czechs and Poles). Interestingly, all of them have a high share of Chinese vaccines (not sure about Chile though, but the chart shows both Sinopharm and Sinovac are used there).

Chile is ahead of the UK in the per capita vaccines (52 per 100;  34% vaccinated, as many as 17% fully vaccinated). And they are still running 6 or 7 times as many cases and deaths, adjusted for population.

Chile is using Sinovac and Pfizer.

 

I'd imagine being anywhere remotely close to Brazil must have a fairly detrimental effect on numbers, and having almost half the population in one overcrowded city can't help.

 

I think the timing was especially bad for Chile too as they're just finishing holiday season and people fucked off to Miami or wherever for summer.

 

This is one of the reasons that it's so imperative that Spain and Italy sort out vaccines in the next few months because both countries are going to reopen everything for summer. They have to, Spain especially, or they'd have a third of the country on the dole. 

[Megadrive Man]

3 hours ago, Rick Sanchez C-137 said:

I understand people being completely done with lockdown. It's infuriating, depressing, stressful and horrible at times.

 

Kicking off about wearing a mask for 10 minutes doing shopping though? I honestly think people whining about this are redirecting anger from lockdowns because how the fuck can wearing a tiny mask for a few minutes upset an adult human?

 

Agreed. Id like to see us adopt this permanently for people that are ill, similarly to how they do in Asia. It's common courtesy to try and limit passing on a virus to vulnerable people.

[SasaS]

17 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

What's hospitalizations and deaths like there? That's the true litmus.

 

Hungary I think is at record level with deaths now, overall about the level of UK, Serbia is growing, but still in double figures, overall not so bad, Chile was about half of UK in total deaths, now seems to be at 80 to 90 on average, which looks to be stable for the last few months (that would be about 300 in UK). I don't see hospitalization and ICU numbers, but what is listed seems to be in line with cases.

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Mudface said:

It's weird, I've got (right-leaning) friends down south who absolutely detest her- more so than Corbyn- even though she has absolutely no bearing on their lives whatsoever and never will have. It's like hating the Finnish PM. They've obviously swallowed the Mail/ Telegraph KoolAid; they're terrified that a dull but competent, slightly left of centre politician will show up what an horrendous bunch of cunts the Tories are.

This appear to me to be mostly to do with Scottish independence. I've never even been to Scotland (genuinely) but I can definitely get why any Scot would want independence. There was a discussion on a YouTube video a few months ago, they were discussing how Brexit was a demonstration of democracy in action as it was voted for in a time of good spirits. My understanding is the Scottish First Minister really wants Scottish independence?

 

For Scots to be wanting independence during a pandemic is truly vile, according to the same people who voted for Brexit. So anyone who either didn't vote for Brexit (possibly because they were happy with how things were), meaning that more people didn't actually specifically say "Yes" to ritish independence from Europe is a sign of great democracy? But not being given the chance to say "Yes" to Scottish independence from Britain is also a demonstration of democracy? That's the English mentality and it makes me cringe at the fact that I'm English. The exact words used were "learn to suck it up". That's the truth behind democracy.

 

When I travelled at a younger age, of all the nationalities that I encountered the English were by far the least friendly, the least trustworthy and the most selfish. I far preferred spending time with Irish and Scots.

[Guest]

Aren't schoolkids now being given testing kits to take home now? I wonder how many of those are actually being processed...

[Strontium]

4 hours ago, Section_31 said:

What are the latest stats around masks? Surely they can't be that great given the scale of the subsequent waves.

 

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

Yeah nothing to do with the Czech Republic having a population density of 139 per square km compared to Swedens 24.4. Nope, no need for facts here. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-03-02/Czechia-s-mask-reluctance-contributing-to-record-infection-rate-Yj7LxItoRi/index.html

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Yeah nothing to do with the Czech Republic having a population density of 139 per square km compared to Swedens 24.4. Nope, no need for facts here. 

A graph tells a story. A story is made up.

 

In the past week, Czechia recorded the world's highest per-capita COVID-19 infection rate – 11 times higher than neighboring Germany. Exactly one year since detecting its first case, the relatively small European nation of 10.7 million people has seen its death toll more than double since mid-December, to more 20,700, prompting a warning from Prime Minister Andrej Babis that the healthcare system faces collapse.

The surge is partly due to the spread of new variants of the virus. But there has been strong criticism of the government's handling of the pandemic, particularly its lockdown management; while the Czech people do not have a good recent record of obeying virus prevention rules.

 

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Data scientist Petr Ludwig helped advise the Czechia government on its face-mask policy. He told CGTN Europe's Global Business program people's behavior had changed since the initial outbreak a year ago. 

"During the summer, people started to believe some conspiracy theories and misinformation that masks are somehow dangerous," he said. "The government stopped the mask mandate during the summer because we had very good numbers."

"At the end of the summer, our numbers went back [up] again and the infection rate started to grow," he added.

 

 

A man wears a paper mask with the words 'stupid people' on during protests over social distancing measures during the winter in Czechia. /AP/Petr David Josek

 

In response to those spiraling numbers, the government has launched its toughest restrictions yet – a three-week stay-at-home order and full school closures. But Babis has resisted calls to shut down industry, saying it would cause job losses. Factories and workplaces will stay open – with mandatory COVID-19 tests for companies with at least 50 employees.

Deputy Prime Minister Jan Hamacek, leader of the junior government party the Social Democrats, said without controls on companies "we will end up exactly where we are now" in a month's time. 

Robin Sin, a regional vaccination coordinator and crisis medicine expert also said non-critical industry should be shut down temporarily. He called the government's decision to limit movement between districts "completely insufficient."

 

 

A strict three-week lockdown has begun in Czechia, including limits on regional travel. /Jaroslav Ozana/CTK via AP

 

But Czechia's leaders have been keen to deflect the blame elsewhere. Babis says the European Union's slow vaccine approval and procurement has hindered his country's vaccination program. On Sunday, President Milos Zeman took to national television: "After consulting the prime minister, I have sent a letter to [Russia's President] Vladimir Putin, asking him for a supply of the Sputnik vaccine."

"Information from the Russian embassy suggests it could arrive in the next few days," he said, adding that Prague is also considering procuring China's Sinopharm vaccine.

Both the Sputnik V and Sinopharm jabs are yet to be approved by the EU regulator, the European Medicines Agency (EMA).

 

 

Neighboring Slovakia has also turned to Russia, ordering 2 million doses of the Sputnik V vaccine. /Frantisek Ivan/TASR via AP

 

Babis took a more direct tone in an interview with CNN Prima: "We cannot wait for the EMA," he said. 

"SUKL [the Czechia drugs authority] must examine the documentation and if they approve it [Sputnik V], the Health Ministry has to issue an exemption … and then, whoever is interested can get inoculated."

But data scientist Ludwig told CGTN Europe that while there had been delays in the EU roll-out, the government was also to blame for the hold-ups. "We only have between 3 and 4 percent of people vaccinated," he said. 

"We are waiting for new doses, but with those doses that have been delivered, the government was slow in delivering those vaccines around the country and delivering them to our patients."

Source(s): Reuters ,AFP ,AP

 

 

[Strontium]

11 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Yeah nothing to do with the Czech Republic having a population density of 139 per square km compared to Swedens 24.4. Nope, no need for facts here. 

 

Facts are great, when they're not misused to paint a false picture. Sweden has a lot of empty countryside which skews things considerably.

 

87% of Sweden's population lives in urban areas, where population densities are comparable to, or even higher than, other cities. The urban population in the Czech Republic is only 74%.

 

Stockholm population density = 4,175 people per square km. Prague = 2,700. Malmo = 4,049. Ostrava = 1,300.

 

So now that we know (a) Swedes are living in closer proximity to each other than Czechs and (b) Czechs are wearing masks much more than Swedes.