Coronavirus

[AngryOfTuebrook]

13 hours ago, Grinch said:

Flip flopping between what is and what isn’t safe.  

This is like watching snooker in black & white and complaining that they're flip flopping about what the grey balls are worth.

[Grinch]

3 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No. We should be looking at medical evidence, assessing the risks, mitigating the risks and then carrying out the public health interventions that best balance the risks; y'know, the way scientists do.

 

Or do you think that scientists are ignoring evidence of harmful impacts?

Cool, once they’re done with this experiment.  I’ll be happy for my daughter to have her safe, effective vaccine.  Just like the new born ones she’s had.

[Grinch]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

This is like watching snooker in black & white and complaining that they're flip flopping about what the grey balls are worth.

No it’s not.

[Baltar]

India comes off the red list! Proof if ever that travel restrictions are based on bullshit and political motivations. What on earth can justify India of all countries being shifted to the Amber list? Does Boris watch the news?

[AngryOfTuebrook]

3 minutes ago, Grinch said:

Cool, once they’re done with this experiment.  I’ll be happy for my daughter to have her safe, effective vaccine.  Just like the new born ones she’s had.

How are you going to keep her safe in the meantime? Because all the evidence says that serious side-effects are far less likely and far less severe than catching Covid.

[Grinch]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

How are you going to keep her safe in the meantime? Because all the evidence says that serious side-effects are far less likely and far less severe than catching Covid.

You can’t know this yet.  You have no idea on the long term effects of either.

 

 

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Grinch said:

You can’t know this yet.  You have no idea on the long term effects of either.

 

 

What evidence would convince you?  When that evidence is presented how will you decide if it’s trustworthy?

 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

5 minutes ago, Grinch said:

No it’s not.

It is a bit. If you're looking for anything to be guaranteed 100% safe in all cases or 100% unsafe in all cases, you're looking at things completely the wrong way. 

The virus is still new and so are the vaccines. The vaccines have been tested as rigorously as any vaccines (the programmes were accelerated, but not at the expense of cutting corners). All medical interventions get continuously reviewed, so (as is happening now with the vaccines) new info comes to light to suggest that, in certain circumstances, they may be more or less effective or more or less safe than earlier evidence suggested. To interpret these sort of reviews as "flip flopping" is just daft.

[AngryOfTuebrook]

4 minutes ago, Grinch said:

You can’t know this yet.  You have no idea on the long term effects of either.

 

 

Death is pretty long term; I'm fairly sure I've seen evidence of that.

[Grinch]

1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Death is pretty long term; I'm fairly sure I've seen evidence of that.

Luckily my girls are fit and healthy so they won’t be dying of COVID.

[Skidfingers McGonical]

21 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

No. We should be looking at medical evidence, assessing the risks, mitigating the risks and then carrying out the public health interventions that best balance the risks; y'know, the way scientists do.

 

Or do you think that scientists are ignoring evidence of harmful impacts?

I don’t think the scientist would be the ones withholding that sort of info. 
 

Lobbyists in the other hand.

[Dr Nowt]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-healthy-man-42-from-southport-who-rejected-vaccine-dies-of-covid
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/05/fifth-of-covid-hospital-admissions-are-aged-18-34-says-nhs-england

[Rico1304]

Twitter nutters started a #leaveourkidsalone and it’s been hijacked by the actual kids saying ‘fuck you, I’m getting the jab’. 

[CapeRed]

48 minutes ago, Grinch said:

You can’t know this yet.  You have no idea on the long term effects of either.

 

 

I know the short term effect of Covid 19 can be death. So when weighed against the possible side effects of the jab I will take my chances.

[CapeRed]

2 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

The British government wouldn't do anything like that.

The difference is if you get caught in the UK you resign your position and if a criminal offence has been commited you will be prosecuted. They have been trying to get Jacob Zuma into court for 11 years now. In the period from 2009 to 2019  59 billion Rand (3 billion quid) has been stolen through various fraud schemes with the help of government ministers. Not 1 prosecution yet and no loss of a position in spite of a.mountain of evidence. Daily maverick.co.za

[Mudface]

4 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

The difference is if you get caught in the UK you resign your position and if a criminal offence has been commited you will be prosecuted. They have been trying to get Jacob Zuma into court for 11 years now. In the period from 2009 to 2019  59 billion Rand (3 billion quid) has been stolen through various fraud schemes with the help of government ministers. Not 1 prosecution yet and no loss of a position in spite of a.mountain of evidence. Daily maverick.co.za

Pfft. Not any more.

[redinblack]

9 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

The difference is if you get caught in the UK you resign your position and if a criminal offence has been commited you will be prosecuted. 

In the UK you would be found to have "contravened the spirit of the law" but "not broken the law" with "any monies unwittingly not declared repaid" and "the matter closed". Something like that.

[Rico1304]

So all the grift after the event is easily identified by journalists and lawyers, but actually making the vaccine magnetic or 5G and organising the doctors, virologists, epidemiologists is completely perfect. Mmm

[Bjornebye]

Not aiming these at anyone but they did make me laugh

 

 

[Gnasher]

Ha, 

 

 

[Manny]

1 hour ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Two women (one early 30’s the other in her late 50’s) have both been diagnosed with vertigo since having the vaccine. In and out of hospital for the last two months for the younger one. 
 

My sister in law lost her mum late last year (not COVID related) and the Dr who treated her pushed for a third COVID test post death (after two negatives) to try and get a COVID tick in the box, because they “couldn’t be 100% sure”. All because the hospitals get more money for a COVID result. She works in the NHS. 

 

She’d had a fall and banged her head and caused damage to her brain. She was also a full blown alcoholic and her body gave up. 

So, it’s not all as clear as day as those pushing their agenda and fears onto everyone else make out. But you are wrong for finding these things out and managing your own life (that has fuck all impact and to do with anyone else who has had the vaccine) 

Fuck’s sake, I dropped out of this thread and that bastard fisherman Rico dragged me back in. 
 

Everyone is free to decide what they choose to do in life. What they do doesn’t impact me so why would what I do impact on them? Because they are scared and have become massively self righteous. 
 

Pity some don’t show this level of concern for society when it comes to everyday life, like homelessness, the economic that always bails out those who fuck it up or the atrocities of “War” we get involved in. This has become an idealogy. But I only see it online, the real world tells me something different. People are actually sound about it all, and nobody seems to be judging anyone. Maybe because there is less chance of someone being a stand up cunt without their keyboard. 
 

Who knows. 

 

 

Nah, I'm sorry, I'm jumping in on this. And I'm going to end up all sanctimonious which I fucking hate.

 

My sister in law is a consultant obstetrician and the only reason they'd put COVID down if not 100% sure is to err on the side of caution on behalf of the vulnerable and isolate the individual involved. Perhaps they would get paid more, but that certainly isn't the only reason.

 

I've had the vaccine. Two doses of Pfizer. I'm fine. My wife had the vaccine, two doses of Pfizer, she's fine. She's still breastfeeding our daughter, who's also fine (well she never fucking sleeps but that's not vaccine-related). My mum (Pfizer), both sisters (AZ), bro-in-laws (Pfizer), sis-in-law and parents-in-law (Pfizer) are all the same - two doses, zero side effects outside of a sore arm for 24 hours. So if we're going down to anecdotal level, that's ten people, all fully vaccinated with no side effects whatsoever. Five times as many "none whatsoevers" as vertigo diagnoses.

 

I got vaccinated partially for selfish reasons - I'm 36 and pretty fit and healthy so was always fairly confident I'd be alright if I caught it, but with a vaccination I'm pretty certain I'll be nowhere near an ICU. I also genuinely did it for selfless reasons (I'm less likely to pass it on to others who are more vulnerable) and social reasons (if everyone took the attitude of "wait and see" then we'd be nowhere). I spent four years working for the NIHR and I know how rigorous the clinical trials process is, and how dedicated the people involved are - even in commercial development.

 

Vaccines work well at an individual level, but are more effective at the population level. Yeah, all the vulnerable are now double-jabbed but it's not 100% protection for them; if everyone around them is vaccinated though that breaks more infection chains and insulates them better. So yeah, you can think that it's just a decision that affects you, but it isn't. And this isn't me blaming you for anything specific as an individual, but you're contributing to a problem which you have the power to solve.

 

There are possible side effects, yeah. The data shows that and the anecdotes show it. The trial data, real world data and hundreds of thousands of other anecdotes show even more conclusively though just how rare they are and how effective the overall vaccine is at individual and population level. You're free to do what you want and that absolutely should be the case, but I'm also free to find that decision as being one without perspective and which contributes to a major problem, which is disappointing to me.

[Rico1304]

2 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Two women (one early 30’s the other in her late 50’s) have both been diagnosed with vertigo since having the vaccine. In and out of hospital for the last two months for the younger one. 
 

My sister in law lost her mum late last year (not COVID related) and the Dr who treated her pushed for a third COVID test post death (after two negatives) to try and get a COVID tick in the box, because they “couldn’t be 100% sure”. All because the hospitals get more money for a COVID result. She works in the NHS. 

 

She’d had a fall and banged her head and caused damage to her brain. She was also a full blown alcoholic and her body gave up. 

So, it’s not all as clear as day as those pushing their agenda and fears onto everyone else make out. But you are wrong for finding these things out and managing your own life (that has fuck all impact and to do with anyone else who has had the vaccine) 

Fuck’s sake, I dropped out of this thread and that bastard fisherman Rico dragged me back in. 
 

Everyone is free to decide what they choose to do in life. What they do doesn’t impact me so why would what I do impact on them? Because they are scared and have become massively self righteous. 
 

Pity some don’t show this level of concern for society when it comes to everyday life, like homelessness, the economic that always bails out those who fuck it up or the atrocities of “War” we get involved in. This has become an idealogy. But I only see it online, the real world tells me something different. People are actually sound about it all, and nobody seems to be judging anyone. Maybe because there is less chance of someone being a stand up cunt without their keyboard. 
 

Who knows. 

 

 

This is the fucking definition of showing concern for society! Is it nearly 200k deaths in the U.K. now? 
 

Anecdote doesn’t equal data

correlation doesn’t equal causation or we’d win every game after I went for a lucky wee. 
 

idiot.  

[Dr Nowt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-58080116

[Rico1304]

28 minutes ago, Manny said:

Everyone is free to decide what they choose to do in life. What they do doesn’t impact me so why would what I do impact on them? Because they are scared and have become massively self righteous. 
 

Pity some don’t show this level of concern for society when it comes to everyday life, like homelessness, the economic that always bails out those who fuck it up or the atrocities of “War” we get involved in

These two paragraphs really do follow each other. 
 

Edit.  I realise it’s not Manny but Skids

[Skidfingers McGonical]

2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

And you call people self-righteous for wanting others to get a vaccine that has already shown a dramatic drop in deaths from a pandemic thats killed 4 million people in less than 2 years then go and post something like that? 

 

Sorry mr eco warrior, peace activist, shelter provider absolute stand up guy in real life. Pure hypocrisy there Skids, you're the same as anyone you're just pushing the opposite agenda. How do you know what people who post on here are sating in real life? In a thread about coronavirus people will talk about (guess what) coronavirus. In conversations with friends, neighbours, family when the topic of coronavirus comes up I'm pretty sure people posting in this thread will say the same thing they are saying in here be it pro vax, anti-vax, making stuff up or dis-interested. The fact people are talking about it less in what you call "real life" is because the vast majority are trying to return to a normal level of existence instead of covid dominating everyday life. 

 

Do what you want Skids, as a human being I'd prefer you to get the jab because I believe it will make you less vulnerable to getting really ill or dying but don't expect a pat on the back when you decide against it. 

I’m not calling people self righteous for wanting people to get it. I’m calling the way the message is being pushed (using here and Twitter as an example) that is what is self righteous (by some)

 

You seem to feel my post was aimed at people like you, but it wasn’t. However you must do some of what I’ve said as you have massively missed the point and played the man and not the ball. But that’s ok. It’s an opinion. 
 

I’m not doing what I want, there are restrictions in place, so I am abiding by the rules and respecting peoples opinions and not letting anything I can’t affect get in the way of me continuing with my life in the way I have done for the past 18 months. 
 

Who says I’m looking for a pat on the back. I’m not. I definitely don’t need a pat on the back from anyone on here about decisions I make. 
 

I appreciate your wanting me to get because you are not a cunt (I always knew you loved me Stig) but I don’t feel any more vulnerable than I did when It first started. I have wished everyone to be safe and well throughout this, so the feeling has and is reciprocated.