Coronavirus

[Sugar Ape]

6 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

I know of 5 roles in 1 company that were available for hire in the UK and have all been off-shored and I understand that's the tip of the ice berg. I also know of 2 banks who are looking to offshore anyone who's role has proved to be not needed in London during the crisis. So nick Ferrari all you like, I'm watching it happen right now. 

So the people who have had their roles offshored, would they have saved their jobs if they came back into the office this week? Wfh has been increasingly happening anyway and this has only accelerated it. Let’s look at it this way:

 

You’re an employer who had 100 people working for you in an office before Covid hit. Since March they’ve all been working from home. Either they:

 

A: Weren’t as productive meaning that you wouldn’t be looking to offshore their jobs because it’s been proven you need them to work in the office to get the best out of them.

 

But if you were inclined to offshore people you’d just hire an office abroad wouldn’t you?

 

B: The staff have been just as much or more productive at home meaning even if they went back into the office they wouldn’t save their jobs if you were minded to offshore people. 
 

Either way I don’t think going into an office would save you. 

[Barrington Womble]

12 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

When you say offshore you mean engaging a separate company to mange that personnel or that the candidate can be from anywhere?

No I mean moving where the head count belongs in their organisation. 

[Sugar Ape]

15 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Wouldn't be worried so much that working remotely will lead to jobs being offshored, they're two very different concepts. Working remotely will just lead to more companies having no buildings. An HQ above a butcher shop in Guernsey, everyone else working in their own homes, a sales team who can drive to clients if needs be.

 

This was a trend anyway, covid hasn't caused it. It's got its benefits for smaller towns and cities too. Instead of having everyone based in London or Manchester you could have smaller flexi offices in a Chester or a Bury, cutting down on commuting and giving smaller towns a boost.

 

I reckon outsourcing has had its day. My old place did it with a south African call centre and it was comedy gold, they were telling customers to shut up and stuff.

Same. It seemed at its height about ten years ago, I know quite a few people who were getting seconded to India for six months training call centres and stuff, think It’s calmed down a lot now. 

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

No I mean moving where the head count belongs in their organisation. 

Well then that doesn't prevent local candidates from taking that work - if in fact there is a substantial shift there.

[Anubis]

19 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I reckon outsourcing has had its day. My old place did it with a south African call centre and it was comedy gold, they were telling customers to shut up and stuff.

South Africans are pretty aggressive though. Probably not the bast place for customer service. Indians, on the other hand, remain polite in the face of adversity. You want Indians for your customer service, and South Africans to be deployed as your security and staff loss prevention.

[Barrington Womble]

5 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

So the people who have had their roles offshored, would they have saved their jobs if they came back into the office this week? Wfh has been increasingly happening anyway and this has only accelerated it. Let’s look at it this way:

 

You’re an employer who had 100 people working for you in an office before Covid hit. Since March they’ve all been working from home. Either they:

 

A: Weren’t as productive meaning that you wouldn’t be looking to offshore their jobs because it’s been proven you need them to work in the office to get the best out of them.

 

But if you were inclined to offshore people you’d just hire an office abroad wouldn’t you?

 

B: The staff have been just as much or more productive at home meaning even if they went back into the office they wouldn’t save their jobs if you were minded to offshore people. 
 

Either way I don’t think going into an office would save you. 

In my industry, I'm yet to find anyone who used to go into the office regularly who believes they're more effective from home full time. However that doesn't matter. If you can hire someone for a quarter of the wages in another country after the UK person has illustrated how it can be from home to 90%, that will do. Personally I think people are fighting for their jobs often without knowing it. Imo, people should be doing everything they can to illustrate why their job is needed in this country, which pretty much why it needs to exist in the office. It's not something I'm too interested in discussing endlessly because for me it is not a hypothetical discussion, as I said, I'm seeing it happen before my eyes here and now. 

[Sugar Ape]

Diplomatic immunity

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Well then that doesn't prevent local candidates from taking that work - if in fact there is a substantial shift there.

Sorry, not quite sure I understand? So they'll take headcount from high cost locations and move them.to low cost locations on salaries at 25% of the original cost. I'm not sure too many people could afford to work for 25% of their current salary competing with people in places like India, the Philippines, Bangladesh. 

[Anubis]

So, the Tories made us a service industry economy, and now they’re outsourcing that abroad.

 

When do we go back to villages made up of wattle and daub huts, and crop tithes to our Lords?

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, Anubis said:

So, the Tories made us a service industry economy, and now they’re outsourcing that abroad.

 

When do we go back to villages made up of wattle and daub huts, and crop tithes to our Lords?

The country has been fucked by that for years. 

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

Sorry, not quite sure I understand? So they'll take headcount from high cost locations and move them.to low cost locations on salaries at 25% of the original cost. I'm not sure too many people could afford to work for 25% of their current salary competing with people in places like India, the Philippines, Bangladesh. 

Assuming we are talking about outward, face to face positions for the most part, whether that would be previously in meeting or going forward in a teleconference. As has been said anything that was seen to be acceptable has already gone offshore.

 

[Sugar Ape]

1 minute ago, The Gaul said:

In my industry, I'm yet to find anyone who used to go into the office regularly who believes they're more effective from home full time. However that doesn't matter. If you can hire someone for a quarter of the wages in another country after the UK person has illustrated how it can be from home to 90%, that will do. Personally I think people are fighting for their jobs often without knowing it. Imo, people should be doing everything they can to illustrate why their job is needed in this country, which pretty much why it needs to exist in the office. It's not something I'm too interested in discussing endlessly because for me it is not a hypothetical discussion, as I said, I'm seeing it happen before my eyes here and now. 

I’m about to get a chippy and pour a bevy so I’m not into a big discussion right now either! But I think we’re getting away big time from presenteeism. I don’t agree there will be a massive shift to offshoring more than there has been, though some companies undoubtedly will. 
 

I think it could bring about an end in some sectors to the ‘London wage’ though. This would be a good opportunity to spread jobs more evenly around the country though I doubt the political will is there to make that happen. 

[TheHowieLama]

7 minutes ago, Anubis said:

So, the Tories made us a service industry economy, and now they’re outsourcing that abroad.

 

When do we go back to villages made up of wattle and daub huts, and crop tithes to our Lords?

In the words of the great Ivanka Trump:

"Find Something New".

[Section_31]

10 minutes ago, Anubis said:

South Africans are pretty aggressive though. Probably not the bast place for customer service. Indians, on the other hand, remain polite in the face of adversity. You want Indians for your customer service, and South Africans to be deployed as your security and staff loss prevention.

Should have a red Indian call centre instead.

 

"You're through to O2, where the land, sky, and mountains, welcome you like a disappointed grandfather, for you have not renewed your contract and brought yet more shame to the White man."

[Barrington Womble]

10 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

I’m about to get a chippy and pour a bevy so I’m not into a big discussion right now either! But I think we’re getting away big time from presenteeism. I don’t agree there will be a massive shift to offshoring more than there has been, though some companies undoubtedly will. 
 

I think it could bring about an end in some sectors to the ‘London wage’ though. This would be a good opportunity to spread jobs more evenly around the country though I doubt the political will is there to make that happen. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on the main point. As I say for me it's not hypothetical. 

 

As for the political will, I reckon that will be to try and get things back to exactly how it was before the pandemic as quickly as possible. It's why they 1st floated the furlough scheme and I think it came as a genuine shock to them that we all weren't back to normal by the end of the 1st 3 months. They're shitting themselves because they can see the whole pack of cards about to come down and they know how business will react and behave - like we're seeing with redundancies as furlough requires employer contributions. 

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Assuming we are talking about outward, face to face positions for the most part, whether that would be previously in meeting or going forward in a teleconference. As has been said anything that was seen to be acceptable has already gone offshore.

 

So again, we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'm seeing otherwise. 

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

So again, we'll have to agree to disagree, because I'm seeing otherwise. 

Certainly hope it doesn't affect you directly. Maybe makes you more valuable.

 

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Certainly hope it doesn't affect you directly. Maybe makes you more valuable.

 

It absolutely will impact me I think. To what extent I'll just have to wait and see. I run my own company and the main lockdown was pretty shite, but that was expected. It's picking up now, but I can see the impact it's having on my clients, so 100% it'll change, I just can be sure how much. 

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

It absolutely will impact me I think. To what extent I'll just have to wait and see. I run my own company and the main lockdown was pretty shite, but that was expected. It's picking up now, but I can see the impact it's having on my clients, so 100% it'll change, I just can be sure how much. 

Got it now - you provide consult/service to local based officentric clients. Yea man, might go through some changes.

[Barrington Womble]

37 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Got it now - you provide consult/service to local based officentric clients. Yea man, might go through some changes.

Yeah, pretty much. I know people internationally, but I think whatever happens here will happen there, they're all high cost locations. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Why have the pubs got to be shut so schools can open whats the link between the two.

[sir roger]

14 hours ago, Anubis said:

South Africans are pretty aggressive though. Probably not the bast place for customer service. Indians, on the other hand, remain polite in the face of adversity. You want Indians for your customer service, and South Africans to be deployed as your security and staff loss prevention.

Barclays had a call centre in the Philippines and they were very nice people but over half of the complaints to the UK centres were about their service. Surely saving a few bob isnt worth the hassle. I once spoke to a guy over there who was struggling changing a customers address and it transpired nobody had ever explained to him what a postcode was.

[sir roger]

24 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Why have the pubs got to be shut so schools can open whats the link between the two.

We were sneaking into the pub over the road with coats over our uniform from 15 upwards.

[slimjim75]

On 10/04/2020 at 00:04, Captain Turdseye said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Edit: Double Post. 
 

I work as a HGV planner and in March I had to go back on 4 on 4 off shift to cover for a colleague who due to having leukemia the year before had to stay off. He's now back Monday but where do I stand legally about notice given by my employer to me about putting me back on Monday to Friday.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Barclays had a call centre in the Philippines and they were very nice people but over half of the complaints to the UK centres were about their service. Surely saving a few bob isnt worth the hassle. I once spoke to a guy over there who was struggling changing a customers address and it transpired nobody had ever explained to him what a postcode was.

Yep, I worked for the IT dept at Vodafone and left about 15 years ago. Moving offshore was becoming a big thing for all the mobile companies - IT outsourcing to India, call centres moving abroad. Vodafone's customer service centres went through the floor.

 

It really didn't help that within a couple of years of all that happening, the CEO was booted out of the company for taking bribes from foreign IT sourcing companies which ensured companies were getting the work, even though the systems that they produced were genuinely shite. There was a part of the system where a person on the phone would activate a number using a PC and after entering the mobile number a screen would pop up asking to verify the number entered. The only button available to press was OK, there was no way to go back and change it. I couldn't help but laugh at the ingenuity of it, but I doubt it was intended.

 

I have no idea who handles their customer services anymore but I am pretty sure they have gone back to in-house IT solutions.