Coronavirus

[Spy Bee]

2 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Ah, so the Johnson Government which have never lied or done anything remotely dodgy are checking out the numbers which make them look very bad

All above board, that

Nothing to see, move on

Tempted to say Sheeple but that would be a bit gauche

It was brought to their attention by an independent source. 

 

Do you really think we should be including people who have died months after they had Covid, from something not related to Covid?

 

The average life expectancy in a care home is 11 months, so you would hardly expect all these people to be living years post-Covid.

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Spy Bee said:

The average life expectancy in a care home is 11 months, so you would hardly expect all these people to be living years post-Covid.

 

Can't remember if I posted it here, but the average age of covid deaths in Scotland was actually higher than the average life expectancy in Scotland. 

[Spy Bee]

1 minute ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Can't remember if I posted it here, but the average age of covid deaths in Scotland was actually higher than the average life expectancy in Scotland. 

That's true globally I believe.

[Bjornebye]

Red Phoenix After 12 Bottles of Becks FC in da hoooooouse

[Spy Bee]

14 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Red Phoenix After 12 Bottles of Becks FC in da hoooooouse

So, you haven't got a rational argument?

 

Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland don't record deaths in the same way PHE do. Before Covid, there was no pre-existing way of measuring Covid deaths (because Covid deaths didn't exist), so lots of different measures have been used globally. It makes sense to compare apples with apples. It also makes sense to only count people who died of Covid as people who died of Covid.

 

When you have an argument, I'll be happy to discuss it, but at the moment, you're just throwing stones at the moon.

 

 

[Bjornebye]

6 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

So, you haven't got a rational argument?

 

Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland don't record deaths in the same way PHE do. Before Covid, there was no pre-existing way of measuring Covid deaths (because Covid deaths didn't exist), so lots of different measures have been used globally. It makes sense to compare apples with apples. It also makes sense to only count people who died of Covid as people who died of Covid.

 

When you have an argument, I'll be happy to discuss it, but at the moment, you're just throwing stones at the moon.

 

 

Do you believe that if George Floyd had been killed in the same way as he was but in this country that his death would be recorded as a result of Covid? 

[Spy Bee]

7 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Do you believe that if George Floyd had been killed in the same way as he was but in this country that his death would be recorded as a result of Covid? 

If he died and he had previously had a positive test, then yes. That seems to be what has been happening. Cross referencing deaths, against any previous positive test.

 

Why else would PHE deaths be 10 times that of hospital deaths?

 

 

[Bjornebye]

Oh right ok. 

[TheHowieLama]

57 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

I think you've just peaked. Going to be hard to beat this.

Nice to go out on top.

[Barrington Womble]

On 02/08/2020 at 06:56, Bobby Hundreds said:

What actually is the link between being asked to wear a mask and it being an infringement on your freedom. Surely a mask historically is worn by people fighting for freedom and acts of independent thought. Especially with facial recognition why would the government have some agenda to mask everybody up. Its Law here to wear a motorcycle helmet, its a safety issue. Undoubtedly there's some who claim it should be personal choice but ultimately its accepted. How fucking battered is your mind from Internet conspiracy to think wearing a face mask during a pandemic is an act of oppression.

I see the argument about wearing masks about as strong as those who complain about having to wear clothes in public. Yet the very group of people who are complaining about how masks violate their human rights, would ridicule naturalists. In civilised society, we have decided wearing clothes is required. We have laws against people not wearing clothes. And that's just because we don't like it. Wearing masks is thought to save lives, so as a civilised society in certain setting we are being expected to wear masks. It makes no sense to complain about that and not complain about wearing clothes in general 

37 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

It was brought to their attention by an independent source. 

 

Do you really think we should be including people who have died months after they had Covid, from something not related to Covid?

 

The average life expectancy in a care home is 11 months, so you would hardly expect all these people to be living years post-Covid.

And the government also decided not to include anyone in the covid numbers who hadn't been tested positive even though they died of the symptoms. So numbers are not accurate. It would seem very likely they're on th low side of reality. 

[Mudface]

10 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

And the government also decided not to include anyone in the covid numbers who hadn't been tested positive even though they died of the symptoms. So numbers are not accurate. It would seem very likely they're on th low side of reality. 

Yep- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/analysis-why-englands-covid-19-death-toll-is-wrong-but-not-by-much

 

It makes a good talking point for conspiracy theorists and right wing tabloid commentators to trot out to try and downplay things though.

 

In Scotland there's a cut off point of 28 days, so although there have been no deaths reported in the official figures here for the last couple of weeks, at least 4 people died last week after being in intensive care for over 4 weeks. 

[Bjornebye]

Imagine being someone so eager to downplay it though. Desperate,so so desperate to be seen to be right despite it being a 'global pandemic' that hundreds of thousands have died from and has probably changed the future for good. 

[Mudface]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Imagine being someone so eager to downplay it though. Desperate,so so desperate to be seen to be right despite it being a 'global pandemic' that hundreds of thousands have died from and has probably changed the future for good. 

I really don't get what the point is. Daily Mail columnists sure, they want to turn it into a culture war, raise their profile and keep the gravy train flowing. On here to a few hundred active posters? Strange.

[littletedwest]

1 hour ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Can't remember if I posted it here, but the average age of covid deaths in Scotland was actually higher than the average life expectancy in Scotland. 

37?

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

It's been discussed at length in this thread for months, that in many jurisdictions, if a person dies with coronavirus, they are recorded as a covid death, whether or not it actually killed them.

So no proof then to back up this claim that George Floyds death would have been marked down as a Covid death in the UK? Zero. None. 

[Strontium]

1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

So no proof then to back up this claim that George Floyds death would have been marked down as a Covid death in the UK? Zero. None. 

 

Everything I write is always supported by evidence. You should know this by now.

 

All deaths where people test positive for covid are counted as covid deaths, as the NHS page makes clear.

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

 

This section contains information on deaths of patients who have died in hospitals in England and had either tested positive for COVID-19 or where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.

 

I don't know why you're suddenly querying the truths we've been working with in this thread for months.

[Bjornebye]

1 minute ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Everything I write is always supported by evidence. You should know this by now.

 

All deaths where people test positive for covid are counted as covid deaths, as the NHS page makes clear.

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

 

 

 

 

I don't know why you're suddenly querying the truths we've been working with in this thread for months.

No it isn't.

 

Thanks. 

[Mudface]

To be fair, there must be tens of thousands of OAPs in care homes that get choked to death by police every year, the fact they coincidentally had Covid-19 is neither here nor there.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Spy Bee said:

PHE figures don't look at what is on your death certificate according to reports.

Where are you getting these reports from? Button Moon?

 

The stats I have seen clearly state that if a death mentions Covid-19 on the death certificate then it's recorded as a Covid related death. Just because someone is Covid-19 positive when they die, it's not automatically recorded as a Covid-19 caused death.

 

What the Govt are doing right now in terms of checking how deaths are recorded is quite simple - they're trying to find a way of a) wriggling out of what has come before and b) trying to cover up what happens in the future.

 

The Brazilian president stopped recording the number of daily deaths. Are you suggesting that they are justified in that decision because perhaps most of their deaths are probably not Covid-19 related either?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Everything I write is always supported by evidence. You should know this by now.

 

All deaths where people test positive for covid are counted as covid deaths, as the NHS page makes clear.

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

 

 

 

 

I don't know why you're suddenly querying the truths we've been working with in this thread for months.

This is not evidence supporting your claim at all. If a person dies because a truck hits them, they are not going to write on the certificate that this is a suspected Covid-19 caused or underlying caused death. If someone dies through respiratory failure, this can be caused by a number things, so they would likely say this is possibly related to Covid-19 and the stat would NOT be added until a positive result is ascertained. Suspected and confirmed.

 

To suggest that a death caused by gunshot is put down to a Covid-19 death because them's the rules is fanciful to the point of being obscene.

[Strontium]

Just now, Fluter in Dakota said:

This is not evidence supporting your claim at all. If a person dies because a truck hits them, they are not going to write on the certificate that this is a suspected Covid-19 caused or underlying caused death.

 

It clearly states on the NHS website that the figures include two groups of people: those who died and tested positive for covid, and those where covid was mentioned on the death certificate despite no positive test.

 

If you think the NHS are wrong about their own counting methods, take it up with them, not me.

[Bjornebye]

If I get eaten by an anaconda in my sleep but had Covid then the anaconda is a free man and can see the pacific. 

[Strontium]

Whose anaconda is it?

[Bjornebye]

Just now, Stront19m Dog™ said:

Whose anaconda is it?

Tonys Ma's obviously 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

It clearly states on the NHS website that the figures include two groups of people: those who died and tested positive for covid, and those where covid was mentioned on the death certificate despite no positive test.

 

If you think the NHS are wrong about their own counting methods, take it up with them, not me.

Yes it does state that Covid is test post-mortem, but show me where it says that a post-mortem positive result is recorded as a Covid-19 caused/underlying caused death and not simply a death where Covid-19 has tested positive?