Coronavirus

[YorkshireRed]

13 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

We need a rethink on how we work. Hours and shift patterns, what we actually think about life. Disclaimer Covid isn't a good thing I'll just say that now this is devastating  the loss of life and the economic cost. There's no positive to the virus.

 

But.. I've never had this much time off in my entire life unless you count pre school and isolation from other people aside I've loved not having the entire structure of my life dictated by work it's genuinely the first time in my life I've felt kind of free , mentally physically I feel fucking great, forget the shiny shit money buys, it's the time it can buy you that's what makes someone rich. People born into money must have zero clue about how life is, they are furloughed from the day they are born with the option of working and chasing dreams knowing there's a golden safety net under them all the time. How liberating must that be, you don't have the fear of falling.

 

My sister's, cousins and friends are spending amazing time with their kids, some of them barely see their kids at all now they are making memories, making things, going for walks of course the sunshine has helped. 

 

Of course we've got to work but time is the most precious commodity and that should come at a cost, 8+Hrs a day the 40 hour a week seems arbitrary. Quality of life takes a back seat to "just be a worker bee" you can relax when your old and too fucked to do anything else. We are more than cattle.  My grandad retired at 65 and was dead at 67, left school fought in a war then worked 12 hours a day pretty much until he died. Cattle! With Automation and climate change it seems fucking obscene that governments carrying on as usual with no forward thinking for better change. 

 

I've no idea how a UBI would work in terms of financing or some other way to reduce peoples hours and let them smell the roses. We've all lost people we love some very young, time is everything it's why I believe 100 percent a real living wage should be the absolute minimum hourly rate. Personally I think it would be a fucking disgrace to go back to the politics and systems to the way things were pre covid. Do we have a single forward thinker in British politics that doesn't want the status quo with slight adjustments here and there.

 

I believe in a mixed economy, I don't particularly like ideology, it's about balance. This country is totally off balance as human beings we are totally off balance. We know what's important really, usually when it's too late we are reminded of it.

100% right. To go back to, essentially, what we’ve had before when we’ve been gifted (in horrendous circumstances for many I know) this time to reflect and see/feel another way would be unbearably sad. If this doesn’t change things, then nothing will. Not in my lifetime anyway. 
 

 

[Stouffer]

On 30/05/2020 at 12:02, S.i.t.M aka The Boring One™ said:

@StoufferIn what capacity do you work? A driving school I work/worked with has looked at the wording of safe protocol and has come to the conclusion that as it's not possible to maintain 2 metres - and you can return to work when safe social distancing is possible - that it is OK to return to work as it is not possible to maintain 2 metres. Interpretation is you can work as it's not possible to maintain 2 metres but that does not mean you can not work. He intends to send instructors back on the roads on 8th June, same date as dentist return to work. 

 

I can't see this is right and if it is in violation of the law, I intend to report him as it appears reckless. 

 

This is also open to anyone else who may understand 'the social distancing laws'. 

I'm a safety advisor pal so was just trying to adapt the recent HSE guidance to your line of work. 

 

With regards to social distancing "laws"; I'm not sure if there's been any legislation passed and the HSE guidance is vague at best.

[Spy Bee]

On 30/05/2020 at 12:02, S.i.t.M aka The Boring One™ said:

@StoufferIn what capacity do you work? A driving school I work/worked with has looked at the wording of safe protocol and has come to the conclusion that as it's not possible to maintain 2 metres - and you can return to work when safe social distancing is possible - that it is OK to return to work as it is not possible to maintain 2 metres. Interpretation is you can work as it's not possible to maintain 2 metres but that does not mean you can not work. He intends to send instructors back on the roads on 8th June, same date as dentist return to work. 

 

I can't see this is right and if it is in violation of the law, I intend to report him as it appears reckless. 

 

This is also open to anyone else who may understand 'the social distancing laws'. 

In Italy or Spain (can't recall) where 2m is not possible a mask is compulsory. I suspect we'll follow that route.

[Mudface]

25 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

We need a rethink on how we work. Hours and shift patterns, what we actually think about life. Disclaimer Covid isn't a good thing I'll just say that now this is devastating  the loss of life and the economic cost. There's no positive to the virus.

 

But.. I've never had this much time off in my entire life unless you count pre school and isolation from other people aside I've loved not having the entire structure of my life dictated by work it's genuinely the first time in my life I've felt kind of free , mentally physically I feel fucking great, forget the shiny shit money buys, it's the time it can buy you that's what makes someone rich. People born into money must have zero clue about how life is, they are furloughed from the day they are born with the option of working and chasing dreams knowing there's a golden safety net under them all the time. How liberating must that be, you don't have the fear of falling.

 

My sister's, cousins and friends are spending amazing time with their kids, some of them barely see their kids at all now they are making memories, making things, going for walks of course the sunshine has helped. 

 

Of course we've got to work but time is the most precious commodity and that should come at a cost, 8+Hrs a day the 40 hour a week seems arbitrary. Quality of life takes a back seat to "just be a worker bee" you can relax when your old and too fucked to do anything else. We are more than cattle.  My grandad retired at 65 and was dead at 67, left school fought in a war then worked 12 hours a day pretty much until he died. Cattle! With Automation and climate change it seems fucking obscene that governments carrying on as usual with no forward thinking for better change. 

 

I've no idea how a UBI would work in terms of financing or some other way to reduce peoples hours and let them smell the roses. We've all lost people we love some very young, time is everything it's why I believe 100 percent a real living wage should be the absolute minimum hourly rate. Personally I think it would be a fucking disgrace to go back to the politics and systems to the way things were pre covid. Do we have a single forward thinker in British politics that doesn't want the status quo with slight adjustments here and there.

 

I believe in a mixed economy, I don't particularly like ideology, it's about balance. This country is totally off balance as human beings we are totally off balance. We know what's important really, usually when it's too late we are reminded of it.

In the meantime, there's this-

 

 

It seems 60K deaths, cock up after cock up, lie after lie and the Cummings cuntathon just isn't enough for some people. And we've got Brexit on the horizon and the conversion of this shithole into Hong Kong-on-Thames.

[Barrington Womble]

38 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

We need a rethink on how we work. Hours and shift patterns, what we actually think about life. Disclaimer Covid isn't a good thing I'll just say that now this is devastating  the loss of life and the economic cost. There's no positive to the virus.

 

But.. I've never had this much time off in my entire life unless you count pre school and isolation from other people aside I've loved not having the entire structure of my life dictated by work it's genuinely the first time in my life I've felt kind of free , mentally physically I feel fucking great, forget the shiny shit money buys, it's the time it can buy you that's what makes someone rich. People born into money must have zero clue about how life is, they are furloughed from the day they are born with the option of working and chasing dreams knowing there's a golden safety net under them all the time. How liberating must that be, you don't have the fear of falling.

 

My sister's, cousins and friends are spending amazing time with their kids, some of them barely see their kids at all now they are making memories, making things, going for walks of course the sunshine has helped. 

 

Of course we've got to work but time is the most precious commodity and that should come at a cost, 8+Hrs a day the 40 hour a week seems arbitrary. Quality of life takes a back seat to "just be a worker bee" you can relax when your old and too fucked to do anything else. We are more than cattle.  My grandad retired at 65 and was dead at 67, left school fought in a war then worked 12 hours a day pretty much until he died. Cattle! With Automation and climate change it seems fucking obscene that governments carrying on as usual with no forward thinking for better change. 

 

I've no idea how a UBI would work in terms of financing or some other way to reduce peoples hours and let them smell the roses. We've all lost people we love some very young, time is everything it's why I believe 100 percent a real living wage should be the absolute minimum hourly rate. Personally I think it would be a fucking disgrace to go back to the politics and systems to the way things were pre covid. Do we have a single forward thinker in British politics that doesn't want the status quo with slight adjustments here and there.

 

I believe in a mixed economy, I don't particularly like ideology, it's about balance. This country is totally off balance as human beings we are totally off balance. We know what's important really, usually when it's too late we are reminded of it.

Mate, that's all well and good, but until we alter the imbalance between property prices and income, people will continue in the main to work all the hours we can with both parents. 

10 minutes ago, Mudface said:

In the meantime, there's this-

 

 

It seems 60K deaths, cock up after cock up, lie after lie and the Cummings cuntathon just isn't enough for some people. And we've got Brexit on the horizon and the conversion of this shithole into Hong Kong-on-Thames.

Jesus fucking Christ. What a country we live in. So the Tories went up after the Cummings thing? We are so fuck. 

[Anubis]

Quote

 

More than 200 travel and hospitality businesses have joined a campaign urging the government to overturn its planned 14-day quarantine for arrivals into the UK, PA Media reports.

The group of major hotels, travel companies and restaurateurs claim the policy is “unworkable” and are calling for air bridges to be created which enable people to travel - without being quarantined - between countries where the risk of being infected by coronavirus is deemed to be low.

George Morgan-Grenville, the chief executive of tour operator Red Savannah, who is leading the campaign, said:

This is not just a group of company bosses complaining, but employees from bottom to top calling for the quarantine plans to be quashed.

The extent of their pain is deeply worrying for our economy and our country.

More than 200 businesses have signed the letter to the home secretory, Priti Patel.

 

George Morgan-Grenville said:

 

Fuck 60,000 dead people, a few more can die because I need to replenish my supply of fine cigars.

[Anubis]

What can possibly go wrong.

 

Quote

England's schools begin to reopen as lockdown eases across UK

Morning and welcome to the UK liveblog on the coronavirus. 

Children in England in reception, year 1 and year 6 can start returning to the classroom today, but half of pupils are expected stay home as many parents, councils and teachers remain sceptical of the government’s assurances over their safety.

Guardian education editor Richard Adams writes:

Boris Johnson’s government has invested considerable political capital in opening classrooms to primary school pupils in three year groups – reception, year 1 and year 6 – leading to warnings by independent scientists that it is too soon to reopen while transmission and infection rates remain so high.

While most of England’s 18,000 primary schools will open to more pupils from Monday, a large majority of headteachers say they are not able to accommodate all three year groups, in some cases for the remainder of the school year.

According to a survey conducted by the National Foundation for Educational Research, primary school leaders expect that 47% of families will keep their children home, with the proportion rising to 50% among pupils eligible for free school meals.

The gradual reopening of schools is part of a raft of measures to ease the lockdown in England on Monday, which includes allowing groups of up to six people to meet outdoors and in private gardens. Outdoor markets and car showrooms can now resume trading from today, provided they socially distance.

Senior public health officials made an extraordinary last-minute plea for ministers to scrap Monday’s easing of the coronavirus lockdown in England, warning the country is unprepared to deal with any surge in infection and that public resolve to take steps to limit transmission has been eroded.

The Association of Directors of Public Health (ADPH) said new rules were “not supported by the science” and that pictures of crowded beaches and beauty spots over the weekend showed “the public is not keeping to social distancing as it was”.

It follows comments by a second senior government medical adviser, Jenny Harries, a deputy chief medical officer for England, who effectively criticised Dominic Cummings for breaching lockdown regulations by saying it is “a matter of personal and professional integrity” to abide by the rules.

I’ll be helming the liveblog this morning. If you need to get in touch you can email me (aamna.mohdin@theguardian.com) or reach me on Twitter. 

Updated at 8.56am BST

 

 

[Anubis]

Full text of the DPH letter.

 

 

Directors of Public Health are increasingly concerned that the tovernment is misjudging this balancing act and lifting too many restrictions, too quickly. 

This is a new disease; evidence is still emerging and there is much uncertainty. However, based on what is currently known, several leading scientists and public health experts have spoken out about a string of recent national policy announcements affecting England which project a degree of confidence that many – including ADPH members – do not think is supported by the science.

Over the weekend we have seen signs that the public is no longer keeping as strictly to social distancing as it was – along with this, we are concerned that the resolve on personal hygiene measures, and the need to immediately self-isolate, if symptomatic, is waning. A relentless effort to regain and rebuild public confidence and trust following recent events is essential.

De Gruchy expanded on this in an interview on the Today programme this morning. She said local directors of public health could only be effective if other parts of the anti-coronavirus programme were working too. She went on:

So we need testing, the national testing programme, to be absolutely robust and ready, and we need the NHS test and trace to be robust and ready. And of course the other issue ... is about PPE and the supply of PPE. So all of those organisational challenges that we are all working really hard getting in place - we’re not feeling, just yet, that we are really confident enough to meet any potential challenge if the government goes too quickly on easing lockdown measures.

 

[Barrington Womble]

12 minutes ago, Anubis said:

George Morgan-Grenville said:

 

Fuck 60,000 dead people, a few more can die because I need to replenish my supply of fine cigars.

Here's a thing I don't understand about this, could they not make a paid for test compulsory on return? You go home and quarantine till the results are back. If there is one positive test on the flight, you stay locked down and need to follow normal test and trace contact procedures? If everyone is negative on the flight, the lockdown is released? 

[Spy Bee]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-italy-virus/new-coronavirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says-idUKKBN2370OP

 

New coronavirus losing potency, top Italian doctor says

[Anubis]

From Bournemouth.co.uk

 

Quote

Staff spat at and abused on Bournemouth Beach

By Emily Liddell Testing

Staff spat at and abused on Bournemouth Beach

COUNCIL staff were spat at and abused as crowds swarmed Bournemouth’s beaches and abandoned the lockdown laws this weekend.

BCP Council leader Vikki Slade said that Bournemouth was in a “horrendous” state over the weekend as people flocked to the seaside to enjoy the sunny weather.

Now, council leaders are considering closing the car parks following an “emergency meeting” in a bid to keep the area safe.

Councillor Slade said yesterday the situation was “horrendous”.

“The car parks were full before 10am today. We called an emergency meeting to discuss what we can do,” she said.

“We could close the car parks but it would be a case of stopping new people from coming in.”

The council leader said council staff have been “scanning the water” as there are currently no lifeguards on the boat, as well as managing crowds and dealing with disposable barbecues on the beach.

“We are also concerned about safety,” she added. “Staff have been spat at, assaulted and abused.”

While around the two piers the beach looked extremely busy, further afield in areas like Southbourne it was a quieter scene.

Rail, Maritime and Transport Union chiefs reported “chaos” on the railways due to a surge in passengers, with Bournemouth at the “eye of the storm”.

On Sunday, a group of councillors, including Cllr Slade, went to the busiest sections of Bournemouth beach to see if there was anything they could do to improve the situation.

“Appalling to see people not even attempting to distance,” Cllr Slade tweeted afterwards.

“Been volunteering on the beach all afternoon and spoke to people with dogs, lit barbecues, big groups sitting virtually on top of each other.

“Over 13 tonnes of litter removed this morning before beach opened and campers evicted.”

Mark Mould, chief operating officer at PooleHospital, believes that people have “lost the social distancing compliance”.

He added: “Sad really that such hard work by everyone could be undone. We will be monitoring impact with teams and crossing fingers.

 

 

[Spy Bee]

[Spy Bee]

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20200526/481405383164/coronavirus-cataluna-datos-hospitales-ingresos-evolucion-desescalada.html 

 

Similar stories emerging from Spain

[M_B]

27 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

I don't understand this - what am I missing? Isn't the probability of dying from COVID-19 in that taken from a country in lockdown? Wouldn't that be like saying your chances of dying in a car accident would be 0.01% when you don't drive a car? I'd be interested to see the figures had the virus been allowed to spread unhindered. Also, your chances are going to vary depending on the density of population where you live right?

[Spy Bee]

Sweden's economy grew in Q1

 

I don't know the answers to your questions M_B. London seems like one of the safest places to be at the moment, but initially it was worst hit. I just posted it to wind TK up.

[Grinch]

47 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

 

Pathetic, someone hasn't lost anyone yet. 

[Spy Bee]

1 minute ago, Grinch said:

 

Pathetic, someone hasn't lost anyone yet. 

I've lost people in my life mate. I don't think it's healthy living in fear though. By all means be sensible and take precautions, but it's not good for mental health being unduly terrified.

[Elite]

10 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

I've lost people in my life mate. I don't think it's healthy living in fear though. By all means be sensible and take precautions, but it's not good for mental health being unduly terrified.

I agree somewhat about not wanting to live in fear but as a fit 33 year old with no pre-existing health problems it could quite easily have killed me and now I'm on blood thinners for life because of it. When you are on the floor struggling to move with blood coming out of your mouth, you realise just how serious it can quickly become.

[Spy Bee]

3 minutes ago, Elite said:

I agree somewhat about not wanting to live in fear but as a fit 33 year old with no pre-existing health problems it could quite easily have killed me and now I'm on blood thinners for life because of it. When you are on the floor struggling to move with blood coming out of your mouth, you realise just how serious it can quickly become.

I didn't realise you'd been so ill. I've not read every page of the thread. You are, unfortunately the massive exception to the rule though. I'm not suggesting that it's wise to go around licking the faces of the afflicted though, I am just pointing out that it is nowhere near as deadly as people think & if you continue to behave sensibly you have even less chance of catching it.

 

I'm also not endorsing the governments actions, but we can't just all stay in our houses forever.

[Tony Moanero]

13 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

I didn't realise you'd been so ill. I've not read every page of the thread. You are, unfortunately the massive exception to the rule though. I'm not suggesting that it's wise to go around licking the faces of the afflicted though, I am just pointing out that it is nowhere near as deadly as people think & if you continue to behave sensibly you have even less chance of catching it.

 

I'm also not endorsing the governments actions, but we can't just all stay in our houses forever.

It’s only been about ten weeks though, even then most people have still been able to go out to shop for food and excercise. The way some people are carrying on, you’d think they had been shut indoors for ten years!

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Spy Bee said:

I didn't realise you'd been so ill. I've not read every page of the thread. You are, unfortunately the massive exception to the rule though. I'm not suggesting that it's wise to go around licking the faces of the afflicted though, I am just pointing out that it is nowhere near as deadly as people think & if you continue to behave sensibly you have even less chance of catching it.

 

I'm also not endorsing the governments actions, but we can't just all stay in our houses forever.

For a disease to kill circa 375,000 people worldwide in around 3 months, I'd say covid-19 Is doing a pretty good impression of a deadly virus. And that's with some countries in lockdown.

[Section_31]

7 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

It has only been about ten weeks though, even then most people have still been able to go out to shop for food and excercise. The way some people are carrying on, you’d think they had been shut indoors for ten years!

It's funny but most people I know are wary of stepping out yet, I think a lot of the people expressing frustration are probably younger people who don't live in great accommodation in London. I'm lucky in that there's just the two of us and we've got a garden, I can't imagine what it must be like to have kids and be stuck in a flat. 

 

It's a careful balancing act, as I've said a few times on here I don't think the point of the lockdown has ever been communicated well enough. As I understood it, the point wasn't to stop us catching it - just to stop us catching it at the same time. 

 

Most of the people who've died in hospital (care homes is a different, scandalous story) have died because medical science couldn't save them, not because there were no beds or ventilators. Which was the nightmare scenario. 

 

But I think people have come to view the lockdown though as a way of protecting them from ever running the risk of catching the virus, in perpetuity or until a cure is found. 

 

Even though it's only been ten weeks it'll have had a profound psychological impact on a lot of people, delayed in many cases. Let's face it, there's a reason we use prison as a punishment. 

 

I think the lockdown has done its job. I think it's provided the NHS with a chance to catch its breath (and then some, hospitals are apparently overly quiet in some places) It's also given them a chance to learn about what they're dealing with (a lot of early expectations - such as the need for ventilators - have chanced) and to develop some treatments (they've got plasma therapy and that Boromir drug). It's also given them a chance to hopefully stockpile some PPE and not have to buy them from Ebay and all that bollocks. 

[Grinch]

4 minutes ago, Tony Moanero said:

It’s only been about ten weeks though, even then most people have still been able to go out to shop for food and excercise. The way some people are carrying on, you’d think they had been shut indoors for ten years!

It's been a sham of a lock down.   The rich allowed to keep making money, beaches packed and non stop parties. 

 

Now going out of it with 1000s dying every week still.   The countries that have dealt with it well, think about tightening restrictions with less than a 100 new cases of infections. 

 

It's OK tho, tow the party line, get back to work, kids back to school.  Who cares about the elderly and vulnerable. 

[Spy Bee]

3 minutes ago, S.i.t.M aka The Boring One™ said:

For a disease to kill circa 375,000 people worldwide in around 3 months, I'd say covid-19 Is doing a pretty good impression of a deadly virus. And that's with some countries in lockdown.

150,000 people die each day globally.

[Grinch]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

It's funny but most people I know are wary of stepping out yet, I think a lot of the people expressing frustration are probably younger people who don't live in great accommodation in London. I'm lucky in that there's just the two of us and we've got a garden, I can't imagine what it must be like to have kids and be stuck in a flat. 

 

It's a careful balancing act, as I've said a few times on here I don't think the point of the lockdown has ever been communicated well enough. As I understood it, the point wasn't to stop us catching it - just to stop us catching it at the same time. 

 

Most of the people who've died in hospital (care homes is a different, scandalous story) have died because medical science couldn't save them, not because there were no beds or ventilators. 

 

I think people have cone to view the lockdown though as a way of protecting them from ever running the risk of catching the virus, in perpetuity or until a cure is found. 

 

Even though it's only been ten weeks it'll have had a profound psychological impact on a lot of people, delayed in many cases. Let's face it, there's a reason we use prison as a punishment. 

Thats the point of the lock down if you're going with herd immunity and don't want the hospitals over run.