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Captain Turdseye

Boxing 2020

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6 hours ago, Elite said:

I'll never forgive Haye for losing to Belllew. Twice.

But without those victories, we might never have seen the glorious schooling that Bellend received from Usyk.


Every cloud and all that.

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If you just look at the records, Daniel Dubois and Joe Joyce would appear to have plenty in common as far as their standing in the boxing game.


Dubois (15-0, 14 KO) turned pro in Apr. 2017, and has pretty much dominated thus far, beating the likes of Razvan Cojanu and Richard Lartey, with a 2019 victory over Nathan Gorman his clear highlight. Gorman, who was unbeaten at the time, had some supporters going into that fight who thought his boxing IQ or something would befuddle Dubois. It did not. Dubois wrecked him and finished him in five rounds. What was supposed to be a sincere domestic test was another steamrolling.


On that same card at London’s O2 Arena, Joyce (11-0, 10 KO) had a tougher time. Turning pro in Oct. 2017 after a silver medal at the 2016 Olympics, the “Juggernaut” battled past Bryant Jennings in a fight that was a good bit closer than two of the cards might lead one to think. Jennings is a former world title challenger who’s had a solid career, and it may simple be true that style-wise, Jennings was just a tougher matchup for Joyce than Gorman was for Dubois.

Personally, I don’t want to take everything from that one night, and there’s little else to really read into on either of their records. Other than Gorman, Dubois has largely bashed through people meant to be bashed through, same for Joyce with Jennings, whose other “notable” win came over former WBC titlist Bermane Stiverne in Feb. 2019, but Stiverne was 20 pounds overweight and didn’t seem like he much wanted to be there after he threw caution to the wind in round one.


The records are what they are, and would lead you to believe this is sort of a prospect vs prospect bout, similar to what we saw years ago with George Groves and James DeGale at 168 pounds, for instance.


But as simple as it is, there’s a big, big difference between these two fighters: Dubois is 23 years old, and Joyce is 35.

How to Watch Dubois vs Joyce

Date: Saturday, Nov. 28 | Start Time: 2:00 pm ET
Location: Church House - Westminster, London, England
TV: BT Sport (UK) | Stream: ESPN+ (US)
Live Online Coverage: BadLeftHook.com



Now listen, Joyce being 35 in the heavyweight division isn’t by itself a scary number or anything of the sort. He was a late comer to boxing, not taking it up until he was 22, when a track and field career was ended due to injuries. Seven years later, he won gold at the 2014 Commonwealth Games, took gold at the European Games and bronze at the World Championships in 2015, and a controversial silver at the 2016 Olympics. He also competed in the World Series of Boxing. He’s faced a lot of very talented competition over the years.


Boxing at The O2Photo by James Chance/Getty Images



When you watch Joyce, which is the key thing, it’s definitely not hard to pick out flaws. He is big and heavy, listed at 6’6” with an 80-inch reach, but just an absolute oak of a man, a huge, sturdy athlete. He was 270 pounds for a July win over Michael Wallisch, but that was after a year out and a global pandemic throwing boxing and everything else out of whack. He was 256 against Jennings a year prior, and it’s likely he’ll be in the mid-250s to low-260s when he weighs in on Friday.

All of that doesn’t quite tell the story of just what kind of physical specimen he is, though. Tyson Fury is officially 6’9” and we’ve seen him at 255 and 275 and 245, and Fury never looks like some dangerous pro boxer. Joyce is a tank.


Unfortunately, perhaps, he also moves like one. He is slow of foot and slow of hand. He has defensive lapses he has been able to make up for with what appears to be an extremely sturdy chin. Fury is awkwardly graceful, far more agile and athletic than you would think of him at first blush. Joyce isn’t necessarily robotic or stiff like, say, the Klitschkos could occasionally be, either; he is simply slow and ponderous, like a shrunken Nikolay Valuev.


But he’s tough to hurt, and he also keeps a very high workrate. In that sense, he can be sort of like a huge version of Alfredo Angulo. So a hybrid Valuev-Angulo. This is an odd thing to be.

Dubois took up boxing as a boy, as is more often the case for top prospects. He didn’t have near the amateur experience Joyce did, having a reported 75 or so amateur fights overall.


There was a plan for him to be part of the 2020 Olympics, but he went pro in 2017 instead.

Dubois has a pro style. He’s explosive, athletic, a big guy himself at a listed 6’5” and coming in around 240 pounds usually, though next to Joyce he has looked kind of small. It’s hoped that he will be a big star, and you can see why. He passes the eye test, the power is natural and can be very sudden, and he seems to have legitimate natural gifts beyond the power, stuff that he can use to polish his overall game as he gets older and gains more experience.


Boxing at The O2Photo by James Chance/Getty Images

The experience could be a big factor. The Joyce team believe that their guy can put the sort of pressure on Dubois that he hasn’t dealt with and won’t know how to handle. Joyce isn’t going to start dancing around and flustering Dubois with speed, but his heavy jabs could give Dubois some pause, and something as (in theory) simple as getting in close and even just leaning on Dubois and slowing him down could pay off not just in weathering Dubois early, but in depleting his gas tank. Dubois has only gone past the fifth round once.


This isn’t an eliminator for any title, but the winner will be the European, British, and Commonwealth champion, will win the WBC’s “silver” title and have a high ranking there, and probably will wind up the No. 2 contender with the WBO, which Dubois already is (Joyce is No. 11 coming in). There is a lot on the line here.


For Dubois, it’s another chance to prove he might be the heavyweight contender on the rise. For Joyce, listen, if he’s going to start making his move, it’s now. 35 isn’t ancient at heavyweight — or in boxing in general anymore — but it ain’t 23, either. Just for the sake of discussion, Dubois could lose this fight and bounce back with a lot of time to improve. Joyce doesn’t have that window. His is small. A loss to Dubois doesn’t shut it, but it hurts his chances of even getting to a world title fight significantly, let alone actually winning a world title.


It is a rare truly fascinating matchup. I think you can have very strong feelings for one man to win this over the other, but it’s not a mismatch on paper, both of these guys have legitimate hopes, and they’re also both still relatively unproven.


We don’t often tell you, “Hey, this is a fight that if it’s not quite on your radar, really consider putting some time aside to watch it.” I would with this one, particularly if you’re a fan of the heavyweights. We could see a 23-year-old dynamo continue what looks to be a rapid rise in the division, or we might see a dangerous 35-year-old ready to make his mark. And style-wise, we should have some action here, too.




Tyson Fury

"I want to be there for that. I want to be the commentary man for that fight. That’s a fight I do not want to miss. Both good fighters. Joe’s a big strong unit, Juggernaut, get in the way he’ll run you over. Daniel’s big and strong and youthful, fresh. They’re both good fighters and it’ll come down to who wants it more on the night.

"They’re both capable of winning, they’re both capable of pulling victories out and they’re both capable of knocking the other person out. It’s a fight you don’t want to miss. Watch it live and exclusive on BT Sport."


David Haye

"I can see it going both ways. I can see Dubois being able to stop Joyce if it’s an early shootout. But, if it’s not an early shootout and it becomes a boxing match, I believe that works in Joe Joyce’s favour. So I’m going to go with the man I know, the man I’ve seen take some beatings and soak it up, I’m going to go with Joe Joyce by points decision or late stoppage."


John Fury

"I’m a little bit worried about whether it’s too early for Daniel Dubois. Joe Joyce is a big, strong seasoned man. We know he’s got a good engine and he can hold a shot well. It’s a hard one, but for my money it’s a bit too soon for Daniel Dubois."


Andy Lee

"I see it being a shoot out. I think Dubois’ extra speed will give him the edge and I think he’ll win by knockout."

Bruno exclusive - Dubois is the favourite vs Joyce

Former heavyweight world champion Frank Bruno joins BT Sport to discuss the upcoming domestic clash between Daniel Dubois and Joe Joyce, exclusively live on BT Sport this Saturday evening.



Ricky Hatton

"I think most people will lean to Dubois slightly because he’s a man in form. He’s a little bit fresher. Joe’s had a very distinguished amateur career, maybe he has a few more miles on the clock than Daniel. He’s quite versatile Joe. He can do pretty much everything. His style is a little bit in-your-face, though, which might suit Daniel Dubois. I think it’s a 50-50 fight, but Daniel might be a little bit fresher… I think that might just make the difference."



Paulie Malignaggi

"My prediction is an explosive fight. Could go either ways. They’re both big punching guys looking for the big one. I edge towards Dubois at this moment."


Richie Woodall

"I think if Daniel Dubois can land a big shot early on it’ll be his contest. If Joe can get through the first 3 or 4 rounds and take Daniel into the later stages… then the tide could turn after 5 or 6 rounds. If I had to put money on it, I’d probably just fancy Daniel to be honest."


Liam Williams

"I think it’ll be a very good fight. I quite highly favour Dubois, but if Joyce can weather a bit of a storm then I think he’s in with a chance. If you put a gun to my head, I’d have to put my money on Dubois."


Nathan Gorman

"It’s a real 50-50 fight in my opinion. I think lot of people are writing Joe off, but it’s a lot closer than that. Joyce has got a good amateur pedigree. Daniel on the other hand is a big power puncher, massive backhand. Under six I’ll favour Daniel, over six it’ll be interesting to see what happens."


Tommy Fury

"50-50 in my mind. Obviously Joyce can shift a shot, he’s more experienced coming from the amateurs. He’s had some good fights as a professional. Then you’ve got a young boy Daniel Dubois, British champion on his way up. I know it’s a cliché to say that if it goes long Joyce will win it and if it goes short Daniel will win it but really, I just wish good luck to both men hope they put up a good fight and may the best man win."


Carl Frampton

"This ones really interesting. Both guys are punchers. Dubois is technically better than Joe but Joe, even though he looks really unorthodox, he’s got an engine like I’ve never seen before in my life. I was lucky enough to train with him and I’ve never seen a fitter boxer.

"He’ll want to apply his pressure to Dubois and make him work hard from the start. I think it’s going to be a great fight, Joe’s going to force the pace from the start and he’s going to walk onto a lot of shots so it’s all about how well his chin holds up. The later the fight goes on the more chance that Joe has but I’m going to stay with Dubois on this one. I think Dubois will get to him at some point, probably a stoppage in the middle rounds."


David Price (speaking to SecondsOut)

(Picking Joe Joyce) “It’s the intensity he fights at. It’s his unconventional, unorthodox style which can throw people a lot. Bryant Jennings is a top operator… and Joyce is getting in with him when he hasn’t even had ten professional fights. I believe (Joe) is an Olympic Gold medaller, really. So, Joe’s going into the fight in my eyes as the favourite.

Adam Catterall (TalkSPORT presenter and Fight Disciples co-founder)

"Two top blokes throwing down for our entertainment. Like everybody else I see either Daniel early or Joe late. I can’t see it going the distance. Joe is tough but he does get hit. If Daniel can open him up with that jab and left to the body, the head shots will come. Can’t see Joe getting knocked out but I can see him stopped on his feet."


Lou DiBella (Leading US promoter)

"I love this fight — clash of styles,  with the outcome in doubt. Big Joe is physically strong, durable, more experienced, and has reach... but he’s slow. Dubois is more mobile, can be explosive, and has potential out the ying-yang. This is a great domestic brawl. The kid’s more athletic and I’m predicting a mid/late stoppage for Daniel."


Ron Lewis (Leading Boxing writer)

"This is a real gut check for Dubois. As much as people will predict big things about his future, he has never beaten anyone nearly as good or experienced as Joyce and I could easily see Joyce wearing down Dubois and stopping Dubois. However, I think the difference between the pair is defence. Joyce doesn’t mind taking a shot and at some point that will be his downfall. Joyce will take some shifting but if Dubois catches him cleanly enough often enough, he will stop him. Dubois 7-9. "


Liam Smith (Former WBO super-welterweight champion)

 "I think it’s a top fight between two very good Heavyweights who are both on the up. It’s a good clash of styles. If Dubois has it in the tank, I think he wins, he’s better all round.  If he doesn’t, and doesn’t do Joyce in the first few rounds, then Joyce could come on for a late stoppage. But, my pick is Dubois win, 4-6 rounds."



Gareth A Davies (Telegraph, talkSPORT)

"This is an enticing, thrilling match-up and a crossroads fight for both Dubois and Joyce. Dubois has the edge in speed and devastating power, but Joyce looks like he means business and victory would elevate him into the top of the division. If Joyce is still there and intact after six rounds it will be fascinating, especially if Dubois has been tested by Joyce’s punches. I think Dubois wins this, if he can take those punches, around the sixth round."


Mike Costello (BBC 5Live)

"It could be one to remember, coming at such a pivotal time for both. I believe the accuracy of Dubois with the left hand – the jab and the body shot – will be the key factor in the outcome, offsetting the greater work rate of Joyce."


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Looking forward to this tonight. Dubois stoppage is the likely outcome as Joyce isn't difficult to hit but Joyce has bags of stamina and a great chin, so could be interesting if it goes late.

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2 minutes ago, Elite said:

Looking forward to this tonight. Dubois stoppage is the likely outcome as Joyce isn't difficult to hit but Joyce has bags of stamina and a great chin, so could be interesting if it goes late.

Yeah deffo, credit to both of them for doing it.

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33 minutes ago, John102 said:

Yeah deffo, credit to both of them for doing it.

Breath of fresh air mate not having it on PPV.

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If anyone comes by a stream for this one, I implore you not to immediately share it with me lest I immediately dial 999.

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1 minute ago, Kevin D said:


He asked for no streams. Away with you, lest his cane find your backside.

It's for the attention of Her Majesty's Secret Service. Avert your eyes, you churlish rapscallion.

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Been looking forward to this for a while. Dubois has looked impressive but hasn't really fought anyone of note. Not been that impressed with Joyce but he's fought and beaten better opponents and has a good amateur pedigree. Both undefeated British heavyweights looking to get into the big time. Should be a cracker.

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35 minutes ago, Kevin D said:

Anybody betting?

I've gone for a double on Sheeraz round 7-8 @4/1 and Dubois round 7-12 @3/1 

Only stuck a few quid on it but would be a nice £60 profit if it did come in

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I've just had a bit of fun with the betting. Done Dubois round 1, Dubois round 6 and any fighter to be knocked out in 60 seconds


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