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The New Leader of the Labour Party

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10 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Let's be realistic SA , if there had been any dodgy tweets or messages by Murphy, Milne or Formby we would have heard all about it by now and would not have had to wait for this expose, that's the point really.

 

Agree that doctoring of comments is out of order , there is plenty of horrific stuff to focus on without doing that. 

 

Milne has gone and Murphy will go , so the interesting one will be Formby. Whether she is seen as a Corbyn appointment or not ( my memory is that it was more a Unite push ) I think she has been an excellent GS , and didnt Corbyn have to put up with McNicol for over two years during which he actually took legal action against him to try to keep him off the ballot paper !! So why Starmer should expect Formby to disappear with a pat on the head is beyond me.


Only as realistic as me saying a month ago if there were texts messages by McNicol they would have been leaked by now to damage him. Clearly they will both have been at it, any other conclusion isn’t realistic to me. 
 

As I understand it a general secretary can only be removed by the NEC, if Starmer has the numbers I’d expect him to install his own one, and rightly so in my opinion, though I don’t think it’ll be Oldknow.
 

Corbyn should have been able to get rid of McNicol asap too instead of having to wait for a majority on the NEC. I think every new leader should be able to pick their own general secretary. 
 

Edit: The party machinery should totally align with the leader and they should have the say over all important positions. That way if it goes tits up they carry the can rather than putting the blame elsewhere. 

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3 hours ago, Captain Turdseye said:


The only thing stopping me at the moment is the fact that I got involved with a really small branch and it’s a nice group of people where I’ve made some friends. My loyalty is to them but even so I’m struggling to justify it. If there’s no definitive action on this (and what can they even do?) then I’m probably out too. If I was ‘only’ paying subs then I’d have jibbed it after reading a lot of that last night. 

 

3 hours ago, Anubis said:


Pretty much how I felt reading it. The only thing stopping me at the moment is that our CLP has a lot of good people in it who worked their bollocks off on doorsteps far and wide, and there are still good MPs in the party. That and the idea it would let the pricks get away with it. Like CT I think I’ll wait and see if there is anything that comes of it. If not, like Ian I’ll move on. Which would be sad after voting Labour all my life. 
 

EDIT: But what kills me more than anything is the number of people on low wages I saw on social media - a lot of unemployed, disabled and desperate people, who joined and gave money they could ill afford in exchange for a bit of hope. To know there were people in the party happy to shaft them over for their own ends even with an uphill battle as it was...


Lads, I’m begging you, stay put whatever happens. People like you quitting is exactly what these cunts want. Every departure of a decent left-winger is a victory for them - don’t give it to them.

 

Even if Starmer doesn’t deal with this now, there will be a reckoning at some point. There will be elections to the NEC and other bodies, votes at conference cast by delegates elected by CLPs, and possibly a leadership election if Labour loses the next election, or maybe before then if Starmer doesn’t go the distance. All of these will be decided by the members, so it’s imperative that the left keep the numbers.

 

Stay involved with your CLP where there are bound to be like-minded people who are just as angry as you are. Or if you really can’t face devoting any of your time to the party for the time being, be a paper member and cast your votes when required. Just don’t let these shitbags get control of the party back, because if they do then it’ll be a choice between them and the Tories running the country for the foreseeable future.

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The above applies to anyone else thinking of quitting, and also to people like Brownie who’ve already quit although I guess you’re probably not for turning.

 

Grit your teeth, dig in and get organised. This opportunity for the left only exists in the first place because people like Corbyn and McDonnell stuck it out when the right were in charge - ask yourself what they’d want you to do.

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1 hour ago, Jairzinho said:

Yes, it's going to be tough campaigning with just half a dozen Guardian journalists and John Mcternon going door to door.


Won’t anybody think of little Polly Toynbee’s verucas?

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12 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:


Only as realistic as me saying a month ago if there were texts messages by McNicol they would have been leaked by now to damage him. Clearly they will both have been at it, any other conclusion isn’t realistic to me. 
 

As I understand it a general secretary can only be removed by the NEC, if Starmer has the numbers I’d expect him to install his own one, and rightly so in my opinion, though I don’t think it’ll be Oldknow.
 

Corbyn should have been able to get rid of McNicol asap too instead of having to wait for a majority on the NEC. I think every new leader should be able to pick their own general secretary. 
 

Edit: The party machinery should totally align with the leader and they should have the say over all important positions. That way if it goes tits up they carry the can rather than putting the blame elsewhere. 

Doing the both sides routine, when we only have evidence of one side behaving absolutely terribly, including reinstating someone like Danzcuk, and generally being responsible for an awful lot of the bad press the Labour party has had over the last few years, seems a bit off, to me.

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On 12/04/2020 at 04:53, JohnnyH said:

.... 
 

I’m not British, so your politics, while somewhat important to me in a historical sense, and with the British border on my island from a current sense, is more of an interested bystander view. But the treatment of a fundamentally decent man in Corbyn to ensure he didn’t get in Number 10 is horrific.  Even for the people that hate him and his party and for the ones who are rampant Tories that are delighted he lost, they should be terrified how the press could smear him to this level and control who runs the country.  They can do it to anyone. Disgusting, and utterly terrifying. 

Looking from a little further away, that, broadly, is my take as well.

 

 

 

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The response from Sensible Centrist Twitter has been predictably magnificent.

 

The Labour left are accused of bullying and racism - “These people are a disgrace, there should be a full investigation and they should be kicked out of the party.”

 

The Labour right are accused of bullying and racism - “Look at that, Labour are infighting again during a national emergency, they should just come together and move on.”

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54 minutes ago, TK421 said:

Fair enough, I don't really follow it. The internal wranglings of the labour party. Probably the most boring concept ever devised. 

In the immortal words of NV, I disagree.

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13 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Doing the both sides routine, when we only have evidence of one side behaving absolutely terribly, including reinstating someone like Danzcuk, and generally being responsible for an awful lot of the bad press the Labour party has had over the last few years, seems a bit off, to me.


It’s a partisan report written by ‘one side’. If McNicol was in a position to write a report what do you think it would say? It’s no secret they were at war with each other. But you’ll get no argument from me that the people like McNicol in the report are cunts. Throwbacks to the days of Blair and Brown tearing chunks from each other and thankfully now largely gone from the party hierarchy. 

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54 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Let's be realistic SA , if there had been any dodgy tweets or messages by Murphy, Milne or Formby we would have heard all about it by now and would not have had to wait for this expose, that's the point really.

 

Agree that doctoring of comments is out of order , there is plenty of horrific stuff to focus on without doing that. 

 

Milne has gone and Murphy will go , so the interesting one will be Formby. Whether she is seen as a Corbyn appointment or not ( my memory is that it was more a Unite push ) I think she has been an excellent GS , and didnt Corbyn have to put up with McNicol for over two years during which he actually took legal action against him to try to keep him off the ballot paper !! So why Starmer should expect Formby to disappear with a pat on the head is beyond me. 'Starmer forces out GS who worked tirelessly during chemotherapy ' would be a golden headline for the msm.

 

With reference to a possible exodus of members , and your comment re Burgon ,there are also a lot of members like me who took Starmer at his word re a fresh start and will be off your pop if he was basically just lying and starts going back to the old centrist regime.His cabinet was not a great start on that score.


Don’t know if you edited your post or I didn’t read it properly cos I was on my way into Food Warehouse, but who would you have liked to have seen in his shadow cabinet and who was you disappointed he put in?

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25 minutes ago, Neil G said:

The response from Sensible Centrist Twitter has been predictably magnificent.

 

The Labour left are accused of bullying and racism - “These people are a disgrace, there should be a full investigation and they should be kicked out of the party.”

 

The Labour right are accused of bullying and racism - “Look at that, Labour are infighting again during a national emergency, they should just come together and move on.”

Did you get expect anything different?

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This report looks and smells absolute bollocks.

 

Im reiterating a previous statement I made on this thread. If you’re thinking of leaving the party because Starmer is leader than you never really cared for the party. The same if you left because Corbyn was leader.

 

I wish the left would attack the Tories with as much venom as they do the moderates. Maybe that would have won the last two elections...

 

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46 minutes ago, Neil G said:

 


Lads, I’m begging you, stay put whatever happens. People like you quitting is exactly what these cunts want. Every departure of a decent left-winger is a victory for them - don’t give it to them.

 

Even if Starmer doesn’t deal with this now, there will be a reckoning at some point. There will be elections to the NEC and other bodies, votes at conference cast by delegates elected by CLPs, and possibly a leadership election if Labour loses the next election, or maybe before then if Starmer doesn’t go the distance. All of these will be decided by the members, so it’s imperative that the left keep the numbers.

 

Stay involved with your CLP where there are bound to be like-minded people who are just as angry as you are. Or if you really can’t face devoting any of your time to the party for the time being, be a paper member and cast your votes when required. Just don’t let these shitbags get control of the party back, because if they do then it’ll be a choice between them and the Tories running the country for the foreseeable future.

I'm not a member but I agree with this, a few battles may have on the face of it been lost but the war is there to be won.

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3 minutes ago, Walter Sobchak said:

 

 

I wish the left would attack the Tories with as much venom as they do the moderates. Maybe that would have won the last two elections...

 

 

Is this satire?

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4 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

Is this satire?

No it’s not.

 

Cant remember how many times I’ve been called a fucking blairite for saying Corbyn was dog shit in the referendum for etc.

 

Or being told to Fuck off to the Tories etc

 

Just want this faction bollocks to end and get a fucking Labour Govt.

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Just now, Walter Sobchak said:

No it’s not.

 

Cant remember how many times I’ve been called a fucking blairite for saying Corbyn was dog shit in the referendum for etc.

Oh, sorry. I just assumed it was a joke. 

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9 minutes ago, Walter Sobchak said:

What war? 

The war that will undoubtedly be won where the rich will not unjustly reap the rewards of a beautiful world which can be plentiful for all.  

 

That war will be won.

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20 minutes ago, Walter Sobchak said:

This report looks and smells absolute bollocks.

 

Im reiterating a previous statement I made on this thread. If you’re thinking of leaving the party because Starmer is leader than you never really cared for the party. The same if you left because Corbyn was leader.

 

I wish the left would attack the Tories with as much venom as they do the moderates. Maybe that would have won the last two elections...

 

I would say if you actively campaigned to lose the 2017 election because of who the leader was you never really cared for the Labour party. 

 

 

To be clear I am not saying you did this, but these leaks definitely point towards senior Labour party members not only doing but being upset that Labour did better than they hoped in 2017. 

 

I blame the left for not attacking these cunts with any venom. 

 

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I mean, literally the complete fucking opposite has just happened. The "moderates" in the party have done absolutely everything in their power for the past few years to sabotage getting a Democratic Socialist government. Lying, smearing, undermining, and actively campaigning against your own party at every single cunting step to the point where those who actually wanted a Labour government had to fight against the opposition, the entirety of the press, and said "moderates" in their own party. 

 

The idea that now is an appropriate time to call out the left for criticising the centre, and that their doing so prevented a Labour government, is spellbindingly laughable.

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