The New Leader of the Labour Party

[polymerpunkah]

 

What sort of challenge does that pose? Does Labour have to flatten that graph?

 

How many of the voting membership are going to leave the party? Quite a few, I'd guess.

 

But how many are going to stay, and refuse to get behind the second coming of Tony/Toni Blair?

 

Does the voting system still allow outliers like Corbyn to get on the ballot, or have they closed that loop-hole?

 

 

 

 

[moof]

4 minutes ago, Pistonbroke said:

 

They won't have the EU to blame or indeed EU funding in their area. 5 years is a long time in politics mate. 

It is, but they’ve been blaming the EU, immigrants, communists, terrorists, you name it for as long as all of our lifetimes. Don’t see why they’d stop now

[moof]

Whoever the bogeyman is, it doesn’t matter. The tories, or the right, are going to bappeal to any fear they can, they’re going to appeal to the worst aspects of human nature. They will blame whoever is convenient to blame. That is how they operate 

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, moof said:

Yeah, both of those things. I don’t know if he can connect with and mobilise the vote. I don’t know if he has a vision to address the rise of far right populism, climate change, a capitalist system that is ever accelerating toward disaster...

We don’t know those things, sure. Do we know it about anyone? 

2 minutes ago, moof said:

It also ignores the 2017 election where labour had the biggest swing in votes since the 40s or whatever. It’s tempting to throw the baby out with the bath water but you’ll be throwing away the most powerful movement for change in European politics, a fantastic policy platform, a committed and hardworking activist base... 

Labour did better than expected in 2017, a swing from a low base and did so against a wank stain of a PM, and lost. Then went on to be savaged. There’s not much to salvage if Labour want to beat the Tories. I’m not saying lurch to the right on policies, I’m saying come in fresh from failure. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

1 minute ago, moof said:

It is, but they’ve been blaming the EU, immigrants, communists, terrorists, you name it for as long as all of our lifetimes. Don’t see why they’d stop now

Not all of them, plus not my lifetime. The NE was a Labour stronghold in most areas for years. Agree with the Racist bit, witnessed that first hand, although I haven't been back to the UK/NE in quite a while. Once the self harm kicks in you just have to hope they'll bin voting for the Tories, it was always going to be hard for labour in certain areas due to the obvious shit tip which is Brexit. 

[moof]

1 minute ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

We don’t know those things, sure. Do we know it about anyone? 

Labour did better than expected in 2017, a swing from a low base and did so against a wank stain of a PM, and lost. Then went on to be savaged. There’s not much to salvage if Labour want to beat the Tories. I’m not saying lurch to the right on policies, I’m saying come in fresh from failure. 

Yeah and I’m saying you’ll lose Labour’s best weapon if you dispense with “corbynites” or the left or momentum or whoever the fuck 

[A Red]

Diane Abbott 

[redheart]

Emily Thornberry for me

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, moof said:

Yeah and I’m saying you’ll lose Labour’s best weapon if you dispense with “corbynites” or the left or momentum or whoever the fuck 

When was the last time Labour won at PM level with "their best weapon"?

 

[moof]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

When was the last time Labour won at PM level with "their best weapon"?

 

Here’s an alternative question for you to think about. What else do they have? 

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, moof said:

Here’s an alternative question for you to think about. What else do they have? 

Well did Blair use that "weapon"?

[Jairzinho]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Well did Blair use that "weapon"?

No, he used Murdoch. 

 

That massive fucking weapon isn't available now.

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Jairzinho said:

No, he used Murdoch. 

 

That massive fucking weapon isn't available now.

Why?

[moof]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Well did Blair use that "weapon"?

Blair had almost consensus support from the entire corporate media structure, big business and established power frameworks. Not analogous 

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, moof said:

Blair had almost consensus support from the entire corporate media structure, big business and established power frameworks. Not analogous 

So the only "Labour" leader to have modern GE success had a strategy that cannot be replicated?

[moof]

This is 2019, that was 1997. We need to move the conversation away from this rehashed, tired bullshit. New Labour isn’t going to happen again, the genie is already out of the bottle 

[Strontium]

18 minutes ago, moof said:

Whoever the bogeyman is, it doesn’t matter. The tories, or the right, are going to bappeal to any fear they can, they’re going to appeal to the worst aspects of human nature. They will blame whoever is convenient to blame. That is how they operate 

 

Isn't that how Labour under Corbyn was operating? All that's different was the name of the bogeyman.

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, moof said:

 New Labour isn’t going to happen again

Old Labour isn't happening period.

[moof]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Old Labour isn't happening period.

Fantastic input mate

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, moof said:

Fantastic input mate

Yea, tough spot to be in if you know it hasn't worked and you believe it can't 

[Numero Veinticinco]

16 minutes ago, moof said:

Yeah and I’m saying you’ll lose Labour’s best weapon if you dispense with “corbynites” or the left or momentum or whoever the fuck 

Oh, yeah, I don’t really agree. I don’t think they’ll be lost, but I don’t think they’re the key to winning or losing an election. There are more ways to skin the motivational cat than carry out n with the connection with what has been going on. 
 

I think this is the important debate to be had in the Labour Party though, isn’t it. Exactly what we are debating here is likely to be the big factor going forward. 

[Jairzinho]

11 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why?

Because Murdoch backed Blair specifically to move to the Labour Party to the right, to ensure there was zero challenge to the status quo. More pertinently, his wallet.

 

It was something very specific to the time, it wasn't done to be replicated again. Which is why I tend to agree with Moof in that calls to move Labour back to the "centre" are misguided. The problem isn't/wasn't the policies in the main, certainly not economic policies. The problem was a leader that couldn't connect with the North, Brexit, and decades of large areas of the country being ignored by the very people that should have been representing them. People with fuck all, living in areas that haven't had investment, just taking their chance to tell what they saw as the establishment to fuck off. 

 

Labour weren't rejected in favour of tepid centrism. The Lib Dems tried to represent the 48% and they returned with 11 MPs. This shite isn't popular. 

 

Analysis of politics always suffers from a lack of sample size, I reckon. There isn't enough evidence of why something did or didn't work to expect to be able to transfer something from one era to another. Labour's first job is to go to Bolton, Redcar, and Derby, and speak to some people.

[moof]

Just now, Numero Veinticinco said:

Oh, yeah, I don’t really agree. I don’t think they’ll be lost, but I don’t think they’re the key to winning or losing an election. There are more ways to skin the motivational cat than carry out n with the connection with what has been going on. 
 

I think this is the important debate to be had in the Labour Party though, isn’t it. Exactly what we are debating here is likely to be the big factor going forward. 

Oh aye, it definitely is. I think whoever the new leader may be, they are going to need the backing of the activist base and, obviously it goes without saying, the membership at large. With all the other barriers Labour faces to win an election it’s that committed activist base that will really carry them. I’m worried that the apathy we see in the areas they’ve lost might extend to what is really driving the future of Labour politics in this country, and that is the youth and diversity of the base. 

[Guest Pistonbroke]

Murdoch must be odds on to die pretty soon, unfortunately he spread his spunk about and I've heard his sons are every bit as bad as that cunt. 

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

The problem was a leader that couldn't connect with the North, Brexit, and decades of large areas of the country being ignored by the very people that should have been representing them.

The only reason I got into these threads is because of the parallels between Labour and the Democrats being absolutely shite at picking the candidate.

 

We have since had almost a year of posters being aghast at the hint that Corbyn did not have enough support and daresay, was divisive within his own party.