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Election 2019 - The TV Debates

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4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

We know his position on every subject but this one. Brexit is going to be a disaster for the poorest people he’s supposed to be so worried about.  To be neutral is fucking dumb. 

Well maybe the deal he's planning on negotiating will make sure the poorest people are looked after, regardless of the outcome of the second referendum. 

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39 minutes ago, Barry Wom said:

So what you've said there is exactly why I said before I knew why he was taking this position. I do get it, I just really disagree with it. But here's the thing for me, I don't believe you can please all of the people all of the time - his position is attempting to do that in my.opinion. I've no doubt he would fuck people off if he picked a side, I just expect leaders to lead. If they don't want to lead, if they don't want to have a position, we don't need them. Let's just let the civil service run the country like a corporation and stop wasting our time and money with politicians and our supposed democracy. 

We’re talking about a referendum though. His view on it is pretty much pointless as the direction is dictated by millions of people.

 

Revoking article 50 would be “leadership” using your logic but in my view it would fall more into the category of dictatorship.

 

On this particular issue, ”Leaders lead” is a bit gammony for me. We don’t want a leader who just does whatever he wants, we want someone who listens and accepts that he could learn some shit and change his view as a result.

 

But I say again, this is a referendum. If he was PM and was being neutral on stuff he’s expected to make decisions on, then the criticism would fit. 

 

That’s not the case though, is it?

 

There are plenty of things you can criticise Corbyn for, lacking conviction is not one of them in my opinion.

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24 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Watching Swinson. She comes across as incredibly duplicitous. 

I really couldn’t get my head around why she kept responding with “we lost some battles and we won some” when questioned about her appalling personal voting record on welfare. They’re asking as to why you didn’t try to fight those battles not why you lost them!

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I was driving during the programme last night so was listening on the radio and only heard Sturgeon and Swinson. 

On Swinson she did sound like she was struggling at times, her voice was noticeably breaking which may have been due to being affected by the contempt in some of the questions, or could have been down to nerves.  Her answer to some of the questions I heard were unsatisfactory and evasive and she indicated no personal responsibility. 

She may have also suffered from following Sturgeon who was clear, authoritative, and bar one example I heard addressed every question directly. 

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Just now, viRdjil said:

I really couldn’t get my head around why she kept responding with “we lost some battles and we won some” when questioned about her appalling personal voting record on welfare. They’re asking as to why you didn’t try to fight those battles!

It’s just so logically flawed. If her voting record showed that she voted against but was defeated then she could use that point.

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3 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

I really couldn’t get my head around why she kept responding with “we lost some battles and we won some” when questioned about her appalling personal voting record on welfare. They’re asking as to why you didn’t try to fight those battles not why you lost them!

The ‘we would fight for a referendum but labour would negotiate to leave’ is so Lib Dem is unreal. Yes, I can’t handle facts. The fact that they would then put that to a referendum seems beyond her. 

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1 minute ago, viRdjil said:

I really couldn’t get my head around why she kept responding with “we lost some battles and we won some” when questioned about her appalling personal voting record on welfare. They’re asking as to why you didn’t try to fight those battles not why you lost them!

Exactly.  The question was, in view of the levels of poverty now seen in the UK, if she regretted her voting record while in the coalition.  "We lost some battles, we won some" just doesn't cut it.  Terrible answer. 

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1 minute ago, Pistonbroke said:

It's laughable that some think Swinson handled things well last night, she was a disaster. 

I thought her performance was actually alright but at the same time she got destroyed. Two separate things.

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8 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I thought her performance was actually alright but at the same time she got destroyed. Two separate things.

 

Are they? Surely a performance is based on the whole picture and not split into separate things. She was destroyed because she couldn't communicate her messages, which is kind of the point of debating. 

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Just saw this stat if you earn 80k a year you now bring home 45k roughly £3750 a month would you really miss another £10 to safeguard the NHS and other things , people need to get a grip .

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4 minutes ago, Tj hooker said:

Just saw this stat if you earn 80k a year you now bring home 45k roughly £3750 a month would you really miss another £10 to safeguard the NHS and other things , people need to get a grip .

Rico would, cunt thinks it's the actual RICO act

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1 hour ago, Rico1304 said:

We know his position on every subject but this one. Brexit is going to be a disaster for the poorest people he’s supposed to be so worried about.  To be neutral is fucking dumb. 

Brexit has been the most devisive political issue of my lifetime and has split the Labour vote more than any other party. So on the contrary, picking a side and alienating a sizeable proportion of your support is 'fucking dumb'.

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3 hours ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

It's almost as though they want people in who will launch attacks instead of asking questions.

 

Yeah, they had that actress mate of Ken Loach who's been in his films asking a question too.

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If you’re a remainer, Labours second referendum is the best option you can hope for. We either remain in the EU if the majority opt for it (the likely outcome in my opinion), or we leave in a very soft Brexity way, still in the customs union and closely aligned to the single market.

 

Farage and the ERG will be fuming at either outcome. Make it so.

 

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13 minutes ago, Paulie Dangerously said:

Really?

Yeah she was on last night. She asked Swinson a difficult question about her voting record under the coalition. Of course SD is comparing that one appearance and question to the Tory plant who is appearing all over the place spouting anti-Semitism because, well because he is a fucking idiot thats why. Almost as if she isn't allowed a voice because a) she doesn't like Swinsons voting record and b) she knows Ken Loach. 

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1 hour ago, Istvan Kosma said:

Rico would, cunt thinks it's the actual RICO act

I’d rather not pay more tax.  How controversial.  Especially if it goes to some of you feckless cunts.  

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1 hour ago, Tj hooker said:

Just saw this stat if you earn 80k a year you now bring home 45k roughly £3750 a month would you really miss another £10 to safeguard the NHS and other things , people need to get a grip .

Hahaha fame at last Rico negged this 

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2 hours ago, Brownie said:

We’re talking about a referendum though. His view on it is pretty much pointless as the direction is dictated by millions of people.

 

Revoking article 50 would be “leadership” using your logic but in my view it would fall more into the category of dictatorship.

 

On this particular issue, ”Leaders lead” is a bit gammony for me. We don’t want a leader who just does whatever he wants, we want someone who listens and accepts that he could learn some shit and change his view as a result.

 

But I say again, this is a referendum. If he was PM and was being neutral on stuff he’s expected to make decisions on, then the criticism would fit. 

 

That’s not the case though, is it?

 

There are plenty of things you can criticise Corbyn for, lacking conviction is not one of them in my opinion.

So in the 1st instance, I would not have had a referendum (the 1st one). I don't believe they're the way to solve complex issues with a blunt binary question with uneducated people (that's not digging people out, i just don't think the general population should understand the complexities of our membership of the EU). It would be like someone getting diagnosed with a life threatening disease and instead of letting their consultant recommend treatment, letting the fellas down the pub have a vote on it having done a quick google of disease 1st. For me what Corbyn is now doing is being the consultant and recommending the path of letting the people in the pub decide because he doesn't want to recommend any treatment because it might be unpopular. As an expert (which if he's to be prime minister he surely is?), as a very minimum he should be spelling out is which is the right path with his experience and knowledge and should try to drag the country in that direction. 

 

As for swinson and is she showing leadership, she absolutely is for right or wrong of her position. But as for it being undemocratic, it's no more undemocratic than ukip without ever winning a seat in parliament pushing Cameron to give the referendum. It's no more undemocratic than going with a non-binding referendum that doesn't deliver the Brexit promised in that referendum. It's no more undemocratic the MPs voting for the A50 legislation that had no protection for if the government couldn't get a deal and the default position was bombing out, nobody voted for that. It's no more undemocratic than the FPTP electoral system that would need to put swinson in power to allow her to revoke A50. Swinson is not attempting some type military coup, she's simply standing in an election on a platform of revoke A50 as it's bad for the economy and we are only ever here because of an unbinding referendum. That's about as democratic as it gets in this country should she win the election. She has to win 1st though, otherwise it's just her opinion of what we should do next. 

 

It was a massive mistake to call the referendum in the 1st place. 3 years on, I don't expect our leaders not to tell us what they think our direction of travel is and just say they'll double down on a previous bad choice referendum in case saying anything else is unpopular. I want a leader to have a path out of this mess and the skills to drag both their party and the country with them. 

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