Jump to content
  • Sign up for free and receive a month's subscription

    You are viewing this page as a guest. That means you are either a member who has not logged in, or you have not yet registered with us. Signing up for an account only takes a minute and it means you will no longer see this annoying box! It will also allow you to get involved with our friendly(ish!) community and take part in the discussions on our forums. And because we're feeling generous, if you sign up for a free account we will give you a month's free trial access to our subscriber only content with no obligation to commit. Register an account and then send a private message to @dave u and he'll hook you up with a subscription.

General Election 2019


Bjornebye
 Share

Who are you voting for?   

142 members have voted

  1. 1. Who are you voting for?



Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, an tha said:

He keeps saying the same shite...the same tired soundbites, the same emtpy tubthumping.

 

But sadly millions of fucking morons in this country are buying it - like those brummie beauts in that video posted the other day.

 

 

Once we Get Brexit Done and Take Back Control we will have a Strong And Stable country. 

 

Lying Tory Cunts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Brownie said:

Fair enough, I don’t see it that way. By your logic the Tories didn’t win two of the last 3 elections but they’ve still been in power.

Exactly that. That’s why they couldn’t do exactly what they wanted. But I get your view too. You can win by virtue of doing the best. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Scathing:

 

 

Calm down Stronts. That’s about as credible as that FactCheckUK debacle. He’s a Tory.

 


Here’s a more balanced verdict from the Guardian.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/04/would-labour-really-save-families-more-than-6700-a-year

 

TL;DR version:

Nationalisation could save households money that would otherwise go to private investors, but is reliant on the smooth execution of Labour’s plan.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Calm down Stronts. That’s about as credible as that FactCheckUK debacle. He's a Tory.


 

 

I think I'd prefer if you addressed his arguments rather than him personally. As his thread demonstrates, the figure of £6700 is transparently nonsensical, and in no way applies to an "average family".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I think I'd prefer if you addressed his arguments rather than him personally. As his thread demonstrates, the figure of £6700 is transparently nonsensical, and in no way applies to an "average family".

Not gonna waste my time scrutinising an openly biased source soz Stronts. Especially when a more impartial source (The Guardian) says it’s fair dinkum (with caveats).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

Not gonna waste my time scrutinising an openly biased source soz Stronts.

 

No, you're just going to take another biased source, one which doesn't have solid mathematics behind it, as gospel truth instead.

 

How wonderful when you can just disregard people's expert opinions wholesale, no matter how much evidential support they provide, just because you dislike their ideological bent. A recipe for true lifetime ignorance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Labour's accounting for all these things we could get if they get in power are dodgy, I don't think you can really deny that if you look at it enough. Especially when you look at the way they've responded when being confronted about where they're going to get the massive amount of cash for WASPI women for a start. There's just been repeated deflection to why they should get the money instead of how they're going to get it.

 

We saw it with Corbyn when Neil asked him and we saw it on Question Time too. And the rail thing there that the Tory points out does show that what he's covering is already off by a big amount, then there's stuff that might only factor in years down the line (which he also points out.) So I agree that a lot of Labour's figures are probably off. If they get in power the media will have a field day with it all too.

 

I'd rather that happen though and believe that Corbyn and plenty of other Labour members would be genuinely working at making things better for the majority of the country than see the Tories get in and spend another several years gutting the place even more. And Tories will make things way worse if they take us out of the EU and start making trade "deals" with countries like the US.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

No, you're just going to take another biased source, one which doesn't have solid mathematics behind it, as gospel truth instead.

 

How wonderful when you can just disregard people's expert opinions wholesale, no matter how much evidential support they provide, just because you dislike their ideological bent. A recipe for true lifetime ignorance.

It’s the equivalent of TheFactCheckUK from @CCHQ. I’d rather a more impartial source please. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Labour haven't challenged 3 big things, and they could've been doing this since before the campaign started, and also put out reports during the campaign on each of them : the antisemitism smear campaign, the bias in the mainstream media, Islamophobia in the Tory party.

 

They could've directed the public to Jewish groups supporting Labour, Muslim groups that have investigated the Islamophobia, Medialens and others for a detailed history on the media bias, Electronic Intifada and others for a detailed history on the smear campaign and ignorance of Tory Islamophobia. They could've also got help from Mark Curtis and others on how parts of the establishment and intelligence agencies have been against Corbyn from the off, and made a big thing now on that with the help of Declassified UK.

 

They could've bundled this info up and sent leaflets around the country explaining key parts of all 3 of them before the election and won back quite a lot of voters by challenging so much of it. But they've mostly just sat back and accepted it all, or apologised as timed and coordinated smears have been rolled out again and again, and as the media have continually been one sided from the start. Yes the media would've attacked them for it and been biased, yes there'd have been howls of antisemitism, but those things are happening anyway so what would there be to lose? At least some truth would've got through. Is this because Corbyn believes his message and the manifesto can cut through all of this? Is it his version of nicer politics? Do they simply fear the backlash of challenging it all? Who knows.

 

So many parts of the establishment's manipulation are exposed and talked about day after day on social media and to supporters online it's widely accepted, Labour don't get involved in or comment on hardly any of it though. It's like there's a massive disconnect between what many supporters are talking about and what the party chooses to focus on or stay quiet about.

 

If Labour lose and Corbyn steps down the next leader has to challenge all of this, because it'll just start up again if they don't like who it is. And if the person is genuine and wants to help people like Corbyn wants to, they won't like who it is and off we go again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Is this because Corbyn believes his message and the manifesto can cut through all of this? Is it his version of nicer politics? Do they simply fear the backlash of challenging it all? Who knows.

 

I think it's a combination of these things and not wanting to play ball with the media- Millband and Brown tried and were eviscerated. The AS smears are particularly insidious and hard to defend against, I think even a Campbell-type figure and his rebuttal squad would have difficulty with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mudface said:

I think it's a combination of these things and not wanting to play ball with the media- Millband and Brown tried and were eviscerated. The AS smears are particularly insidious and hard to defend against, I think even a Campbell-type figure and his rebuttal squad would have difficulty with it.

 

It'd be hard to do it but it looks like someone's going to have to if Labour lose this because of how well it's worked. They can just roll it out again whenever they like and add to democracy being more or less wiped out if not. There's been so much talk about how the internet has changed things and it has done, but not enough to deal with this onslaught at this stage. Maybe in time it'll get better but it definitely looks bleak right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, viRdjil said:

It’s the equivalent of TheFactCheckUK from @CCHQ. I’d rather a more impartial source please. 

 

No it isn't, if you'd taken any time to look at it.

 

Your receptiveness to an argument seems to depend on who is making it rather than a rational appraisal of the argument's merits. What kind of approach is that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

No, you're just going to take another biased source, one which doesn't have solid mathematics behind it, as gospel truth instead.

 

How wonderful when you can just disregard people's expert opinions wholesale, no matter how much evidential support they provide, just because you dislike their ideological bent. A recipe for true lifetime ignorance.

He’s an accountant isn’t he?  Numbers are his thing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...