General Election 2019

[Denny Crane]

You wouldn't know this from the tub-thumping coverage by our media and some of our psychopath warmongers in politics. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

I'm on the phone, so hard to go back and forth on your questions as they don't appear in the quote box, so I'll answer best I can. 

 

With regards to scrapping FPTP, I don't think it's ever been in labour's interest before. They always had a chance to be one of the big two, even if they were in my life time they were pepsi in the eyes of the electorate. However, the rise of the nationalist parties who also sit to the left, especially in Scotland have eaten into large parts of labours core support. In some ways ukip/brexit have kind of been English nationalists, albeit coming from the right and taken a slice of the Labour vote again. Brexit/ukip may be short term, but the nationalists in Scotland and Wales are not. I think there's now a genuine advantage for labour to go with a PR system where they would end up the largest left win party, so in the best position to form a government. So in the near term, if we can get a government with a left wing alliance, we can maybe get a new electoral system. 

 

In answer to your question "haven't we just had that" , it's from a place where parties expect to hold a majority and get their own way, the Tories this time got there with the support of the dup, who's votes were bought. They needed to make no compromise till brexit went tits up because May was shite - and even then they couldn't find it within themselves to compromise. In a new system, parties would need to work with each other in every single government. Cross party partnership will be essential, so we will need a new type of politician. And in a post brexit world, having MPs who know how to negotiate will be invaluable when dealing with the outside world. 

 

As for why we had the referendum, it's because the Tories were squabbling internally. There were the people to the right who are with farage and his type, then there are the one nation Tories to the right of centre. I feel sure if we'd have had PR, the Tories would have split on this years ago. They wanted to hold their party together as they saw it as the only way to be in power. 

[Gnasher]

The labour party is fucked. It's going to go like Scotland, a non enmity. The confusion over its Brexit stance ( Corbyn was right to pledge to acknowledge the result of the referendum) and the bogus anti Semite nonsense ( Corbyn innocent)  has plunged a dagger to it's heart. The labour party is about to get fucking hammered. I'm gutted.

[Dr Nowt]

Who could ever have imagined Brexit wouldn’t solely be an amusingly fun diversion which destroyed the Tories in a vacuum, eh.

[Megadrive Man]

29 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The labour party is fucked. It's going to go like Scotland, a non enmity. The confusion over its Brexit stance ( Corbyn was right to pledge to acknowledge the result of the referendum) and the bogus anti Semite nonsense ( Corbyn innocent)  has plunged a dagger to it's heart. The labour party is about to get fucking hammered. I'm gutted.

 

The Irony of Labour trying to stop a no deal Brexit to protect its voters that desperately want it. 

[Jairzinho]

8 hours ago, Mudface said:

Centrist New Labour got hammered in the general elections of 2010 and 2015 and got wiped out in Scotland. Even in 2005 under Blair, they only picked up 35% and lost nearly 50 seats compared to 2001. In all New Labour went from over 400 seats in 1997/ 2001 to about 230 in 2001.

Yes, it had a shelf life. 

 

The good will of sections of society, built up by an actual left wing party, was unlikely to continue indefinitely whilst they got ignored/shit on. 

 

Plus of course, Murdoch's plan was always a short term one. Force Labour to move to the right. Once they had, wash hands of them. Job done.

 

Anyone that thinks all of this can just be replicated in another era is living in a completely fantasy land.

[Rico1304]

9 hours ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

This time?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/pub-landlady-lifts-lifetime-ban-13175576

 

Are you suggesting that because a landlady claimed him and his mates got a bit loud when they were celebrating an election win, it follows that he was making a really lame attempt at being anti-Semitic on a bus full of journalists (who then chose not to report it, because they don't like to mention that sort of thing when it comes to Labour lefties)?

 

The real question is, are you a complete fucking moron?

Did you read that article before you posted it?  

[Numero Veinticinco]

12 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

This is very good. 
 

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/appalling-choice-contest-must-start-the-process-of-building-something-new-a4283876.html

 

‘Very good’. Wow. 
 

‘In the red corner is a blinkered Pharisee, a man so convinced of his own rectitude that he sees no contradiction between his pious homilies about racism and equality and a lifetime of support for terrorists, murderers and racist thugs. Like all leaders of a totalitarian mindset, he is entirely uninterested in the lives of individual human beings. He cares only for classes and factions, and the struggle between abstract political forces.’

 

Thats not ‘very good’, it’s an outright lie. You calling that bunch of spiteful horseshit ‘very good’ shows your mindset is quite broken. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

The labour party is fucked. It's going to go like Scotland, a non enmity. The confusion over its Brexit stance ( Corbyn was right to pledge to acknowledge the result of the referendum) and the bogus anti Semite nonsense ( Corbyn innocent)  has plunged a dagger to it's heart. The labour party is about to get fucking hammered. I'm gutted.

I thought the heroic 52% had destroyed the Tories and were the vanguard of a Golden Age of Socialism?

 

For what it's worth, I'm not yet convinced that Labour are doomed; far from it.

 

You love citing Tony Benn - remember what he said about two fires: the fire of anger at injustice and the fire of hope. You've got to keep them both burning. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

40 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Did you read that article before you posted it?  

Obviously. 

 

Is that just a stock deflection from the point that only a moron would fall for that "singing on the bus" lie?

[Rico1304]

41 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Obviously. 

 

Is that just a stock deflection from the point that only a moron would fall for that "singing on the bus" lie?

The bit where he denies it but apologises and the landlady says she has the CCTV?  

[aRdja]

Good on him. (I still wish he wasn’t part of the FBPE cult).
 

 

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 hours ago, Mudface said:

Centrist New Labour got hammered in the general elections of 2010 and 2015 and got wiped out in Scotland. Even in 2005 under Blair, they only picked up 35% and lost nearly 50 seats compared to 2001. In all New Labour went from over 400 seats in 1997/ 2001 to about 230 in 2001.

I’m not sure you can draw too many accurate conclusions from those, mate. There were a lot of other factors at play. New Labour wasn’t unpopular because of its domestic and economic decisions. In fact, a lot of what they did to repair the country - both figuratively and literally - that was very popular. Many of the things people complained at being ripped away during austerity years were New Labour projects. 
 

My point is, it’s not as simple as people not liking centre left politics. They became unpopular for a number of reasons. Get a Labour leader who is presentable, intelligent, and pragmatic without a load of baggage and I think s/he would have won an election, no matter if s/he was left wing or centre left. We on the left - in an attempt to be what we consider pure and honest and ethical - sometimes miss the important fact that general elections are dirty little popularity contests won by leaders who are looked at for a few seconds and decided whether they are likeable or not. It’d be nice to have a leader who was easily likeable, able to churn out some quotes and sound bites (the horror!), and actually win an election. I’m not saying that’s all they should have, I’m saying these things are important ingredients to winning over the vote of a lot of people. Like it? No. It’s important though, and the right are way better at it than we are. Waaaay better. 

[aRdja]

5 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Get a Labour leader who is presentable, intelligent, and pragmatic without a load of baggage and I think s/he would have won an election, no matter if s/he was left wing or centre left.

I respectfully disagree. Any left wing candidate would be treated just the same by your billionaires-owned media, and as a result the public would be just as brainwashed as they are now. I also think you’re being very harsh on Corbyn there. He’s much more presentable, intelligent and pragmatic than Boris Johnson, with less skeletons in his closet... but we all know that It doesn’t really matter and Boris will end up winning it next month. 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

18 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

The bit where he denies it but apologises and the landlady says she has the CCTV?  

The bit where he's singing anti-Semitic stuff? The bit where there are a busload of journalists present?

 

Not that it's relevant, but I  recommend you read the article.  She claims the CCTV shows it's his friends; he denies it and offers to help identify who it was.

 

I would say it's a complete non-incident, but that term is best reserved for idiot fiction like the bus allegations. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, viRdjil said:

I respectfully disagree. Any left wing candidate would be treated just the same by your billionaires-owned media, and as a result the public would be just as brainwashed as they are now. I also think you’re being very harsh on Corbyn there. He’s much more presentable, intelligent and pragmatic than Boris Johnson, with less skeletons in his closet... but we all know that It doesn’t really matter and Boris will end up winning it next month. 

I also respectfully disagree. 

[skend04]

10 hours ago, Gnasher said:

The labour party is fucked. It's going to go like Scotland, a non enmity. The confusion over its Brexit stance ( Corbyn was right to pledge to acknowledge the result of the referendum) and the bogus anti Semite nonsense ( Corbyn innocent)  has plunged a dagger to it's heart. The labour party is about to get fucking hammered. I'm gutted.

Hate to say I told you so. But can't believe anyone thought the Tories would implode over this whole farrago. 

[aRdja]

Probably worth adding, that the above was my honest view (as per) just in case you thought I was trolling NV.

[Bjornebye]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-cyber-attack-online-today-jeremy-corbyn-latest-a9199426.html

 

 

[Captain Turdseye]

Tell me why again are the government delaying the report into Russian interference?

[Anubis]

Because it allegedly references a number of Russians who have contributed campaign funds to Tory politicians. Someone just leak the fucker.

[clockspeed]

7 minutes ago, Anubis said:

Because it allegedly references a number of Russians who have contributed campaign funds to Tory politicians. Someone just leak the fucker.

That knob Morgan said this morning he would like to see report before he votes. Can only hope he becomes like dog with bone and doesn't let this disappear. Someone on twitter needs to keep agitating him . 

 

Edit would not be surprised if "unsuccessful" cyber attack not true it is a good way to keep pressure on ref russian hacking 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

There's a few early whispers that the cyber attack has been sourced to Russia and Brazil. 

 

There now needs to be a concerted pressure campaign against Agent Johnson to release the Russia report. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

Hello.... 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

The Lib Dems. From the funny tinge party to the unfunny cringe party...