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AngryofTuebrook

Adriàn

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6 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

All keepers make mistakes.

 

Good old Gary Sprake, rest his soul....

 

 

 

 

 

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Welcome to the Coronavirus "kick the shit out of the deputy goalkeeper TLW returned servicemen's League".

 

 

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41 minutes ago, skaro said:

 

On the Continent?

 

Sheffield United are kind of top 6 in England.

 

 

Yeah, but they won't pay him or Salford what they need to keep him, unless it's another loan

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1 hour ago, skaro said:

 

Good old Gary Sprake, rest his soul....

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, I remember Sprake and his 'careless hands' well. Still amazes me Revie stuck with him so long. Mind you, when he did drop him Davey Harvey wasnt that much better. His haircut was a disgrace too.

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Bearing in mind modern training methods, better pitches, increased levels of fitness, more scientific coaching and the fact that keepers are generally taller and more powerful than the keepers of 20 years ago, I find it difficult to accept that they've just become shit for no reason.  So I put it down to the pass back rule and the lighter, quicker, swervier ball. 

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10 hours ago, skaro said:

Welcome to the Coronavirus "kick the shit out of the deputy goalkeeper TLW returned servicemen's League".

Mad thing is, if it wasn't for that fucking virus, by now we would have picked up that crucial 6 points with Adrian as the title-winning goalkeeper. I'd like to think that that would be enough to stop some bitches bitching, but I'm not sure. 

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Why should it? If every outfield player was of the quality of Adrian (or Karius .. or Mignolet for that matter), we'd be battling in mid table or relegation. Players that ride on the curtails of their superiors deserve no praise. He reportedly takes home a salary of between £20-40,000 per week - again reportedly twice what he was offered to return to Spain. When he's done here, he'll make out handsomely for having been a Liverpool player on his next contract. When he was needed to contribute for the good of the club, he fucked up epically. That's all there is to it.

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16 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Mad thing is, if it wasn't for that fucking virus, by now we would have picked up that crucial 6 points with Adrian as the title-winning goalkeeper. I'd like to think that that would be enough to stop some bitches bitching, but I'm not sure. 

It won't be.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Why should it? If every outfield player was of the quality of Adrian (or Karius .. or Mignolet for that matter), we'd be battling in mid table or relegation. Players that ride on the curtails of their superiors deserve no praise. He reportedly takes home a salary of between £20-40,000 per week - again reportedly twice what he was offered to return to Spain. When he's done here, he'll make out handsomely for having been a Liverpool player on his next contract. When he was needed to contribute for the good of the club, he fucked up epically. That's all there is to it.

 

Is that what he's really doing?

 

Those couple of months when he kept at the start of the season, when we got off to our flying start - he was riding on "curtails" (sic), not contributing "for the good of the club", and fucking up "epically"?

 

Fair enough.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, skaro said:

 

Is that what he's really doing?

 

Those couple of months when he kept at the start of the season, when we got off to our flying start - he was riding "curtails" (sic), not contributing for the good of the club, and fucking up epically?

 

Fair enough.

 

 

That's exactly what he's doing. Do you really want to try and weigh up the positive/negative contributions of Adrian to Liverpool FCs 2019/20 season? I mean, we can do that if you want, and then we can evaluate his contributions versus that of his peers (Van Dijk, Salah, Mane, Alisson, Henderson, TAA, Robertson, Wij, Milner ... etc etc). This isn't some charity shop; he isn't an NHS worker or carer. He's an athlete on a multi-million £ contract, with multi-million £ options at the end of it as a result of being a player for LFC. His impact has been deeply negative. Hopefully the club learns from it and we get a more reputable back-up next time, just as we fixed our first-team 'keeper problem last time around.

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6 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

That's exactly what he's doing. Do you really want to try and weigh up the positive/negative contributions of Adrian to Liverpool FCs 2019/20 season? I mean, we can do that if you want, and then we can evaluate his contributions versus that of his peers (Van Dijk, Salah, Mane, Alisson, Henderson, TAA, Robertson, Wij, Milner ... etc etc). This isn't some charity shop; he isn't an NHS worker or carer. He's an athlete on a multi-million £ contract, with multi-million £ options at the end of it as a result of being a player for LFC. His impact has been deeply negative. Hopefully the club learns from it and we get a more reputable back-up next time, just as we fixed our first-team 'keeper problem last time around.

Those first-teamers are not the "peers" of our reserve keeper.  His outfield peers are the likes of Origi, Lovren and Lallana.

 

If you weigh the good stuff and the bad stuff, his contribution to the season has been about the same as theirs: the only difference is that if a keeper fucks up, there's nobody to cover for him.

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14 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

This isn't some charity shop; he isn't an NHS worker or carer. He's an athlete on a multi-million £ contract, with multi-million £ options at the end of it as a result of being a player for LFC. His impact has been deeply negative. Hopefully the club learns from it and we get a more reputable back-up next time, just as we fixed our first-team 'keeper problem last time around.

 

Yeah, but your subtext seems to be that he's some sort of a shifty, wage thief cunt, rather than... quite simply... not a world-class keeper.

 

So, if Virgil had've made a mistake that cost us an equaliser in a Cup match, if would have been OK, forgivable, because he's a "superior player" - probably on 80+K more a week than Adrian?

 

Blame Klopp then - he brought him in.

 

You'll Never Walk Alone, indeed.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Those first-teamers are not the "peers" of our reserve keeper.  His outfield peers are the likes of Origi, Lovren and Lallana.

 

If you weigh the good stuff and the bad stuff, his contribution to the season has been about the same as theirs: the only difference is that if a keeper fucks up, there's nobody to cover for him.

Lovren & Lallana will be gone at the end of this season too. Lovren's a nightmare - hence he was 4th choice centre back, hence he was bombed out of the squad straight after Watford and hasn't even been seen on the bench since. Origi has his shortcomings, but he deserves a statue for his exploits when it counted last season. Comparing him to Adrian in the context of their Liverpool careers? I mean, come on ...

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Where do we draw the line on statues?  Lovren, for the unforgettable/one of the greatest European nights ever Dortmund winner?

 

Everyone has their shiter players... Otamendi et al.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Lovren & Lallana will be gone at the end of this season too. Lovren's a nightmare - hence he was 4th choice centre back, hence he was bombed out of the squad straight after Watford and hasn't even been seen on the bench since. Origi has his shortcomings, but he deserves a statue for his exploits when it counted last season. Comparing him to Adrian in the context of their Liverpool careers? I mean, come on ...

The point you made was his impact on this season.

 

Adrian has contributed to a record-breaking league season so far; was the hero of the shoot-out in the Super Cup; played no part in our exit from the League Cup and was far from the only one to blame for our exit from the FA Cup and the Champions League. 

 

He's a reserve keeper. He's performed to that standard. 

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5 minutes ago, skaro said:

 

Yeah, but your subtext seems to be that he's some sort of a shifty, wage thief cunt, rather than... quite simply... not a world-class keeper.

 

So, if Virgil had've made a mistake that cost us an equaliser in a Cup match, if would have been OK, forgivable because he's a "superior player" - probably on 80+K more a week than Adrian?

 

Blame Klopp then - he brought him in.

 

You'll Never Walk Alone, indeed.

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, exactly, you got it. Players earn respect. Players earn the right to make mistakes. That's why Steve Gerrard is an absolute icon and the Chelsea slip is a mere after-thought in the context of his entire Liverpool career.

 

There's no subext other than a statement that he is a handsomely employed footballer whose foolishness/incompetence cost his team-mates the opportunity to progress and make the level of historic achievements his colleagues deserve and doesn't deserve sympathy for it. No more, no less.

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10 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Yup, exactly, you got it. Players earn respect. Players earn the right to make mistakes. That's why Steve Gerrard is an absolute icon and the Chelsea slip is a mere after-thought in the context of his entire Liverpool career.

 

There's no subext other than a statement that he is a handsomely employed footballer whose foolishness/incompetence cost his team-mates the opportunity to progress and make the level of historic achievements his colleagues deserve and doesn't deserve sympathy for it. No more, no less.

 

Sympathy.  Scapegoatery.  Comme si comme ça.

 

Klopp was happy to go out of the FA Cup in the Third Round - so I'm not going to jump up and down about a boob in the Chelsea tie.

 

As for Athletico, the whole team collapsed in the last 20 minutes (the defending on their second goal, for example) - we were cooked, and we were probably never going to climb the mountain of 3 successive CL finals... not on top of our incessantly brilliant League form.

 

So, if you're putting that down to an Adrian mistake, so be it, mate.  That's one way of looking at it, for sure.

 

I think all "top flight" footballers are ridiculously, outrageously and unnecessarily over-paid... even Virgil.

 

And that especially hits home at a time like this.

 

If you want to single out the "deep negative impact' of a stand-in goalie, fair play to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

The point you made was his impact on this season.

 

Adrian has contributed to a record-breaking league season so far; was the hero of the shoot-out in the Super Cup; played no part in our exit from the League Cup and was far from the only one to blame for our exit from the FA Cup and the Champions League. 

 

He's a reserve keeper. He's performed to that standard. 

 

Bolded is the important part. To his credit, you have a Super League penalty shootout. To his detriment, I would place two howlers within a week that were absolutely pivotal (by far the most pivotal - I'd be really interested to hear who you think played that was more at fault) to bombing us out of the two most esteemed competitions other than the League. Add to that the howler against Southampton for Ings' goal, add to that the weak hands for Madisson's goal at Leicester .. All this in, what, 18 appearances in all competitions where we're typically registering 65% possession and hardly conceding a shot on target? I mean we conceded 6 shots on target in the whole of that Atletico game, half of which flew through him .. do the math ..

 

No point continuing the conversation beyond this point - if you review those facts & conclude he's a player deserving of sympathy (which is the senitment of your initial post that roped me into this dialogue) / even praise for the sheer coincidence of being in goal for the next couple of games to reap the rewards his colleagues earned .. well, that's your prerogative ...

 

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6 minutes ago, skaro said:

 

Sympathy.  Scapegoatery.  Comme si comme ça.

 

Klopp was happy to go out of the FA Cup in the Third Round - so I'm not going to jump up and down about a boob in the Chelsea tie.

 

As for Athletico, the whole team collapsed in the last 20 minutes (the defending on their second goal, for example) - we were cooked, and we were probably never going to climb the mountain of 3 successive CL finals... not on top of our incessantly brilliant League form.

 

So, if you're putting that down to an Adrian mistake, so be it, mate.  That's one way of looking at it, for sure.

 

I think all "top flight" footballers are ridiculously, outrageously and unnecessarily over-paid... even Virgil.

 

And that especially hits home at a time like this.

 

If you want to single out the "deep negative impact' of a stand-in goalie, fair play to you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok - this really is my last post .. what a stupid comment. We were in the lead having absolutely blasted Atletico up until Adrian's mistake. To be honest I stopped reading after this its so ridiculous. The idea that the 'whole team' was at fault ... I mean OK, cool.

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7 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

 

Ok - this really is my last post .. what a stupid comment. We were in the lead having absolutely blasted Atletico up until Adrian's mistake. To be honest I stopped reading after this its so ridiculous. The idea that the 'whole team' was at fault ... I mean OK, cool.

 

Yes mate, that's right - it's an idea.  

 

Just like your idea that one player is at fault, and doesn't deserve a Champion's medal like the rest of his team-mates.

 

They're all just ideas, mate - including your idea that I'm stupid.

 

But hey, it passes the time, eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, aws said:

Bearing in mind modern training methods, better pitches, increased levels of fitness, more scientific coaching and the fact that keepers are generally taller and more powerful than the keepers of 20 years ago, I find it difficult to accept that they've just become shit for no reason.  So I put it down to the pass back rule and the lighter, quicker, swervier ball. 

Or maybe there's too much emphasis on the things you talk about and not enough on keeping? Or maybe they were always shit, we just never got to see them as there were less live games? For me they've been shit since the advent of the premier league and round the clock football. 

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22 hours ago, skaro said:

 

Good old Gary Sprake, rest his soul....

 

 

 

 

 

I remember him on a snowy winter afternoon under no pressure with the nearest Liverpool player miles away, attempting to throw the ball out, dropping it and watching it roll back into the goal., at the Kop end. A stunned silence followed.

I also remember him taking a ball in the balls, a proper, wet, leather football, and needing to have his tackle massaged by the trainer. No stunned silence for that one, again in front of the Kop. Much merriment ensued.

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1 hour ago, Barry Wom said:

Or maybe there's too much emphasis on the things you talk about and not enough on keeping? Or maybe they were always shit, we just never got to see them as there were less live games? For me they've been shit since the advent of the premier league and round the clock football. 

I suspect they've always been shit. (Well, maybe not shit; certainly fallible. ) In the past, before SSN, the 50,000 people at the match would say "well, that was shit" after the match, when they watch MOTD and then when they read the Sunday papers; then they’d get on with their lives and look forward to the next match, without the constant babble about the keeper's error.

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3 hours ago, Barry Wom said:

Or maybe there's too much emphasis on the things you talk about and not enough on keeping? Or maybe they were always shit, we just never got to see them as there were less live games? For me they've been shit since the advent of the premier league and round the clock football. 

I agree that they look shitter than ever these days and I can't remember the constant stream of changers happening 20 years ago. 

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