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Captain Turdseye

Other Football - 2019/20

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20 minutes ago, Baltar said:

Barca have become a joke. The problem starts with the idiots right at the top making the decisions. Rubbish managerial appointments, shocking transfer policy. They are in a whole heap of shite and nothing less than a total change at the top will stop the decline.

 

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Barcelona are merely doing what Barcelona have always done. Apart from that 5-6 year spell in the early 90s when Cruyff was manager and the team was a combination of Spanish players suited to his methods, players from their academy and a smattering of foreign players who again suited his methods, and the spell under Guardiola where the team was based around academy graduates and had the best player in the world, Barcelona have generally been a club that can't help but get into a dick-waving contest with Real Madrid, acting with the same classlessness and self-entitlement as the club from the capital despite proclaiming themselves to be something better, something more organic and working class. It's a viper pit full of politicking, back-stabbing and unstructured decision-making. Even in those two spells under Cruyff and Guardiola that I've mentioned above, there was still the same bullshit going on in the background, with the difference being that the team's success papered over the cracks.

 

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I agree to an extent Trumo.

 

I said last night, they’ve been, like the mancs in 1992 and a few Ajax sides, hugely fortunate the way that Guardiola side came together.

 

Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Messi, Valdez, Pique, Busquests, Fabregas, Pedro & a few others all came out around the same time (granted Pique and Fabregas had time over here first). Villa & Alba came from Valencia. 

 

Not only were these great players, some of the best (if not the best) in Barca’s history, they are also some of the best Spanish or worldwide footballers the game has ever seen in a generation / ever. 
 

Then, with that nucleus’s, they add Neymar, Henry, Ibrahimovic, Alves, Eto’o, Suarez, Ronaldinho, Deco, Toure...
 

IMO, that Guardiola side was the best club side I’d ever seen.
 

They’ve been incredibly fortunate (spoilt) with the job Rijkard started, Guardiola continued & ended with Enrique. 
 

Their stars aligned unbelievably. 
 

IMO, players like Coutinho and Griezman are suffering because they’re aren’t as good as say, Iniesta or Villa.
 

Similar to Henderson taking over as captain of us, he got stick purely because he wasn’t Gerrard. Hendo will never be Gerrard but, with time, he damn sure has become the best version of Hendo he could become. 
 

Coutinho & Griezman (and a few more) obviously aren’t bad players. Far, far, far from it. But because they aren’t instantly at the level of Iniesta or Villa fans are on their case and then they get bomded out. 
 

Their current financial situation is poor. They’ve committed to redeveloping the Nou Camp and now COVID19 has hit. It feels it’s going to be a god few years before Barca are challenging for the CL again. Barca will never have a bad side, they will always be an attractive option for players, but expecting every side to be as good as Guardiola’s is fantasy. 
 

I’ll confess, I like Barcelona. As a kid I loved the Kappa kits (especially the orange or green aways), I love they had no sponsor and was always fascinated with the Nou Camp. As an adult, I think it’s a phenomenal city, a place with everything and somewhere people are very lucky to live. 
 

However, some of that mystique qualities have eroded over the years. I still have a soft sport for them & want to see them challenging again (obviously not at our expense). Like us getting to the latter stages of the CL, I think the tournament is better with us in it. Something more romantic.
 

I fear it’ll be a ways back for them challenging for the trophy again. I can see them doing an Arsenal (last 16 and out) for a few years to come.

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Their problem isn't that they're not as good as they were a decade ago. Or that they're not winning the Champions League. It's that they're getting humiliated in Europe every year. And they're broke. And their star player thinks he owns the place...

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3 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

The boys landed in Austria today for the start of pre season training. We need an Other Football 2020/21 thread!

Start it then.

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16 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

Their problem isn't that they're not as good as they were a decade ago. Or that they're not winning the Champions League. It's that they're getting humiliated in Europe every year. And they're broke. And their star player thinks he owns the place...


Isn’t that because they aren’t as good though?

 

IMO, they are still trying to do what they did under Guardiola but the game has changed. 
 

They still think their Tika-taka is new and side don’t know how to play against it. 
 

But teams do know how to play against it now - better pressing in better areas (like we do), higher tempos and exploring spaces behind full backs. 
 

See Spain in every international tournament since 2014 as well. 
 

They both revolutionised the way the game is played. But they’ve not evolved and other sides have surpassed them. They need another Cruyff or Guardiola visionary. 

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1 minute ago, Scott_M said:


Isn’t that because they aren’t as good though?

They're an embarrassment. Not relative to Guardiola's side. But objectively.

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6 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

They're an embarrassment. Not relative to Guardiola's side. But objectively.


Apologies, I’ve significantly edited my post. 
 

I agree their capitulations in the last few years are embarrassing, but I’m not quite sure I follow the rest though?

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Scott_M said:


Isn’t that because they aren’t as good though?

 

IMO, they are still trying to do what they did under Guardiola but the game has changed. 
 

They still think their Tika-taka is new and side don’t know how to play against it. 
 

But teams know how to play against it now - better pressing in better areas (like we do), higher tempos and exploring spaces behind full backs. 
 

See Spain in every international tournament since 2014 as well. 
 

They both revolutionised the way the game is played. But they’ve not evolved and other sides have surpassed them. They need another Cruyff or Guardiola visionary. 

Opponents have wised up, I'm sure. But they're just not very good anymore.

 

They need to hire a world class manager, have him oversee proper recruitment, and cut Messi down to size or cut him loose.

 

It amazes me how unambitious they've been with their managerial appointments...

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10 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

It amazes me how unambitious they've been with their managerial appointments...


Yeah, it just feels like they’ve appointed people to keep Messi happy. 
 

IMO, Messi still has an important role to Barca. He obviously still has it and probably will do for a few years to come yet.

 

The issue is he they can’t play everything through him any more. IMO, they had a similar issue with Xavi.
 

They need to look forwards to great Barca side, but given the age of Suarez & Griezman and the lack of funds they have & the pressure that comes having to win every week and playing in front of 90k every other week, I don’t know where that player is coming from.
 

Demebele? Fatu? Whoever, it’s a big challenge for them. 

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22 minutes ago, Scott_M said:


Isn’t that because they aren’t as good though?

 

IMO, they are still trying to do what they did under Guardiola but the game has changed. 
 

They still think their Tika-taka is new and side don’t know how to play against it. 
 

But teams do know how to play against it now - better pressing in better areas (like we do), higher tempos and exploring spaces behind full backs. 
 

 

They don't play Tika-taka any more. They play 4-4-2 and have fucking Vidal in midfield. Tactically they're an absolute fucking mess. It isn't about rigidly sticking to a playing philosophy, they simply don't have one at times.

 

They've bought appallingly, and appointed shit managers that rightly feel like they have very little power anyway.

 

They'd probably benefit from buying absolutely no-one for 24 months. Just gradually shift out the overpaid, overrated or over the hill shite, and give games to Fati, Puig, Alena, and Pedri.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

 

They don't play Tika-taka any more. They play 4-4-2 and have fucking Vidal in midfield. Tactically they're an absolute fucking mess. It isn't about rigidly sticking to a playing philosophy, they simply don't have one at times.

 

They've bought appallingly, and appointed shit managers that rightly feel like they have very little power anyway.

 

They'd probably benefit from buying absolutely no-one for 24 months. Just gradually shift out the overpaid, overrated or over the hill shite, and give games to Fati, Puig, Alena, and Pedri.


They still try to play a variation of Tika-Taka, it’s only the last few games this short-term coach has gone a bit rogue.

They were defintely 4-3-3 under Valverde.

 

Define bought badly? I’ve defintely overpaid but when you buy arguably the most important player from top clubs (ie Coutinho, Dembele, Griezman) they won’t come cheap. 
 

IMO, they haven’t bought bad players at all. They haven’t moved with the times a and somewhat tried to square peg these players into round holes. 

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45 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

Define bought badly?

400 mil on Coutinho, Dembele, Paulinho and Semedo - one of those guys played for them this year.

I would imagine they expected more from 200 mil on the Griezmann - De Jong axis than 10 goals and a few assists.

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46 minutes ago, Scott_M said:


They still try to play a variation of Tika-Taka, it’s only the last few games this short-term coach has gone a bit rogue.

They were defintely 4-3-3 under Valverde.

 

Define bought badly? I’ve defintely overpaid but when you buy arguably the most important player from top clubs (ie Coutinho, Dembele, Griezman) they won’t come cheap. 
 

IMO, they haven’t bought bad players at all. They haven’t moved with the times a and somewhat tried to square peg these players into round holes. 

They were very direct under Valverde. Tika taka has gone.

 

They've bought with no idea of what to do with the players. They've bought with no idea of what their squad will look like in 12, 24, 36 months.

 

They're left with an unbalanced collection of old, hugely overpaid players. Alba, 31, contracted until 2024. Busquets, 32, 2023. Suarez? Vidal? What's the plan? They swapped a 24 year old Arthur for a 30 year old Pjanic. They have been utterly atrocious in the transfer market. 

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52 minutes ago, Scott_M said:


They still try to play a variation of Tika-Taka, it’s only the last few games this short-term coach has gone a bit rogue.

They were defintely 4-3-3 under Valverde.

 

Define bought badly? I’ve defintely overpaid but when you buy arguably the most important player from top clubs (ie Coutinho, Dembele, Griezman) they won’t come cheap. 
 

IMO, they haven’t bought bad players at all. They haven’t moved with the times a and somewhat tried to square peg these players into round holes. 

They were not. Valverde wanted them to play in a more rigid 4-4-2 and tried to implement that. They did revert to 4-3-3 at times because that's the club's "identity", but he wanted to move away from tiki taka. 

 

And as for their transfer strategy, yeah Coutinho, Griezmann and Dembele aren't "bad" but they're all disasters from a planning and style of play perspective.

 

Messi, Iniesta and Xavi used to work because Messi used to be a deadly forward who would be on the receiving end of service and he wouldn't have to drop deep so much because Xavi and Iniesta were obviously world class at building up the play. But as Messi has gotten older, he's less forward and more playmaker, so other offensive creative players like Coutinho and Griezmann are basically moot. They occupy the same positions as Messi and therefore get in his way. Now, Messi needs forwards ahead of him who make runs off the shoulder. Like Salah and Mane, for example. 

 

And as for Dembele, he's basically an immature kid who seems to have lifestyle and discipline problems that a world class footballer doesn't have. Basically, their most expensive signings were players they had no need for and they also bought a stupid kid. 

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Fernandinho, Rodri, Gundogan and De Bruyne all start in midfield. Guardiola is trying to counter-proof his team here. It's smart, that's about all that Lyon can do against them. 

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